cris34b

Is Hoid Returned?

36 posts in this topic

So, we know hoid has some hundreds of Breaths. We also know that his hair is sometimes white, sometimes not. Perhaps this is the result of dye, but perhaps not. Perhaps Hoid is Returned, and can change his appearance with this.

 

Being Returned would explain, but is not limited to;

The white hair

Immortality

Breath

The foresight he has.

 

Returned dreams are thought to be prophetic? Combine those with some mental speed and fortune feruchemy, and you know exactly where and when you need to Worldhop to.

 

Also, even if he didn't have too much Breath, he could still use other magic systems to fuel his Returned breath consumption.

 

He can probably use feruchemy to store investiture to fuel this somehow. Who knows? So many options.

 

Please, feel free to discuss, add, or rip this theory apart.

Edited by cris34b
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I would think not, since he has no problem remembering his origins.  And spirit-web wise, I don't know how well he'd be able to use Feruchemy, and Allomancy if he were a Returned, since they're all Nalthians.

 

We know that Hoid is Yolish at any rate, and pre-dates the shattering of Adonalsium.  So he would pre-date the Returned by some orders of magnitude.

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Hoid remarks somewhat... not sadly, but he remarks how easy it is for him to play music now that he has perfect pitch. It implies he learned how to play before he ever received Breath. If he were a Returned, all of his memories would be of him having enough Breath to have perfect pitch, so it doesn't really work. (Basically, what RShara said.)

 

I'd also guess that Hoid's hair is not dyed but is instead Lightweaved. The Yolish version doesn't "run out" like Surgebinding's version, from what I recall of Liar.

 

We also know that Hoid's foresight is due to Feruchemy, so while he could possibly be Returned with an incredible amount of jury-rigging (stored Feruchemical memories?), I highly doubt it.

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Maybe he found a way to trigger Returning deliberately? Then he could have (somehow) used copperminds to fill in the memory gaps. Copper Compounding, maybe?

In any case, I'd be curious to see if a Feruchemist Returned could access previous copperminfs.

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He still predates Endowment, and there's no real reason for him to have chosen to be Returned, given that he's one of the hardest-to-kill beings in the cosmere.

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On a completely unrelated note, how would copper compounding even work?

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I could only come up with two ways. Copy and paste or as they burn Copper their mind is linked to the Coppermind. Though I'm pretty sure both of those methods are wrong, they don't seem... elegant enough for Mr Sanderson.

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Coppermind compounding ..... Perfect mind copies? The archivist stores complete memories in such a short time that there is little room for time to pass and he misses a moment.

I see a light pole fall, and happen to hit a dog, I store that memory fast enough that I still see the end result and know what happened? I don't know, sounds like time travel now...

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Hmm, perhaps, since he is from the same time/place as Endowment's Shardholder, he might have gotten into some trouble on the world of Warbreaker, (Nalthis?) and somehow, mysteriously died. From there, he then called in a favor from Endowment and was Returned, but with memories. Just one way it -could- have happened.

 

However, looking over all of your comments, I think we can agree that it probably never happened in the first place. On a side note, this brought an interesting thought to mind. Does Hoid ever contact any of the Shardholders? Can he call in favors from "god" when things get too tough? Because, "Remember that time I dragged your unconscious body from that bar? No? Well I do. Give me Breath." sounds very Hoid-like to me.

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Hmm, perhaps, since he is from the same time/place as Endowment's Shardholder, he might have gotten into some trouble on the world of Warbreaker, (Nalthis?) and somehow, mysteriously died. From there, he then called in a favor from Endowment and was Returned, but with memories. Just one way it -could- have happened.

 

However, looking over all of your comments, I think we can agree that it probably never happened in the first place. On a side note, this brought an interesting thought to mind. Does Hoid ever contact any of the Shardholders? Can he call in favors from "god" when things get too tough? Because, "Remember that time I dragged your unconscious body from that bar? No? Well I do. Give me Breath." sounds very Hoid-like to me.

 

Upvote, not for the quote, but for that amazing signature.

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I can see it as a definite possibility, given that he has access to ridiculous amounts of Investiture, and so would not need the constant Breaths, and limited shapeshifting at will is dreadfully convenient.

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Except he still predates the Shattering, so he predates Endowment, and the Returned by multiple millennia.  And he has all of his memories from all of that time. 

I don't think that the Shards can change how they give their Investiture by very much.  That is, I don't think that Endowment has a choice on whether or not the Returned have their memories.  It seems in many cases that it would be easier if the Returned had their memories.  At the least, it might make them slightly less stuck up.  And if they're meant to come back for "unfinished business" it would be so much easier if they could remember their business in the first place?

Edited by RShara
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I think storing everything in a coppermind and retrieving it later would work, though - apart from the memory, they seem to keep everything significant about their personality. It's even possible Hoid figured out how to get a Divine Breath without Returning.

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Also, how exactly would he have died, given that he's one of the hardest-to-kill people in the cosmere?

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Voluntarily, in circumstances exactly set up to make him a Returned, and probably a bit of under-the table dealing with Endowment on top of that?

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That's a really big stretch if you ask me. 

 

He's already immortal, and great with disguises (not that he bothers to hide who he is very much), and likely has the sDNA to use all magic systems.  He also has Investiture from most of the magic systems we've seen.  He doesn't need to be Returned, and setting up those circumstances seems awkward and useless.

Edited by RShara
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On a side note, going off of the 

and likely has the sDNA to use all magic systems.

 

Do you think this is as a result of him knowing all of the Shards? Or is this because he is Yolish? Do Yolish people have sDNA for all magic systems, since they are, after all, all splintered from the Yolish people?

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If he has it, I'd say it was because he was Yolish.

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What I want to know, is Hoid an Elantrian?

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Why would he be an Elantrian?  What points in that direction?

 

Just because Hoid is immortal and powerful doesn't mean he's anything in particular.  He predates everything that we know about.  He doesn't need to be anything we've seen because he precedes, and supercedes, all of them.

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Why would he be an Elantrian?  What points in that direction?

 

At a guess: white hair? Hoid's pretty devoted to his cause, I imagine he could have manipulated events to get him turned into one, though without the Aonic blood, I doubt it would be easy.

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Elantrian hair is silver, not white.  But he really doesn't need to be Elantrian, or Returned, or anything else.

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Elantrian hair is silver, not white.  But he really doesn't need to be Elantrian, or Returned, or anything else.

 

Actually their hair *is* white, it's their skin that is silver.  That said, there really is no evidence that he is an Elantrian,  Actually there is evidence that he is not, since he is not a Reod-Elantrian when he shows up in Elantris.

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But he really doesn't need to be Elantrian, or Returned, or anything else.

 

I agree. He's Hoid, and that's more than enough for anyone.

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That's a really big stretch if you ask me. 

 

He's already immortal, and great with disguises (not that he bothers to hide who he is very much), and likely has the sDNA to use all magic systems.  He also has Investiture from most of the magic systems we've seen.  He doesn't need to be Returned, and setting up those circumstances seems awkward and useless.

How do we know that he isn't immortal now because of being returned? I don't necessarily think it's likely, but it is worth considering. Unless we know something from earlier in Hoid's timeline?

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