WitSpren Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Mister T - I can't decide if it is intentional or not - I wonder if he is the head of the Ghostbloods? Darkness - Seems to be working for Odium, but seems to think that by eliminating KR candidates that he is working to stop Desolutions. Has a strange reverence for the KR of old. He also has a strange sense of Justice. Added note - he seemed to be involved with Parshendi killing King Galiver and somehow with the assassin. Ghostbloods - Not enough infor on these to be sure, but my gut feeling is that they are Odium agents. Parshendi - Apparently thought that they would be preventing a Desolation/return of their God (Odium?) by having the king killed. Now they are considering persuing the Stormform. They seem to be significantly manipulated by Odium - even though they clearly were trying to avoid it. Adherents - seriously being manipulated by Odium. Have law/rule do not try to predict the future because it is of the Voidbringers. So just because Desolations have occured every few hundred years for Thousands and Thousands of years is no reason to use Voidbringing logic to the issue & try to predict when the next one will be. Let's also erase and rewrite history to make it even harder! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Szeth seems like he's feeling rather odious in his later chapters, wouldn't you agree? Disagree on Darkness/Mr. T, as they seem to be the very epitome of non-Odious. Taravangian is guilty, and Darkness has no emotion. Ghostbloods, maybe. Parshendi... maybe. They're worried about their gods (plural), which might refer to all the Shards. Hard to say if Stormform is Odious or not. If they need to use angerspren/stormspren to turn into it though, guessing they're falling into Odium's hands. Plus, Odium probably helped that one Parshendi research the right form... A name you didn't bring up is Sadeas. He's like, a thrill junky. Odium's #1 servant, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 adolin too, after his 1st WoR duel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 When the Parhendi were talking about preventing their 'dark gods' from returning, I instantly thought of the Heralds. If the Thrill is of Odium, then the Alethi are immediately suspicious, even though it's unconsciously. And I'd say Gavilar is the main suspect here. What was he doing that provoke the Parshendi? What's with the black sphere? Which would make Ghostblood the good guys (in a way) since he suspected them to have send Szeth. Mr.T... I don't know. Depends on what his real plan is. I can't say much on him, but probably not an evil mastermind. Darkness could be delusional enough to be manipulated into helping Odium while sincerely thinking he's helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kersplattle Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I think it highly likely that the "Thrill" is a device or tactic of Odium's to encourage killing and violence. It is used to tempt people into a love of or desire for violence and killing. I see the surge of it that Adolin feels in his duel as an attempt by Odium to pervert Dalinar's quest for unity, maybe part of the story for Adolin is his struggle to resist the thrill; Sadeas has given in to it, will Adolin also do so, a good storyline. And one with a "redemption" aspect, Adolin partially succumbs and then heroically throws it off. That Dalinar has rejected Odium in some way, it wasn't an especially concious act either, is signalled by the thrill nauseating him, therefore there is some other "power" or influence that does that is my conjecture. Is it the remants of Honour, or Cultivation, or someone/something else ? Will this extend to Adolin ? But I see that violent surge in Adolin as a ploy by Odium to subvert the attempt to organize that Dalinar is leading. So I see Sadeas as a (possibly unknowingly) agent of Odium in so far as supporting the wish to undermine the current Alethi leadership. I read the part of that chapter as though he now intends to make himself King, and perhaps to unify Alethia under him, would that then work in opposition to Odium ? Perhaps it is just that with the timing we know off, he couldn't possibly conquer and unite in time to resist so represents a disruptive factor that supports Odium. I would read Taravagnian as believing what he does, something he dreamed up when in his "super wise" state, the overall plan we don't yet know. It does involve destroying the other nations by creating chaos via the destruction of their leadership. He thinks he acts for the good of all, is it to prevent the desolation arriving in the same way that Darkness does and the Parshendi seem to, by preventing the emergence of the KR abilities and spren binding which will in some way summon the desolation ? And yet the spren see something and are spontaneously organizing to create bonds. So I see Mr T as probably an unwitting Odium assistant if he assists at all. That said, there do seem to be two contradictory efforts underway; one to avoid the desolation by preventing it coming (Darkness, Mr T ?, Parshendi) and another to prepare for it instead and to resist and win it (Dalinar, spren, Cultivation ?). This second group seems to work on the assumption that the desolation cannot be prevented, the appearance of Taln would suggest that they are now correct, but were they ? And why did the spren decide (and some months or years ago) to start to take action ? Two more weeks ! Edited February 19, 2014 by Kersplattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I disagree Darkness strikes me more as an Iron Fist of Justice type.. He seems to be working against or trying to Prevent another desolation in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I disagree Darkness strikes me more as an Iron Fist of Justice type.. He seems to be working against or trying to Prevent another desolation in my opinionThe thing about an iron fist is that it can be very dangerous if misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 The thing about an iron fist is that it can be very dangerous if misguided. This is what i mean!! Thank you!! When a belief is taken to the extreme ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Darkness pursues a target wholeheartedly. He is a "man" of principle. Such behavior is nothing like "odium", if my grasp of the english language doesn't misguide me. I am no native speaker, though; so bear with me. "Odium" does not mean "violence" per se. "Dishonorable" yes, so the Thrill is of Odium, but not because of the violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) What about the Ten Fools. From the epigraphs it sounds like at least one of them is in the Karbranth Hospital. “Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die!” Dated Shashabev, 1173, 8 seconds pre-death. Subject: a darkeyed dock-worker in his