Dalinar has been surgebinding since the Way of Kings

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

Hello!  Long time lurker, not-so-long-time poster.

 

I'm doing a very slow (I have 3.5 yo twins, so EVERYTHING I do is slow) re-read of The Way of Kings and when I was reading the scene where Dalinar was fighting the Chasmfiend, it became really apparent that he was instinctively surgebinding.

 

Points of evidence (although without quotes as I am at work and my book is at home):

 

1.)  As he is sliding / tumbling, his shardplate seems to "know" which way it should be oriented and helps him land on his feet.  No other users of shardplate seem to comment on this.

 

2.)  From Adolin's viewpoint, he notices that Dalinar is moving with a strength, speed, and grace even more than would be granted by plate alone - this seems like Kaladin's enhanced skill with the spear.

 

3.)  Adolin also states that Dalinar's shardplate seemed to be glowing.  This is similar to how KR had glowing shardplate in the Highstorm flashback.

 

And all of this was happening when Dalinar was LIVING the ideals of the KR as fully as possible - Going to rescue Elkohar - instead of when he felt the Thrill.  It all seemed too much like when Kaladin was training with the spear and Syl was initially drawn to him to not be a similar parallel.  There were hints all through WoK that Kaladin was going to be a KR, and I think this was a big clue that Dalinar was headed the same way.

 

(Of course, now with WoR, this is probably obvious.  I haven't read it [YET], and I have been TRYING to stay away from spoiler threads, but alas, I am weak and the internet is omnipresent.)

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I agree with your points though I do have some WoR specific spoiler issues with the thought in general (which I don't like because I like this concept and have had the same thoughts). Read my tag if you want, otherwise just enjoy WoR as you go through it. 

 

The main issue, and I'm not sure if it is an issue or just seems like one, is that it almost seems like potential KR are given glimpses of the power the Nahael bond can bring them pre-speaking the first oath to create the bond.

 

Dalinar and Kaladin both realize "they had been doing that for years" when it comes to using stormlight on the battle field. I point to Dalinar's shoulder as an example that he has probably been using slight bits of stormlight mindlessly and in battle to heal himself for decades of life, but the expectation remains that he will have scars from those wounds so his wounds continue to heal with scars. That would put his usage well before the time Gavilar was murdered and he started receiving visions. 

 

I guess my issue is... Kaladin had attracted a spren already. Can we consider Dalinar to have "attracted the Stormfather" in tWoK because he was being granted visions?

[Observer]

RShara is going to snipe me on this before I can edit with the quote, but we have WoB that

Dalinar and Stormfather have had something resembling a bond for a while now.

 

EDIT:

Regarding Dalinar: He said that Dalinar has had a bond with the Stormfather "for a while." He also only said one oath at the top of the Urithiru tower, not two. Dalinar conveyed a single idea in that particular oath.

--Lexington signing

Edited April 9, 2014 by Observer

[RShara]

hey

 

Also, yes, that would be the right quote, and I agree that Dalinar has been using Stormlight sporadically for a while.  I don't think decades, but definitely since the visions began.

Edited April 9, 2014 by RShara

[Observer]

So, we know he's been using Stormlight. The real question is, has his bond let him use any Surges before? Bondsmiths have what? Cohesion and something else. I'd be tempted to say that he helped hold his Plate together when fighting for Sadeas and escaping the trap, but that's more actual Stormlight usage than Surge usage. Anybody else?

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I want to say we saw some Cohesion/Tension surging when he was holding off the claw of the Chasmfiend and also in his mad dash to reach that claw as it's descending. 

 

Though those both may have just been a stormlight infused binder in action who is also wearing shardplate!

 

EDIT: Bondsmiths have Tension and Adhesion not cohesion, but either way, there could have been some Tensioning of the shardplate and some full lashing of himself to the ground when the claws were hitting him. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

<aside> I totally read those hidden bits.  I am now 10th on the list for the book in my local library.  Thankfully I have WoK to keep me busy! </aside>

 

See, that is what I thought - that when he was flying through the air and "righted" himself that it was a quick lashing to the ground which served to reorient himself.

 

And in both Kaladin and Dalinar's cases, the "glimpses" of being a KR, probably didn't start until they started living the ideals.  For Kaladin, when he started trying to protect everyone who reminded him of Tien, and for Dalinar, when he started living the codes.

 

There is a thing, in marketing, where you look at what someone is doing (in marketing, buying X instead of buying Y) but in order to get their behavior to change, you have to (even without them realizing it) get the underlying thinking / unconcious reasoning for their behavior to change.  It is the thinking that marketing can influence.

 

So, if you take that lens to it, you can see that by LIVING the ideals (e.g. the codes) Dalinar had to have started to believe in the codes.  So, for his spren to give him little preview bits of the KR power, ESPECIALLY when they are doing things that are particularly attuned to the oaths, it is not unreasonable.

