Lightning Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Recently someone posted that Brandon has said that Sazed finds it difficult to do much because of the opposite natures of the two shards he possesses. Another thought I've had recently was wondering why Preservation was not just as evil as Ruin, because the desire to keep things exactly the way they are is no better than wanting to break them down into their components. I guess these two idea started floating in my brain last night because I had a really weird dream where Sazed started being corrupted by the two intents of the shards he possesses. Basically it broke his mind, because he wanted to both keep things preserved but also ruin them completely. Instead of being Harmony he changed his name to Discord. I woke up thinking "poor Sazed". 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 So far it seems that Sazed has reached a "zen state" with his Shards, and with the ball rolling that way, I doubt it'll change directions. If anything he'll just find himself totally unable to act without first venting off a chunk of one Shard, something he is already doing. Really I'm just glad that he's taking the chance to study the Cosmere, and that he's so crazy powerful that nobody seems to want to hurt little Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Congratulations. You manage to fancast John DeLancie as my Sazed voice. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Recently someone posted that Brandon has said that Sazed finds it difficult to do much because of the opposite natures of the two shards he possesses. Another thought I've had recently was wondering why Preservation was not just as evil as Ruin, because the desire to keep things exactly the way they are is no better than wanting to break them down into their components. I guess these two idea started floating in my brain last night because I had a really weird dream where Sazed started being corrupted by the two intents of the shards he possesses. Basically it broke his mind, because he wanted to both keep things preserved but also ruin them completely. Instead of being Harmony he changed his name to Discord. I woke up thinking "poor Sazed". There's a lot to indicate that Leras and Ati had a lot to do with how Preservation and Ruin acted. I suspect that both were pretty good guys, and so they took their Intents in as positive a manner as could be. To be fair, Ruin could have been... substantially worse than he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well, we know that the Shard changes the personality of the holder. It doesn't break their minds, however. I think the two differing shards may put Sazed under stress, but Preservation should preserve him... Wait, then Ruin would ruin him. Who knows. Maybe Sazed might crack. Maybe he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I also doubt that Sazed will put a 180° on the way he is acting now and maybe get even more passive. However what he has done with his extra ruin investure might push him in a different direction if it can returns to him. In the case it does (e.g. Atium) right now Sazed can get rid of it again but if he is in a state of inactivity he might not be able to. Something like that could turn out good, if it makes him decide to ruin bad guys like Ryse but it could also turn out very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Since he is capable of venting off extra Investure, I can see him intentionally overbalancing when it all hits the fan. Still, motivating himself to do so would probably take the better half of a millenium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistdork Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 The extra Investiture probably went to make the Koloss fully sentient, considering that Preservation did this for humanity first, Sazed probably let go a similar amount when he invested the Koloss. This means he doesn't have to worry that about too much Ruin because he's used up the excess and can now be ultra-zen. Anyway, Sazed, for all intents and purposes, fits his Shard very well..., but I think that the Third Trilogy might have to do with Sazed feeling that the Cosmere is out of balance enough for him to act (to an extent). Odium hates everyone and wants to destroy Shards, so all Odium needs to do is keep being himself to make Sazed eventual have to act...according to his intent. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cstryon Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Wow, Nymp, now I'm seeing the last chapter of the Cosmere being an epic battle, God of Balance Vs God of Hate.... But without hate, where's the love? Sazed's brain is going to blow! Maybe he'll give up some preservation for the survivors, so he can use Ruin, to destroy Odium. In all seriousness, I really like the idea of Sazed being part of the end story, though, I might have trouble reading a story where the main characters are God like shard bearers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I don't believe it would be much fun if Sazed was point of view (except in some sort of Interlude), but this kind of Cosmere wide event must happen at some point (and could hopefully tie in a large amount of characters) though we might have to wait for events on Yolen before this occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I can Imagine Sazed attempting to unify all the shards. After all they aren't meant to be separately and as individual pieces they have no balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 If he picked up another Shard his own current balance would be thrown out of sorts. Odium's_Shard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistdork Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 I don't believe it would be much fun if Sazed was point of view (except in some sort of Interlude), but this kind of Cosmere wide event must happen at some point (and could hopefully tie in a large amount of characters) though we might have to wait for events on Yolen before this occurs. I honestly can't see that either, (but one or two wouldn't be too much...), just that it would be fitting with his character (or the intent of the Shard) for it to occur. It would fit thematically too, I imagine that the final part might have similar themes to the first trilogy (not the same story, just similar themes that seem to make the story fit together). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlehrma Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Wow, Nymp, now I'm seeing the last chapter of the Cosmere being an epic battle, God of Balance Vs God of Hate.... But without hate, where's the love? Sazed's brain is going to blow! Maybe he'll give up some preservation for the survivors, so he can use Ruin, to destroy Odium. In all seriousness, I really like the idea of Sazed being part of the end story, though, I might have trouble reading a story where the main characters are God like shard bearers. