[Theory] Scholar Form and Nimble Form

[Windborne Sword]

So I was listening to Words of Radiance and after finishing it, I noticed something about Venley and her scholar friends. She was really ambitious and was quite backstabby towards Eshonai and the rest of the Parshendi. No doubt Odium was influencing her in some way, but my question is how did he get her of all people to listen after all these years? My thoughts on it is that she and her friends actually found Scholar form because of it's innate ambition, and it was more easily influenced than other forms of Non-power. 

 

Epigraph on it:

Scholarform shown for patience and thought. Beware its ambitions innate. Though study and diligence bring the reward, Loss of innocence may be one's fate.

 

I'd love for this to be discussed, as I'm open to further reworking the theory if I find convincing arguments or proofs to back it up. 

 

[Argent]

Are you suggesting that Venli has been in scholarform all this time, instead of nimble, and the two just look alike?

[Crysanja]

Eshonai(?!) actualy asked her at the end of the book,

if she knew about Stormforms Spren takeover(?), and she said yes.

so i guess she was either influrenced by the captured Spren,

or before, which enabled her to get into the mindset to attract the evil Spren.

 

 

we know only about 2 forms which have the same look, that is slave-form and dullform.

the other 5 forms all look different, i would say the sample is to small to say anything.

so schoolar form could look compleatly different or not.

[Argent]

Of course, more data is always a good thing. But I can't imagine all the forms being too distinctive - the physiological changes are there to facilitate whatever activity the form is meant to assist with. Warform gets armor, mateform gets primary and secondary sex organs, nimbleform gets a lean and agile body. What could scholarform or artform possible grant over himbleform, other than different mental capabilities? 

[dyring]

Maybe they look like the aliens from Mars Attacks?

[Crysanja]

ok i have to agree that i dont know how thouse forms would look like.

i kind of think there will not be changes like growing another arm or the brain getting twice the size or so.

i could immagine that another finger could help for music, but i think its a huge change too.

 

 

however we dont know what Spren are bond for the different forms.

maybe there is a different purpose for Nimble form.

we dont know yet.

 

 

maybe art form would have much more dexterous fingers?

i guess specialized forms would have disadvantages, like mate form. 

so art form would have difficulties doing other things then art?

[Swimmingly]

Probably. I imagine they basically think so abstractly that it's difficult for them to focus on practical issues. To the point that they would appreciate the beauty of a house burning down around them before they would think of running.

[Wrath]

I would expect Artform to have enhanced hearing and vision so that they can better appreciate beauty. Perfect pitch maybe. But really the changes that I can think of for Artform are largely internal.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Wrath

[Windborne Sword]

Are you suggesting that Venli has been in scholarform all this time, instead of nimble, and the two just look alike?

Yes, as others have pointed out Dull Form and Slave form look very alike. Why would Scholar and Nimble form have anything, but different physiological changes inside the head where the brain is, which wouldn't be visible on the outside where others could easily discern the differences.  However Venley was way too ambitious and just being influenced by Odium wouldn't explain that I think. Also that epigraph was too conspicuous. Why would Brandon mention the ambition of Scholar form if it wasn't important? 

[Wrath]

I would also have thought that Scholarform would make the leap to Stormform easier in terms of the intelligence needed as well as the ambition.

[Windborne Sword]

I would also have thought that Scholarform would make the leap to Stormform easier in terms of the intelligence needed as well as the ambition.

 

I don't know if intellect is really a necessary part of changing forms however, I personally doubt it. Besides changing into Storm form really only requires a Voidspren to be present during a Highstorm, or if Hoid is right the Everstorm.

[Wrath]

I don't know if intellect is really a necessary part of changing forms however, I personally doubt it. Besides changing into Storm form really only requires a Voidspren to be present during a Highstorm, or if Hoid is right the Everstorm.

 

Well of the Listeners it was the scholars who were dedicated to figuring out how to unlock new forms. So if you managed to transform to Scholarform it would follow that the increased intelligence would make it easier to figure out other forms, including the legendary forms of power.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Maybe the same intelligence compassion mismatch that applies to King T applies to the Listeners. They get the ambition to want forms of power, but lack the compassion to keep it in check.

[Wrath]

Maybe the same intelligence compassion mismatch that applies to King T applies to the Listeners. They get the ambition to want forms of power, but lack the compassion to keep it in check.

 

That's interesting. I can't remember off the top of my head, but was there something about Dullform being more compassionate? IIRC the conscientious objectors of the Listeners willingly took on Dullform, so this is certainly possibility. Maybe it's some sort of built in balance in Rosharan life?

[Thought]

What could scholarform or artform possible grant over himbleform, other than different mental capabilities? 

 

Perhaps it would be better to ask, what could scholarform possibly grant over dullform other than different mental capabilities? Or to put it another way, what doesnimble form offer that scholarform doesn't need?

 

As each form is clearly related to the others, we can assume that they are variations on a basic parshendi shape. Nimbleform is one variation, as it scholarform, but it seems to be important to recognize that they are not variations on one another, but rather separate variations on that basic form.

 

Nimbleform isn't just delicate hands (even workform has that) or a freer mind, so we might conclude that the nimble name refers to body as well and brain. In short, they probably look more like the parshendi equivalent of dancers, gymnasts, or the sort. They add tone and litheness to the base form.

 

Scholarform probably has decent manual dexterity, and a freer mind, but what physical changes over a base form would they need? We might conclude that they would be scrawny (to reduce their metabolic needs), but they could just as easily be fat or soft. In short, there's a good chance that scholarform looks more like dullform (or whatever the "basic form" would be) than nimbleform.

[Humph]

What could scholarform or artform possible grant over himbleform, other than different mental capabilities? 

 

You mean, other than the nerd carapace pocket-protector for pens and pencils?

[Shardlet]

I know I am late to the party, but i haven't come out to play in quite a while.  When I read the Epigraph to ch. 18 (the second time through), my mind also immediately jumped to Venli.  Throughout all of Eshonai's interludes (when Venli was present) she exhibited the traits described in the epigraph.  It would also help to explain why she and her fellow scholar's were so seemingly unchanged (personality-wise as observed by Eshonai in I-13) by Stormform.  Both forms share ambition and would likely be short on compassion.  I fully endorse Venli having been in Scholarform and that at least some of her fellow scholars had tried out Stormform.  Although now that I write it, I recall the Stormfather's words to Eshonai when she went to change form.  That suggests to me that Eshonai was in fact the first to change to Stormform.  Nevertheless, i am firmly in the Venli was in Scholarform boat and I hereby espouse this theory.

[aheerema]

Are you suggesting that Venli has been in scholarform all this time, instead of nimble, and the two just look alike?

 

I also agree with this.

When Eshonai changed to storm-form, her original personality and motivations were lost. I think its possible that scholar-form had a similar effect on Venli.

[DeployParachute]

Maybe they look like the aliens from Mars Attacks?

 

You.  Have my upvote

[Plastic Misting]

IIRC Eshonai notices at one point that Venly and the scholars seem oddly comfortable with the new stormform and he wonders if they already used it at some point.

 

It would makes for her to keep Stormform a secret until the other Parshendi were so desperate they would take the risk.

[skaa]

Good theory! It's been suggested before.

 

Edit: LOL, I didn't realize this thread is already almost two months old.

Edited May 26, 2014 by skaa