Glaedr Firnen Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Based on the last few chapters of Oathbringer, in which Adolin learns his shardblade's name (Mayalaran) and actually manages to bypass the ten heartbeats in order to summon the blade, I have come to the (potentially incorrect) conclusion that Adolin is very close to "reviving" Mayalaran, similarly to how Kaladin "revived" Syl in Words of Radiance. If and when Adolin "revives" Mayalaran, what type of spren will Mayalaran be? What order will Adolin wind up as? I personally think that Adolin will either be a Willshaper or Stoneward (only because these two orders are currently unrepresented in the stormlgiht archive,) or a Windrunner, due to his (somewhat hidden) emotional connection to Kaladin. While Renarin is a member of bridge four, one could argue, based on certain events in Words of Radiance, that Adolin is actually more attatched to Kaladin then Renarin is. I say this because after Adolin's disadvantage duel, where Kaladin jumps in to help and winds up in jail, Adolin demands for him to be let out, and, when he fails, resorts to locking himself up with Kaladin next door, saying that Kaladin hadn't done anything that he hadn't done. This is also in line with Windrunner oaths, although one could argue that it is more similar to something an Edgedancer would do. Please reply with your own personal theories, or even hopes, for what order Adolin will wind up as. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantabile21 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 The order of Radiant you end up in is tied to the spren you bond with. Maya looks like an Edgedancer spren, which is how most of us have concluded that he will be an Edgedancer. And he does have many of the character traits of Edgedancers, though what we know those to be we have mostly based on the only other Edgedancer we know, Lift. Now Lift as a person is already a bit strange, while Adolin comes across as much more 'normal', so i'm guessing we'll see some variation in what a 'typical' Edgedancer might look like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Mayalaran is a confirmed Edgedancer blade. This theory of Adolin Awakening his Blade was building a while before OB came out. Quote Kaladin al'Thor I noticed my last time reading Words of Radiance that there were several times-- vines that were on Adolin's shardblade as he summoned it. So I was wondering if maybe the Radiant who used it had was an Edgedancer? Brandon Sanderson You are right. Kaladin al'Thor You mentioned before that it would be possible to revive a dead shard[blade], but it would be very difficult-- Brandon Sanderson Very difficult. Kaladin al'Thor Like I think what you said is that it would have to be the same person that broke the bond? Brandon Sanderson That would be the-- Yeah. Kaladin al'Thor So if it was an Edgedancer's blade if he made those same oaths could potentially he… Brandon Sanderson That would most likely not be enough. Something else would have to happen. Good guess though. source 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Apart from Maya is a edgedancer blade. He also kinda practices the "i will remember those who are forgotten" ideal that edgedancers have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) I think Adolin fits the Edgedancers well, even his concern and consideration for Maya herself treating her almost more like a person than a thing in some ways even before he knew she is a dead spren fits the ideal of "remembering the forgotten". Edited August 31, 2018 by CrazyRioter 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 The fun thing about Adolin is that he would, personality-wise, fit in a whole bunch of orders. He could be a Stoneward, technically. He is stubborn and dependable, so that wouldn’t be out of the question. He could be a Windrunner as well. He protects and leads. Edgedancer would also work, as would Dustbringer, which was a very popular idea back in the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaedr Firnen Posted August 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Thanks! I had a couple ideas, but Edgedancer was, I'll admit, pretty low on the list. I personally was hoping for Windrunner, because I really like their order in particular. I now stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Personally I think we have enough Windrunner characters, what with Kaladin, and Teft being "officia"l Shardbearing Windrunners, Lopen having bonded a spren, and all the squires. But I'll admit I'm also more partial to the Edgedancers than the Windrunners so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Perhaps Brandon is hinting with that quote that something could happen that might allow Adolin to revive the Blade, but he also points out it might have to be the same person and even that is difficult enough, although perhaps he was pressured into that "--Yeah" to avoid giving too much away. Though, in my opinion it might be the purview of Bondsmiths such as Dalinar to facilitate direct connections to Honor: he has Investment almost certainly at the Splinter level at this point, he might be able to "Reforge" Connections to old Blades with sufficient closeness, Adolin included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 I feel like it's a better story if Adolin and Maya bond on their own, rather than somebody just walking in and fixing everything. Also Dalinar has already been subjected to a bunch of new powers as the plot demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Story-wise I agree, I suppose there's no Cosmere or continuity reason why they can't bond on their own. I wonder what the real power of the Bondsmith is though, that warranted that name... it seems unlikely that it was creating a Perpendicularity, that seems unique to the Dalinar situation and Honor being gone. But the descriptions of the Bondsmith from Way of Kings is limited, and their job not fully explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantabile21 Posted August 31, 2018 