Did Hierocracy heavily edit Truthwatchers?

[kari-no-sugata]

Early in WoR Shallan and Jasnah have a discussion about the Hierocracy having edited old works to suit themselves meaning that there's no "reliable" texts around. That I remember, no specific example is raised in the rest of the book - I guess because the characters don't yet know enough.

 

When Shallan finally gets to read the in-world "words of radiance" book the section on Truthwatcher says very little. Suspiciously little - even if this particular Order had been very secretive there should have been rumours.

 

I think the Hierocracy had a particular reason to heavily edit the Truthwatchers: the priests of the Hierocracy claimed to be able to have visions of the future, like actual Truthwatchers. The downfall of the Hierocracy lead to anyone claiming to be able to see the future to be regarded as extremely suspect - I doubt this was the case before since otherwise the Hierocracy wouldn't have claimed that ability.

 

If Renarin is any guide, the Truthwatchers did in fact have a particular ability to see the future. So, assuming that is correct then the Hierocracy would fear any (accurate) info on the Truthwatchers being recorded. Rather than make up something they probably just removed it - simpler and more reliable (since all books throughout the world have to be changed in a reasonably consistent way).

 

So, a boring simple theory: the Hierocracy claimed to have the similar abilities to the Truthwatchers and so heavily edited the texts on them.

 

 

PS Yes I'm assuming that Renarin wrote the countdown messages (or his Spren did). He did write a countdown of zero at the end of the book after all. But I dont remember any abilities of his being confirmed and there's been surprisingly little discussion that I can see on them.

[Kurkistan]

I doubt that the Truthwatchers had the ability to predict the future, at least in proper "precognition" terms. Even Syl, who's been out of the loop for awhile, holds that seeing the future is Odious.

[kari-no-sugata]

Hmm, I dont remember Syl equating seeing the future to Odium. I remember her not liking it but she never explained why. Honor himself seemed ok with it.

[Kurkistan]

Well she does say:
 

“I remember . . . something,” she whispered. “Something bad. Seeing what is to come—it isn’t of Honor, Kaladin. It’s something else. Something dangerous.”

[Magnanimous Taz]

That doesn't mean it's necessarily of odium. Cultivation is evidently pretty good at it according to Tanavast. Renarin's spren is at least partially of cultivation so I wouldn't be surprised if they have some foretelling ability. I see it as more knowing when/where something bad will happen, not actual visions of the future. Kind of like hoid knowing where to go and when to be there.

[Kurkistan]

Perhaps. The evidence is starting to mount, though. Syl say's Cryptics are "revolting... But not evil, I don’t think", and they look as Cultivationy as you can get.

[Magnanimous Taz]

Well from the quote above she says it's dangerous, not evil. Perhaps literal clairvoyance is of odium, but I don't really think so. Honor posessed that ability as well. He just wasn't veey goos at it.

[kari-no-sugata]

Quote from chapter 85 ("Swallowed by the sky"):

"I can see it," Renarin answers feverishly, his voice echoing in the chamber. Ardents who had been studying part of the murals looked up at him. "I can see the future itself. Why? Why, Almighty? Why have you cursed me so?"

Tiny bit later:

Shocked, Shallan took a step towards him. A sequence of numbers? All zeros.

 

I think this bit shows that the countdown to doom was from Renarin.

 

Renarin certainly thinks he can see the future. Random thought but maybe the reason why Syl doesn't like it is because this "seeing the future" is limited to attacks from Voidbringers or something?

Edited March 21, 2014 by kari-no-sugata

[dyring]

I think some of the editing atributed to the vorinism is actually from the sunmaker(did I remember name wrong here?), the dude who defeated them.

 

The victor writes the histories, and how better to destroy stuff he didnt want along then blaming it on the great evil he had defeated?

Edited March 21, 2014 by dyring

[Cheeky-eyes]

That would make sense, though what little we've seen of Renarin's abilities implies that future seeing is not limited to Odium. If the Church did use these abilities and wanted to hide what they were doing calling it evil and forbidding everyone from doing it would be the way to hide it. And that raises the question, why would they want to hide what they we doing and seeing? And what were they seeing or claiming to see?

 

And with that in mind it's not really a boring theory. ^_~

[Aleksiel]

Well, foreseeing has been proclaimed abomination (or whatever the correct phrase is) after the fall of the Hierocracy. The Sunmaker declared their visions as lies, so he would be the one to hide all info about Truthwatchers.

 

Though I'm inclined to believe the visions of the priests were more like the visions Dalinar has and not like Renarin's. But whichever it is, blame it on the Sunmaker and not the Hierocracy.

[Numb]

I don't think Renarin can actually see the future. Maybe instead he has a similiar ability to how Hoid gets around. He knows something is going to happen but can't actually see what it is going to be. Otherwise he wouldn't have been so afraid since he would have seen they would live?

[Magnanimous Taz]

That's exactly how I feel about his ability. Also, could the sunmaker have been one of the heralds, maybe ishi? Or whichever one was the herald of wisdom? They oppressed knowledge and altered recorded histories. Seems to fit their penchant for perverting their duties. Just throwing it out there.

[thejopen27]

I think that it was the sunmaker who edited the histories as well.  I think that the Hierocracy wasn't what we've been led to believe it was.  It's possible that the lighteyes subjugated the church and then vilified them in their histories.