forties, father of three. Edited February 20, 2014 by AG Rooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) That about the Ten Fools. From the epigraphs it sounds like at least one of them is in the Karbranth Hospital. I find this doubtful. The Unmade/Ten Fools (are they the same?) appear to be literal monsters. Nohadon remarks that Yelig-nar killed all of his wordsmen, and another epigraph mentions that the wails of those it consumed accompanied its voice whenever it spoke. It's possible they're human and in Taravangian's hospital, but they seem quite a bit too violent to do that without us knowing they're there. Edited February 20, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I find this doubtful. The Unmade/Ten Fools (are they the same?) appear to be literal monsters. Nohadon remarks that Yelig-nar killed all of his wordsmen, and another epigraph mentions that the wails of those it consumed accompanied his voice whenever it spoke. It's possible they're human and in Taravangian's hospital, but they seem quite a bit too violent to do that without us knowing they're there. I feel like someone using surges at the top of their game could create similar destruction. The KR and Heralds were essentially human and wielded great power. I'm hoping we overtly encounter one in WoR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwfeather Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Regarding Darkness, I believe the current theory is that he is Herald Nalan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 While a relatively minor character I think Roshone could be an agent of Odium. The dinner scene with his eyes almost seeming to glow is suspicious. That and Roshone's son commenting about how his father uses oil lamps to light the hallways. A kind of sideways way of telling us that he doesn't use stormlight like many brightlords do. Why would he not use stormlight? Cost? I didn't get the impression that he was that poor. It just seems like a classic Mr. Sanderson way of slyly throwing a hint out there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kersplattle Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hmm, could Mr T be one of the "ten fools", we have WOB that he's not a herald, but it would be a B.S. move to make that distinction. Unlikely, but possible. The reference to Re Shephir watching someone die, could be a clue ? BTW, I must have missed it, can someone point out where the reference in WOK is to the "ten fools" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiManiak Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 BTW, I must have missed it, can someone point out where the reference in WOK is to the "ten fools" ? The term comes up in WoK a few times, usually in a deprecating manner: "We must have seemed of the ten fools, charging away like that." (Unity, Chapter 12). In a Kaladin flashback, Kal actually names one: "He felt like one of the ten fools- specifically Cabine, who acted like a child though he was adult." (Sides, Chapter 37) If you're going along with the Tor WoK reread, they just reread Chapter 58, which has it come up 2 times. Quick e-search shows the term come up a total of 6 times: (Chapters 12, 28, 37, twice in 58, and 69). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 While a relatively minor character I think Roshone could be an agent of Odium. The dinner scene with his eyes almost seeming to glow is suspicious. That and Roshone's son commenting about how his father uses oil lamps to light the hallways. A kind of sideways way of telling us that he doesn't use stormlight like many brightlords do. Why would he not use stormlight? Cost? I didn't get the impression that he was that poor. It just seems like a classic Mr. Sanderson way of slyly throwing a hint out there. Very interesting. But I don't remember where that was. Could you tell me where it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Very interesting. But I don't remember where that was. Could you tell me where it was? Chapter 37 : Sides Specific quotes. "Roshone fell still, skewer held limply in his hand, brilliant green eyes narrowed, lips pursed tight. In the dark, those eyes almost seemed to glow." Page 545 "...don't know why Father insists on keeping everything so dreary around here all the time. Oil lamps in the hallways? Could he be any more provincial?" Page 547 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Chapter 37 : Sides Specific quotes. "Roshone fell still, skewer held limply in his hand, brilliant green eyes narrowed, lips pursed tight. In the dark, those eyes almost seemed to glow." Page 545 "...don't know why Father insists on keeping everything so dreary around here all the time. Oil lamps in the hallways? Could he be any more provincial?" Page 547 Thank you!! Any you correct, glow was even put in different script!!! So what is going to happen when Roshone comes to Kal for KR training? Wasn't there a back cover exert or something for WoR specifically saying that Kal was going to lead the new KR order or something like that? Or is Roshone already fully trained and on the other side - an agent for Odium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thank you!! Any you correct, glow was even put in different script!!! So what is going to happen when Roshone comes to Kal for KR training? Wasn't there a back cover exert or something for WoR specifically saying that Kal was going to lead the new KR order or something like that? Or is Roshone already fully trained and on the other side - an agent for Odium? I suspect it is some form of Odium based investiture. I can't really see Roshone ending up as a member of the Knights Radiant. He practically exudes disdain, malice, and bitterness and seems to take pleasure in making everyone else's life worse. In any case at the moment it is still just a strong suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbereth Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I like the Taravangian idea. He seems to fit perfectly as the head of the Ghostbloods. The hints about Roshone are interesting, too. I never caught those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I suspect it is some form of Odium based investiture. I can't really see Roshone ending up as a member of the Knights Radiant. He practically exudes disdain, malice, and bitterness and seems to take pleasure in making everyone else's life worse. In any case at the moment it is still just a strong suspicion. OH I definately agree. Plus - If he was able to hold Stormlite that early, then when he got injured with his son and they took him to Kal's father. He should have been able to absorb the Stormlite from the spheres that they used for lighting and be healed bu the Stormlite. So I think that we can rule him out. - but it is very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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