Report Share Posted August 31, 2018 Hehehe... which is why i have always had this pet theory that Adolin would choose to give up his very life to revive Maya, begging her to take his spirit and be whole again so she can go bond with someone else 'more worthy' and carry on fighting. He may not actually have to die - it's the intention and the move to sacrifice himself for her that restores her, just like it was Kaladin's intention to let Elhokar be murdered in Words of Radiance that killed Syl, and then his remorse and intention and actions to right that wrong that restored her. Like Syl explained, it's the death of the oaths that kills the Radiant spren, and not any specific action the Radiant may or may not have performed to betray their bond. So even though Adolin is not Maya's original bondmate, the power of his intention to perform the ultimate sacrifice for her is what heals the tears in Maya and fully restores her. So i'm thinking, the 'very difficult' thing that Brandon mentioned could be something like that, rather than anyone else swooping in and magically restoring Maya for Adolin, which would be rather a letdown in terms of his character growth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 We've discussed this before but I think what happens if he proposes that is that she metaphorically slaps some sense into him and spurs him into chosing to live and not to give up on himself, leading him swearing the First Ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantabile21 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Yup, that can definitely happen. It's the intention to die for her that restores Maya, and then she wakes up, takes her Physical form perched on his shoulder and starts speaking, waving vines and all, and gives him the shock of his life. "Now get up and stop that nonsense about not being worthy, for you're worthy enough to me. You want to be sure, say these Words..." Now my imagination is running away with me... oh the fun of imagining scenarios for a book that hasn't yet been written... we can write and rewrite them a thousand times before anything actually happens! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 I personally think he'll need to say at least the first three Ideals of the Edgedancers to 'free" her from being trapped in Blade form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Deity Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 I’ve thought about this a bit and I actually have a theory (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong). I think that Adolin has an increased Connection with his shardblade which is causing her to form a rudimentary bond with Adolin. Adolin is the main cause of this, because of the immense amount care he has taken of her. OB Spoiler: Spoiler As we’ve seen in Oathbringer Maya actually protects Adolin within the Cognitive Realm I personally believe that Maya saw herself as less of “shardblade” and more of “Adolin’s shardblade.”I’m not saying that Adolin is already bonded with Maya as a Radiant would, it would be more based on association. If Adolin actually became a radiant and it actually was an Edgedancer then maybe possibly Maya could bond with Adolin, or at least strengthen the Connection they already have. Anyway, I may be wrong about this, but it’s just my idea, and I’m open to your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 I think it's the other way round. In order to revive her he'll have to form a proper nahel bond with her. I think that process is already beginning but it's a slower and more difficult process then usual because of her current state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Deity Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 But didn’t he already bypass the nahel bond when he summoned her without the ten heartbeats? I can’t find the removed scene, but it basically is: “I am a stick.” Over and over again, but it has one “I am a stick?” in the middle of the paragraph. I wouldn’t take this as a reliable form of information, but I’m using it anyway. I think that this shows that you don’t have to form a Nahel bond with something to change its identity, which is what I think happened with Maya. It’s kinda like soulcasting except it takes much more time. The reason it takes more time is because the sword had a bond, and that bond was broken. That bond breaking killed the spren living in the sword. It saw itself as without someone to bond to, for a long while. So even if someone did have the Radiant characteristics of an Edgedancer it would take a long time for them too, and even longer if they didn’t have a personal connection to the sword. OB Spoiler Spoiler The only reason Maya protects Adolin in the Cognitive realm is because of the connection. A normal shardblade probably defend its owner like that since they are often thought of as tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoo Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) I have had a thought about reviving a dead spren. I apologize if the idea has been already shot down by logic or by a WoB. Basically a dead radiant spren has suffered a cataclysmic trauma from having its connection to the radiant severed abruptly. Windrunners and Bondsmiths share the surge of Connection. While in the former case it manifests through windsprens (pressure), in the latter if comes from the Stormfather which is a sliver of Honor. So my idea is that the other hard thing (per the above mentioned WoB) that has to happen for Adolin to revive its blade is that a Bondsmith uses connection to restore the Nahel bond. What do you think? Is this already been discussed? Happy Labor day. Don't work too much... Edited September 3, 2018 by snoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 3 hours ago, The Deity said: But didn’t he already bypass the nahel bond when he summoned her without the ten heartbeats? No. She still can't revive instantly, and she still doesn't grant him abilities. She's just less dead than other dead blades. She's healing, but not healed. I think that means a Nahel bond is forming. But he'll have to restore her to the point of being a living blade in her own right. Which means a third oath Radiant, without the guidance of a spren or the powers and bonuses the others have on the path to get there. 