Answering letter to Hoid?

[Pattern]

I collected the chapter headings of part 4, which seem to make an answering letter to the letter from Way of Kings.

I'll address this letter to my "old friend", as I have no idea what name you're using currently.

Have you given up on the gemstone, now that it is dead? And do you no longer hide behind the name of your old master? I am told that in your current incarnation you've taken a name that references what you presume to be one of your virtues.

This is, I suspect, a little like a skunk naming itself for its stench.

Now, look what you've made me say. You've always been able to bring out the most extreme in me, old friend. And I do still name you a friend, for all that you weary me.

Yes, I'm disappointed. Perpetually, as you put it.

Is not the destruction we have wrought enough? The worlds you now tread bear the touch and design of Adonalsium. Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain.

My path has been chosen very deliberately. Yes, I agree with everything you have said about Rayse, including the severe danger he presents.

However, it seems to me that all things have been set up for a purpose, and if we - as infants - stumble through the workshop, we risk exacerbating, not preventing, a problem.

Rayse is captive. He cannot leave the system he now inhabits. His destructive potential is, therefore, inhibited.

Whether this was Tanavast's design or not, millennia have passed without Rayse taking the life of another of the sixteen. While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this.

He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become.

I suspect that he is more a force than an individual now, despite your insistence to the contrary. That force is contained, and an equilibrium reached.

You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention.

The cosmere itself may depend upon our restraint.

 

So, what do you think of it? Who is right? Hoid oder Mr. X?

Edited March 4, 2014 by Pattern

[bartbug]

It's the Dragon, I'd say. The reply. If the next books continue this back and forth of letters, that could be really cool.

[marianmi]

The Dragon replies to Hoid.

 

He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend.

 

Anyone else thinks Dragon and Hoid splintered Adonalsium?

[Vortaan]

The Dragon replies to Hoid.

 

 

 

Anyone else thinks Dragon and Hoid splintered Adonalsium?

 

I'll wager all of the Sixteen had a hand in it. The question would be why. There's also the reference that Rayse -wanted- to be Odium... was he perhaps some kind of religious zealot before, akin to Dilaf?

[Lady Radagu]

From Hoid's letter, I would guess that he was more of a sociopath than a zealot. Someone who despised others and had no qualms in expressing his disdain for humanity, his delight in their suffering. If volunteers, or shard preferences were solicited when the various vices and virtues were distributed, he'd have been first in line for odium.

[RShara]

He might have also seen hatred as the most powerful of the shards.

[marianmi]

Erm... Frostlands?

[Vortaan]

From Hoid's letter, I would guess that he was more of a sociopath than a zealot. Someone who despised others and had no qualms in expressing his disdain for humanity, his delight in their suffering. If volunteers, or shard preferences were solicited when the various vices and virtues were distributed, he'd have been first in line for odium.

 

I don't know how much we can trust Hoid here. He has some kind of grudge against Rayse, and is apparently so driven by it that he's spent at least 4 millenia trying to figure out how to kill him.

[taveren]

anyone else think the gemstone is from liar of partinel those gems that you could talk to called  Aethers there was also a pink gemstone in the ghostblood lair could be connected

[HydrogenAlpha]

anyone else think the gemstone is from liar of partinel those gems that you could talk to called  Aethers there was also a pink gemstone in the ghostblood lair could be connected

You could be right with this. I wondered about the connection between the pink gemstone and the rose-colored Aether-stones, too. It's  pretty likely that Hoid takes magical artifacts of every single planet he visits with him... would be logical if he did the same thing on his home planet Yolen.

A bit longer ago there was this theory that Hoid is actually a Aether who hijacked the body of Midius and now we have some solid evidence on this. It's pretty unlikey nonetheless.

[Luke.spence]

Could the stones be an Atium bud? I know they're at least partially crystal (I think, I'd have to go back and re-read about them).

Edited March 6, 2014 by Luke.spence

[HydrogenAlpha]

Atium had the form of silver pearls. They "grew" in the center of crystalline geodes.. but i can't remember the color of them. 

[Luke.spence]

Atium had the form of silver pearls. They "grew" in the center of crystalline geodes.. but i can't remember the color of them. 

 

That was my issue as well. I couldn't remember if their color was ever mentioned.

[ranstang94]

Atium had the form of silver pearls. They "grew" in the center of crystalline geodes.. but i can't remember the color of them. 

I don't believe the color was ever mentioned, since the pits where always kept pitch dark...

[Lady Radagu]

I don't know how much we can trust Hoid here. He has some kind of grudge against Rayse, and is apparently so driven by it that he's spent at least 4 millenia trying to figure out how to kill him.

Yes, Hoid has a grudge, but The Dragon agrees with Hoid about everything Hoid said regarding Rayse. I'm assuming that includes the general personality assessment.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

How is Rayse held captive?

If he is held captive, as the author of the letter suggests, then how would he get to Hoid? Or is Hoid referring to another being, perhaps an unmade?

[Cayden]

The Oathpact is the only thing I can think of that would hold him to the Solar System, maybe part of him dying was to bar Odiums exit. Captive is an interesting term.

