How to Revive a Spren [WoR + Warbreaker spoilers]

[Scriptorian]

There are obviously WoR spoilers, as well as some content from Warbreaker. If you have not read either, GO AND READ THEM NOW. 

 

Anyway, I had a theory as to how one might go about reviving a dead spren, assuming their ex-Radiant is dead and decomposing. As I understand it, the spren is dies essentially because when the Radiant breaks his/her oaths, the bond is broken, thus removing whatever part of the spren is granting sentience. So what other magic system is known to have sentience-granting capacity, of which we have a lovely example right in WoR? Awakening.

 

(As a side note, I did consider Hemalurgy, but it does't take long to realize all the problems associated with that particular method).

 

I bet the key to reviving dead spren lies in Breath. We know all it takes to restore a dead human to some semblance of their old life is one Breath, and a thousand can make even an inanimate object sentient. I am completely sold on this idea. The only questions I see are how much Breath would actually be need, and whether the spren would regain its memories. I'm thinking it wouldn't require much, the spren isn't actualy dead, just stuck, and since Syl regained her personality and memories without issue, i don't expect the latter to be a problem either. 

 

If you still don't like the idea, just imagine Adolin holding his shardblade, preparing to duel Odium's champion, when he softly says: "Life before death. My life to yours, my breath become yours." Flash! Whoosh! Ta-dah, brand new radiant!

 

Edit: Here is the relevant WoB

Q:  Is it possible then to reawaken a shard blade if that blade is wielded by someone who speaks the oaths of a Knights Radiant?

A:  (Thinking)...Yes, but it would be extremely difficult.  The spren in a shardblade are not trapped in a state of mid-transformation like the Elantrians.  They are stuck in an agony cycle after having a significant portion of their consciousnesses ripped out of them.  The Nahel bond is what allows Spren to think on [the] material plane and that has been torn away.  It would be like having a data jack installed and then having someone come up to your head and rip it out of your head.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Serendipity

[Morsk]

Something like this is already happening. I don't know if that's good for the theory or not. It could mean they just have to try harder, or it could mean it's already been tried.

There's a Returned on Roshar, using Stormlight to stay alive instead of Breath. So they're similar. And the point of putting gems on the Shardblades is to make them just barely alive, for ten heartbeats, to be summoned. So they're already bringing the Shardblades back to life (barely) with something like Breath. Maybe if they got a huge gemheart and had someone speak the First Ideal. Or they just have to talk about it to Vasher, and he'll figure out a Command like yours. Maybe the First Ideal is a Command already.

[Releaser]

Something that struck me. Was at the end of the Adolin and Kaladin vs 4 duel. When Adolin does the Lastclap on Relis:

 

"Relis dropped the Blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his had to his head. 'What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!' "  

 

then he ran away screaming 

 

What if that Spren just needed CPR of sorts.

 

I do like the idea of using Breath to re-awaken them. 

[Rust and Ruin]

Something that struck me. Was at the end of the Adolin and Kaladin vs 4 duel. When Adolin does the Lastclap on Relis:

 

"Relis dropped the Blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his had to his head. 'What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!' "  

 

then he ran away screaming 

 

What if that Spren just needed CPR of sorts.

 

I do like the idea of using Breath to re-awaken them. 

 

Sorry, I think that was because it was Kaladin who did the lastclap, not Adolin:

 

 

Kaladin arrived. Relis spun around and swung at him instead.

Kaladin skidded to his knees in the sand, momentum carrying him forward a short distance as the Blade fell. He raised his hands and snapped them together.

Catching the Blade.

Screaming.

[Releaser]

Sorry, I think that was because it was Kaladin who did the lastclap, not Adolin:

 

Oops mistyped, I meant Kaladin.

I was referring to the Spren talking to Relis accusing him of killing it. Because it was Kaladin who touched the blade and "woke it up" maybe.

[marianmi]

spren talk to no-one, or accuse. they are... "dead"...

[Velnica]

Oops mistyped, I meant Kaladin.

I was referring to the Spren talking to Relis accusing him of killing it. Because it was Kaladin who touched the blade and "woke it up" maybe.

I was under the impression that both Kal and Relis heard the yell. Relis might've just got the echo of the blade as it's screaming at Kaladin (since he's the KR and KRs 'killed' the sprens).

 

Wonder if this little tidbit of info maybe of interest to anyone else in the kingdom.

[Gary Singer]

Adolin talks to his blade. I'm thinking it's likely he may be able to form a bond with it and revive it. The spren aren't really dead, but mindless.

[Luke.spence]

spren talk to no-one, or accuse. they are... "dead"...

 

That's what leads me to believe that Syl wasn't truly dead in the way that the old KRs' spren were dead. I'm pretty sure Kaladin wouldn't have been able to hear her conversation with the Stormfather, and that she wouldn't have been able to have that conversation in the first place if she was really as dead as the spren of old.