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 475568432 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 I know it was rhetorical, but really, where is the shard of Love? If everything has it's opposite, then Odiums opposite has yet to make an appearance. Edited April 1, 2014 by Chlehrma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Perhaps since the definition of Odium is similar to complete abjection in addition to complete hatred (so he is dispossessed, alone and also unable to consider any meaningful relationship to another being), Devotion might provide a suitable opposite. Otherwise, I can't think of the opposite of Devotion (except perhaps One-Night-Stand). Odium's_Shard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 475568432 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 I know it was rhetorical, but really, where is the shard of Love? If everything has it's opposite, then Odiums opposite has yet to make an appearance. Not every shard has an opposite. The dichotomy of Ruin and Preservation is not the norm among Shards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Sazed started being corrupted by the two intents of the shards he possesses. Basically it broke his mind, because he wanted to both keep things preserved but also ruin them completely. Instead of being Harmony he changed his name to Discord. your dreams are much more coherent than my own, but i still don't think it's realistic. as far as i understand shards, if you put two shards together, you don't end up with the sum of the two. you end up with something different. otherwise adonalsium would have been just the sum of 16 desires, many of them contradicting. so harmony is neither ruin nor preservation. it neither wants to ruin nor to preserve. it want something else. something that is related to harmony and preservation, but not the same thing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Sazed certainly has a certain level of control over himself that no other Shard we've seen has accomplished. If I had to guess, that extra Ruin is being vented as Atium for Marsh to stay alive with, which means that Sazed is making active decisions regarding the amount of Investure and influence he holds. Granted, it hasn't been long enough to erase him, but it's still impressive and dissuades the OP's nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I agree with many here that what happened in my dream probably won't happen in-book in the Cosmere. I shared my dream only because I thought it was an interesting thought, and I'm glad for the comments people have given. One thing "king of nowhere" said made me question one of my assumptions. Do we know that the two shards that Sazed picked up really have been merged into a single shard? If so, why would Sazed find it difficult to act? Wouldn't he want to follow the new intent inherent in the new shard (whatever that is)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 We sure they're merged? Seems to me he's just a single person holding the two of them apart using their own intents. We only call him Harmony because Scadrial does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 That was my impression as well Observer, but apparently king of nowhere had a different theory-- I'd like to see his reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I agree with many here that what happened in my dream probably won't happen in-book in the Cosmere. I shared my dream only because I thought it was an interesting thought, and I'm glad for the comments people have given. One thing "king of nowhere" said made me question one of my assumptions. Do we know that the two shards that Sazed picked up really have been merged into a single shard? If so, why would Sazed find it difficult to act? Wouldn't he want to follow the new intent inherent in the new shard (whatever that is)? It is complicated, they can be considered one shard or two depending on the situtation. If Sazed were to die he would drop a single "Harmony" but he still has the two intents pulling on him, which means they are still distinct. (BTW I am a fervent believer that "Harmony" does not have its own inherent intent) Sazed does find it difficult to act as a result of the opposing Intents: Q: Could Sazed take down Rayse since he has two shards? A: Rayse is VERY scared of Sazed. However, given Sazed is a composite of two diametrically opposed shards, he finds it very difficult to act. (source) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It is complicated, they can be considered one shard or two depending on the situtation. If Sazed were to die he would drop a single "Harmony" but he still has the two intents pulling on him, which means they are still distinct. (BTW I am a fervent believer that "Harmony" does not have its own inherent intent) Sazed does find it difficult to act as a result of the opposing Intents: (source) Thanks! Now, my follow-up question: Why do you believe Harmony has no inherent intent? Why wouldn't the merging of the shards also merge their intents? (Did Adonalsium have multiple-personalities?) When looking at Roshar, it appears that some of the splintering of Honor has also splintered the intent: some are honorable with respect to "justice" some are honorable with respect to "oath-keeping" etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Weiry is saying that Ruin and Preservation cancel out if I'm reading correctly. WoB seems to contradict this, since he feels the pull of both Shards. EDIT: I feel the need to point out that I do in fact believe that Harmony could become a real thing. Shards are meant to fit together, but I don't think it is within Sazed's current power to reforge the broken pieces. He can hold them at once, side by side, but they're not one piece yet IMO. Edited April 1, 2014 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks! Now, my follow-up question: Why do you believe Harmony has no inherent intent? Why wouldn't the merging of the shards also merge their intents? (Did Adonalsium have multiple-personalities?) When looking at Roshar, it appears that some of the splintering of Honor has also splintered the intent: some are honorable with respect to "justice" some are honorable with respect to "oath-keeping" etc... I have a theory about this (link in my signature) about how Adonalsium cannot be put back together that really needs to be updated with some of the newer WoBs. Basically I'm inclined to believe that Adonalsium was not subject to the Intents of the Shards, that they were "created" during the Shattering. (this is supported somewhat by the fact that Adonalsium could have Shattered into Shards with different Intents than those that exist) Yes Ruin and Preservation have "merged" to an extent, but they still exist as discrete entities. Weiry is saying that Ruin and Preservation cancel out if I'm reading correctly. WoB seems to contradict this, since he feels the pull of both Shards. EDIT: I feel the need to point out that I do in fact believe that Harmony could become a real thing. Shards are meant to fit together, but I don't think it is within Sazed's current power to reforge the broken pieces. He can hold them at once, side by side, but they're not one piece yet IMO. Actually that is not at all what I'm saying. I said the two shards are still distinct, because Sazed still feels the pull of both Intents but that if Sazed were to die he would drop a single shard. Ruin and Preservation have been "intermingled" to an extent so they can still be separated but it is not an automatic thing if Sazed were to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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