 

You could have an entire planet as a prison if you had the resources for it, that would not stop a killer traveling half way around the planet after you, not would it if the limit was a solar system. I think Hoid is in danger if he is discovered anywhere in the Greater Rosharian solar system.

 

its interesting though I had originally wondered if the first letter was to Sazed, but the response kind of destroys that idea. I wonder whom or what it was to though, whether you guys were right about this "dragon" person or whether we are all off base.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

The Oathpact is the only thing I can think of that would hold him to the Solar System, maybe part of him dying was to bar Odiums exit. Captive is an interesting term.

 

You could have an entire planet as a prison if you had the resources for it, that would not stop a killer traveling half way around the planet after you, not would it if the limit was a solar system. I think Hoid is in danger if he is discovered anywhere in the Greater Rosharian solar system.

 

its interesting though I had originally wondered if the first letter was to Sazed, but the response kind of destroys that idea. I wonder whom or what it was to though, whether you guys were right about this "dragon" person or whether we are all off base.

I don't know how to find it, but I think the dragon is WoB?

[Darkarma]

Well if anything this proves the cosmere has Intergalactic email and that Hoid's data rates must be of the second heightening. The 17th shard are just bill collectors with poor customer service training.

 

Seriously though, how is he sending his owls?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Darkarma

[Aleksiel]

The letter actually explains very well to Hoid why interfering would be wrong, but it doesn't indicate why Hoid thinks the pillars of the world might shatter (or something of the sort from Hoid's letter). I didn't expect such a reasonable answer, I thought there will be hate and bitterness towards Hoid, some petty excuses and not much logic behind the refusal of support. It makes me wonder why Hoid is so certain a disaster is coming. He didn't explain this in his latter,

 

 

I am told that in your current incarnation you've taken a name that references what you presume to be one of your virtues.

This is, I suspect, a little like a skunk naming itself for its stench.

 

 This really got me laughing when I read it.  

[loke13]

The letter actually explains very well to Hoid why interfering would be wrong, but it doesn't indicate why Hoid thinks the pillars of the world might shatter (or something of the sort from Hoid's letter). I didn't expect such a reasonable answer, I thought there will be hate and bitterness towards Hoid, some petty excuses and not much logic behind the refusal of support. It makes me wonder why Hoid is so certain a disaster is coming. He didn't explain this in his latter,

 

 

 This really got me laughing when I read it.  

I thought he was using petty excuses it seemed like to me he was just stuffing his fingers in his here and hoping that the problem resolves itself as he brushes aside Hoid's concerns and practically ignored the fact that Odium has already killed 3 shard bearers and might on his way to kill a fourth one.

[Gamma Fiend]

So is there just some sort of Cosmere-wide Fedex mail delivery system?

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

So is there just some sort of Cosmere-wide Fedex mail delivery system?

Well if spren are the remnants of the power of creation and human perception can change them, then I don't know why you couldn't just think about a shadesmare FedEx and have the spren be the couriers.

[Bramble Thorn]

How is Rayse held captive?

If he is held captive, as the author of the letter suggests, then how would he get to Hoid? Or is Hoid referring to another being, perhaps an unmade?

I have been on this forum told there is a WoB that in the past, Odium was not heavily invested on Roshar, but currently he is, and that it would be difficult to withdraw that investiture. Source Anyone?

Presumably, he was not invested when he Shattered Devotion and Domination on Sel, but has become so since, and cannot leave, or would be severely weakened in a Shard vs. Shard conflict elsewhere in the Cosmere if he left the Greater Roshar Solar System. So the entire Solar System is the "prison" where he could get to Hoid, who is in the prison with him, albeit just visiting.

The author of the Response is Wrong, and probably also an Idiot. Because non-intervention basically equates to the status quo, and status quo is set to release Odium into the wider Cosmere. My reasoning follows...

The Heralds were good men and women, for a long long time. But now, they are broken. Dangerously broken, broken in a way that serves Odium and weakens the defenders of Roshar.

Some of them have a plan to keep the Desolations from returning, which involves keeping surgebinders from returning. But their plan, I do not think it works the way they think it works. A Metaphor: The Desolation is a recurring game between to teams, Team Roshar, and Team Odium. Their "solution" to the Desolations is an unspoken gentleman's agreement that when a Desolation is scheduled to occur Team Odium will not show up... and in exchange someone on Team Roshar gets their legs broken. And as long as the bone breakings continue, Odium stays in the bleachers watching the opposition shoot itself in the foot. This continues until the entire roster of team Roshar has broken arms and legs, as well most of those likely to be called up to play. That happened a while ago. Most of the Damage the Heralds could have done to hinder Team Roshars chances of victory, Odium has allowed them to do.

So while Odium might get a chuckle about silver-cheek murdering a surgebinder for being the unknowing accomplice to a murder 40 years ago, it is not going to stop him from bring the entirety of Team Odium to the field where all they are facing is a bunch of broken armed, broken legged fools who he thinks have no chance of winning, and finishing the Heralds work.

Non intervention lets Odium Win. And I think winning lets Odium Shatter Cultivation and/or withdraw his investiture from Roshar (probably with unpleasant consequences for Roshar) and sets him free into the wider Cosmere.