[+Aletus]

On that, the bond operates in two ways, Kaladin to Syl and Syl to Kaladin, he broke his oaths to her, but not she to him, if that makes more sense. It does to me. A part of her was still fighting for him, but we saw from her dialogue at the end with the Stormfather, that she was well and good on the 'other side,'

[BaoTheWyld]

 

I was under the impression that both Kal and Relis heard the yell. Relis might've just got the echo of the blade as it's screaming at Kaladin (since he's the KR and KRs 'killed' the sprens).

 

Wonder if this little tidbit of info maybe of interest to anyone else in the kingdom.

 

I assumed it was Pattern that they heard, trying to distract them. Didn't Shallan have him go down to do that?

[Wileygirl13]

I thought that perhaps Renarin manifested his talent of illusion and sent Relis a vision that freaked him out.

Kallidan caught the blade, but maybe what Relis saw was him killing Kallidan.

Radiants seem to manifest their abilities in stressful situation... For Renarin this moment seemed pretty stressful...

[adbf]

Or probably to revive the Shardblade of some past Radiant, you have not only to just re-vow the oaths for the respective order, but you have to redeem somehow the sin of that particular Radiant instead of him. After all the spren had a bond not just to any member of humankind, but to a particular person, and the spren was betrayed by that particular person, not by somebody else. Probably you have to get as close as possible to the character and life circumstances of that past Radiant, maybe even find some spiritual connection to the deceased, so that you redeem his specific betrayal. It’s looking very hard, but that’s what Brandon sais - it has to be extremely hard.

 

The case with Relis means that there is an approach - touch to the shardblade by a true Radiant makes the zombi-blade to remember. But the association is still to vague, the spren can remember only that there was killing. But since Relis had his own bond to the Shardblade, the bond that modern shardbearers have and that makes bright the eyes of an darkeye, so the reaction from the touch to Kaladin was broadcasted also to the other bond, to the bond of Relis. On Relis the shock should be even stronger - he had a more intimate bond than Kaladin’s mere touch, Relis was the one who could summon the Blade into the physical realm - his bond is stronger, therefore the effect on him is stronger too. Maybe this would be the way to revive a zombiBlade - by sharing the right bonds.

[Seloun]

   

I assumed it was Pattern that they heard, trying to distract them. Didn't Shallan have him go down to do that?

 

 

Pattern appears to have distracted Abrobadar by moving around on the ground:

 

 

Adolin had to turn to fight the other Shardbearer near him. On the other side of the arena, the fourth man— the one who had been “fighting” Renarin— was waving his sword at the ground for some reason. He looked up and saw how poorly things were going for his allies, then left Renarin and dashed across the arena floor.

 

It's not impossible that Pattern was somehow involved, but given how similar the screaming is to the description of the other Shardblades touched by Surgebinders, it seems unlikely it's a coincidence. As far as I can recall, the only other situation where a dead Shardblade is touched by both a Surgebinder and the person it's bound to is Renarin's blade, and only by the virtue that he qualifies as both. It seems reasonable to assume given the evidence for now that everyone touching a dead Shardblade in contact with a Surgebinder would hear the screaming.

[Velnica]

Whelp my explanation got ninja'd haha. Yes Pattern was helping Shallan with Teleimaging, but the fact that the screaming was only heard when Kal touched the Shardblade was a dead giveaway of the dead spren screaming. Curious though why Relis actually heard words, but IIRC other times the KR just heard pure screaming.

[Velnica]

Edit: phone, Y U double post?

Edited March 17, 2014 by Velnica

[Velnica]

Edit: ugh it triple posted... Mod can you pretty please help delete? >.<

Edited March 17, 2014 by Velnica

[PudgyNinja]

Something that struck me. Was at the end of the Adolin and Kaladin vs 4 duel. When Adolin does the Lastclap on Relis:

 

"Relis dropped the Blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his had to his head. 'What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!' "  

 

then he ran away screaming 

 

What if that Spren just needed CPR of sorts.

 

I do like the idea of using Breath to re-awaken them. 

 

I got the impression that those spren are pretty much always screaming, 24/7 - damaged and broken as they are.  Just usually, nobody can hear them.  

 

Those who have bonded with spren can hear them, probably because of their connection to the cognitive realm.  What Relis got was likely just an echo, due to his contact with Kaladin.

 

As far as the original topic goes - I do think it's possible and probably all it needs is a bond, just like we saw with Kaladin and Syl.

 

Unfortunately, having being driven mad, "killed," and trapped in a blade, those spren can't go looking for humans that are appropriate to bond with now that their original humans are gone.  They probably do try to bond with anybody who takes up their Blade, but given what we've seen of Shardbearers so far, it's not surprising that none have been suitable.  

 

Adolin may be forming a bond with the spren in his Blade.  I think it may even be responsible for his murder of Sadeas.  If he was bonding with a half-mad spren, just emerging from years of endless torture, who's ideal involved justice or something like that, I can see it causing him to strike out like that.