 

Of course, that just made me think of positive reinforcement training - it's like the Spren are rewarding people who live by their ideals with little snippets of power, and it just takes a Looooooooooong time for people to go all "oh, hey, I just did an honorable thing and got this odd outcome" (if they're not guided by Heralds, that is).

 

Am I rambling?  I think I'm rambling now.  Time to eat lunch.

[Observer]

EDIT: Bondsmiths have Tension and Adhesion not cohesion, but either way, there could have been some Tensioning of the shardplate and some full lashing of himself to the ground when the claws were hitting him. 

 

Observer suddenly realizes that Adhesion and Cohesion are totally different things, and making that mistake was stupid.

 

I like the idea that he used it to block the Chasmfiend claw, and adhesion is something he might have been using little bits of from time to time, but I doubt it was much. Shardplate seems to mess with Lashings too much, and WoB is that sucking the Stormlignt from Shardplate is really hard, so Dalinar would have to have those spheres on his person. (If he was taking it from Parshendi or during the skirmishes, they'd have noticed and taken them off, like with Kaladin)

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Szeth is our only point of reference for the "shardplate messes with lashing/surges" and he was NOT a surgebinder. There could be a correlation there. I don't think it does mess with lashing you'd do yourself, only trying to lash others because it is heavily invested. it could be true that current shardplate messes with it because it was invested by someone else, but if the KR start creating their own plate however that is done

 

I doubt that he was pulling stormlight from his plate, I would assume that he carried spheres with him into combat in the same way that normal soldiers did, ones that were not embedded in his plate. 

[Aether]

Take a look here for an older Thread discussing this. While the topic was originally discussing Elokhar's signs of surgebinding, I there was some extended discussion on Dalinar as well, with references to the signs in tWoK. 

[Senor Feesh]

Dalinar has Adhesion, not Gravitation. He can't use Lashings to alter his perspective of gravity. He can use Stormlight to stick things to things (like Kaladin using rocks to climb the Chasm in tWoK).

Not sure yet what Tension does, but I don't see Adhesion helping him to orient himself correctly as he falls.

Question: Does holding Stormlight enhance your typical physical attributes (a la Pewter burning)? I seem to remember something of the like being mentioned. I could imagine it helping him to improve his balance and reaction times, no Surges required.

I imagine Tension was likely involved in holding up the Chasmfiend claw, but I guess we'll see.

Edit for additional: even if Dalinar could use Gravitation, it wouldn't have helped him balance. If Szeth lashed himself directly up, but didn't twist his body, he'd hit the ceiling with his head. Lashing yourself towards the ground won't make your feet magically get beneath you, it'll just make you fall in that direction (and if you already are, you'll fall faster).

Edited April 11, 2014 by Senor Feesh

[Aether]

Question: Does holding Stormlight enhance your typical physical attributes (a la Pewter burning)? I seem to remember something of the like being mentioned. I could imagine it helping him to improve his balance and reaction times, no Surges required.

The answer is yes. I don't feel like looking for any specific quotes about it, but the entire Kaladin Vs. Parshendi fight in tWoK is pretty much all the confirmation you need. Stormlight retention invigorates, focuses and enhances the user. It "perfects".

[iZarcon]

He can't use Lashings to altis perspective of gravity. He can use Stormlight to stick things to things (like Kaladin using rocks to climb the Chasm in tWoK).

Couldn't he have stuck the boots of his shard plate to the ground, thus righting himself? Seems possible.

I'm pretty sure that objects you are touching can remain stuck as kaladin would've been unable to climb the rocks as he stuck them. Just not sure that it applies something you're wearing, in particular something like shardplate that almost becomes a part of you when wearing it.

[Aether]

Couldn't he have stuck the boots of his shard plate to the ground, thus righting himself? Seems possible.

I'm pretty sure that objects you are touching can remain stuck as kaladin would've been unable to climb the rocks as he stuck them. Just not sure that it applies something you're wearing, in particular something like shardplate that almost becomes a part of you when wearing it.

The feat of catching and holding back the claw likely had something to do with his latent Bondsmith abilities, but I doubt that it would be that particular use of the Adhesion surge, as Invested objects (e. g. Shardplate) are resistant to other forms of Investiture. It would be nigh impossible to lash a Shardplate to anything.

[iZarcon]

I bow to your wisdom. Thank you for correcting me.

[Elerubard]

The feat of catching and holding back the claw likely had something to do with his latent Bondsmith abilities, but I doubt that it would be that particular use of the Adhesion surge, as Invested objects (e. g. Shardplate) are resistant to other forms of Investiture. It would be nigh impossible to lash a Shardplate to anything.

Maybe he's using adhesion on each of his hands to get a better grip, and using stormlight enhanced strength and healing to not get his arms dislocated?