3 hours ago, The Deity said: The reason it takes more time is because the sword had a bond, and that bond was broken. That bond breaking killed the spren living in the sword. It saw itself as without someone to bond to, for a long while. So even if someone did have the Radiant characteristics of an Edgedancer it would take a long time for them too, and even longer if they didn’t have a personal connection to the sword. The problem is that when tge bond was broken, it ripped something out of them, and that has to be replaced, the difficulty is in forming a proper bond with something that can't think any longer Quote Jerich Is the Hoed from Elantris similar to the state of [dead] Shardblades? If so is it possible to awaken a Shardblade if the bearer speaks the oaths of the Knights Radiant? Brandon Sanderson The status is... I would say not as similar as you're probably thinking, but it does have a similarity in that two bacteria causing a disease are both caused by a bacteria, so there is a similarity there. I can imagine a sequence where a Shardblade would be reawakened, but I think it would be very difficult. It's not the same that they're in the middle of a transition, like in Elantris. Jerich Oh, okay. So you have to actually... it'd be harder. Brandon Sanderson It'd be harder, yeah. It's not the same, they're not in the middle of a transition. They have had something ripped from them, and it's very painful and it's left them mostly mindless. Jerich So they have to have that something added back? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. So what you've got going on: the spren gain-- the bond lets them have sentience in the physical plane, like they can think and all these things, and when that was ripped away from them-- imagine... (this is a very bad metaphor, it's the first one coming to my head though): imagine you had wetwear, you had a head-jack or something like that, and someone just ripped it out of your head. Jerich *stunned/horrified* Oh. Brandon Sanderson Instead of surgically operating it out. Like that's what's happened, a piece of their soul's been ripped off. source I believe the only way to restore a dead spren is to restore a bond to them because of this... And if it weren't for Adolin meeting Maya in the Cognitive, confronting what she is, and what she's become... Being horrified by it and still looking passed that and calling her friend and caring for the way she's treated... I don't think it could have happened. I don't think a dead blade has the capacity to form a bond with its wielder without the things that Adolin felt and overcame in Shadesmar. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, snoo said: I have had a thought about reviving a dead spren. I apologize if the idea has been already shot down by logic or by a WoB. Basically a dead radiant spren has suffered a cataclysmic trauma from having its connection to the radiant severed abruptly. Windrunners and Bondsmiths share the surge of Connection. While in the former case it manifests through windsprens (pressure), in the latter if comes from the Stormfather which is a sliver of Honor. So my idea is that the other hard thing (per the above mentioned WoB) that has to happen for Adolin to revive its blade is that a Bondsmith uses connection to restore the Nahel bond. What do you think? Is this already been discussed? Happy Labor day. Don't work too much... The idea of Dalinar "fixing" her through Connection hax has been brought up before. I don't like the idea both because it feels kind of lame and cheap and because I think a nahel bond is a very specific and intimate kind of connection and I'm not sure it could be created naively. This is something that needs to happen between Adolin and Maya. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoo Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 2 hours ago, CrazyRioter said: The idea of Dalinar "fixing" her through Connection hax has been brought up before. I don't like the idea both because it feels kind of lame and cheap and because I think a nahel bond is a very specific and intimate kind of connection and I'm not sure it could be created naively. This is something that needs to happen between Adolin and Maya. Yes, but Dalinar ascended and was able to recreate Unity on demand though with effort (when he supercharged Kaladin at the end of OB). It seems reasonable to assume that he has the power to fix the Nahel bond. Whether it is lame and it isn't going to happen it's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 @snoo I'm definitely with @CrazyRioterhere. If Dalinar were an ascended shard, sure he could fix them. I can buy that. With Kaladin he wasn't able to recreate the perpendicularity. He was able to pull Stormlight through himself and supercharge Kaladin, and Kaladin only, and it exhausted him. That's not the same at all. Yes he can forge bonds. And as shown with his ability to speak languages, they fade and need to be remade. A lasting Nahel bond between a spren and Radiant is something that can't be forced to happen. It needs to develop and be a choice. A forced bond is just a good way to make a spren break. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 On 31/08/2018 at 7:38 AM, Toaster Retribution said: He could be a Windrunner as well. He doesn't enjoy flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Dahak said: He doesn't enjoy flying. True but not really relevant. Which order you end up as is based on your general personality and which spren it attracts to you, not your personal preferences on powers. But I wouldn't want to see him become a Windrunner at this point, since he'd probably have to give up Maya and that would be sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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