Popular Post Chaos Posted May 22, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Hey everyone! For the past few years there has been a lot of discussion on the Words of Brandon situation. The Theoryland Interview Database served our fandom well but it has always been more a part of the Wheel of Time fandom and has grown harder to keep up-to-date as our fandom has grown and aged. The subject of a new database has been brought up a number of times but myself and the other admins have either remained quiet in those discussions or been unhelpfully vague. And there is a reason for that. We have been working on something. In fact, we've been working on a replacement for a long time, and we've iterated our implementation for a while. We've scrapped a few bad implementations, so we did not want to prematurely announce something that wasn't good. But, we have a system now. It's real, and it's pretty cool, so it's time to start talking about this with you all. The software is codenamed Palanaeum (though that won't be the name of this database; it's the software's name), and it's been made by coder extraordinaire Mestiv, who you may have noticed has a new rank on the site due to his tireless work on it. Our goals with a new WoB Archive have been to not just replicate the Theoryland Interview Database, but add new features and improve upon Theoryland. Let's talk about what Palanaeum does. Submitting interviews open to everyone A core problem with the Theoryland DB is that only a select few input things, which means it is almost always outdated. (Turns out, Brandon talks a lot.) The solution is obvious: we need a system that allows the many awesome and enterprising members of the community to contribute. Palanaeum does this. Anyone can contribute, input new events and entries, and suggest changes to old things. Transcribing audio The workflow for transcribing audio has been clunky. The audio has to be uploaded and then there's a Google doc where transcribers work at it, with the link to the Google doc being buried in an Event topic somewhere. We can imagine that in a year or two it can be very hard to find the original audios and the transcription Google doc. This is not sustainable. Palanaeum puts that entire process in-house. You can upload audio and transcribe it within the system. You can create "snippets" of audio that links the timestamp of the audio to the question/answer you are writing. Since the audio and transcription are connected in the system, this means for new interviews inputted this way, you'll have a Play button next to an entry which will just play the audio source of that exact question. We intend to host all this audio forever, so it won't be lost to the aether. It will be in our system and you'll always be able to find it. We also intend to allow people to do similar things with video sources, but video is significantly more costly to host, so you'll have to upload videos--or link to videos--on YouTube, then transcribe them similarly. Huge props to Mestiv for creating this crazy feature. I wasn't sure this would be possible, but it absolutely works. It's hard for me to describe to you how awesome this actually is. Search that doesn't suck Lastly, there's another problem with Theoryland: it's really hard to actually find the thing you want, so obviously we want to have a search feature that works well. (This is one of the core reasons we wanted to build a new system in the first place.) Search is complicated but we have an implementation we like. It will have a lot of search filters as well to narrow down your search, too. A big benefit to us doing this in-house is that the search algorithm can be iterated on. If we launch and you think it's being weird and not giving you reasonable results, we will work on it. We don't have to say, "well, that's how it works. Sorry about that." Since there's an account system on Palanaeum, we want you to be able to favorite particular quotes for later. We think that will really help research for theories or writing wiki articles. That's an area we intend to work on. Oh, and one more thing: this software will have a responsive design, which means you can find all the quotes you want on your phone. The software will be open source, too. If you're an enterprising coder, you can contribute to the project. If you're a different fandom, you can install it for your use, too! The software probably won't be open source immediately, as Mestiv wants to clean up his code a bit before opening it up. But soon after launch, it will be open source. Where we go from here We plan to show the WoB Archive to many awesome individuals in the community who already transcribe stuff so they can test and give feedback on things. This will be our beta period. We're just about there, so very soon this will be out there in June. We have a list of people we are inviting, so hang tight! We want to show you this ASAP. We're starting small for now (especially compared to the fandom at large), but you'll all see this soon! Overall, our goal is to have the software done--with the core functionality listed above, at least, completed and well-tested--by the Oathbringer release. Obviously, that's where there will be a massive spike in new interviews, so all our transcribing stuff needs to be very good there. So, Oathbringer is our deadline. But our progress is going very well, so we may end the beta period early and have our official launch earlier. We'll see. Lots can happen in software development. You'll notice that we didn't include any screenshots of the system for now. That's not to conceal anything--it does work, and it's pretty cool--but right now our design team hasn't begun work on making it pretty. Function comes first. The usual 17S design team will work on making it look and feel good this summer, and then we can show more off We intend to import all Brandon-related interviews from Theoryland to this new system. We're hoping we don't need to manually input things and we can do a software-based conversion of the data, but we are committed to a system that is complete and will be up-to-date. We hope you will join us on this quest to archive everything Brandon has said in this difficult time of transition from Theoryland to this system. But, I think this system will finally be the interview archive we all need. With your help, we will be able to keep things up-to-date for years to come. The era of long lag on things being inputted into the database will be over. (Of course, we will be working hard too.) We're sorry it's taken so long. Big thanks to Weiry, who tirelessly works to make sure everything is perfect. Even bigger thanks to Mestiv who is finally making this a reality. Also major thanks to Joe who coded an implementation of a database as well and is always awesome. He helped us move towards a custom coded solution, which I always worried would be too difficult. But it's real now, and I'm insanely excited to show you all this. 74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 But will it have a release trailer? 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mestiv Posted May 22, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Argent said: But will it have a release trailer? With explosions! 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, Chaos said: We intend to import all Brandon-related interviews from Theoryland to this new system. We're hoping we don't need to manually input things and we can do a software-based conversion of the data, but we are committed to a system that is complete and will be up-to-date. This is actually a good opportunity to take a look at old sources and links (at least) and make sure they still work. I wouldn't mind if an effort was organized to (slowly) go over this old content and make sure nothing is missing from things like interview transcripts and Reddit threads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just now, Argent said: This is actually a good opportunity to take a look at old sources and links (at least) and make sure they still work. I wouldn't mind if an effort was organized to (slowly) go over this old content and make sure nothing is missing from things like interview transcripts and Reddit threads. Considering the quality of some old Theoryland stuff, I don't disagree, but we will definitely need a lot of help to comb through it As you'll see, we do things slightly differently than Theoryland in how we label certain events and stuff, so it's possible an automated thing is just impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manukos Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 HYPE HYPE HYPE! i will be looking forward to it . i never liked theoryland , too...muddled, so the palaneum , (and it is an awesome name no need to change it) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Manukos said: HYPE HYPE HYPE! i will be looking forward to it . i never liked theoryland , too...muddled, so the palaneum , (and it is an awesome name no need to change it) Unfortunately, Palanaeum doesn't work for a few reasons, though it is cool. Honestly a big reason is that I think no one will be able to spell it properly, so that kind of kills it. So we decided Palanaeum is the software name, and our implementation of the software will be different. We're finalizing our branding of it, so worry not, and it is also cool. But this module will not be called Palanaeum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 It's about time! Palanaeum is a great name, though. Whatever name you'll actually use had better be even cooler. As far as openness, is it as public as the Coppermind? Where anyone who signs up for an account can add something? Or will it there be more of a 'submission queue'? I guess this is the sort of thing that will be clarifies during the beta testing phase, but the fundamental problem with crowdsourced information is avoiding the wrong stuff. (Someone transcribes a word wrong, or maybe someone references a forum post where someone else is "absolutely confident" we have a WoB.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Pagerunner said: It's about time! Palanaeum is a great name, though. Whatever name you'll actually use had better be even cooler. As far as openness, is it as public as the Coppermind? Where anyone who signs up for an account can add something? Or will it there be more of a 'submission queue'? I guess this is the sort of thing that will be clarifies during the beta testing phase, but the fundamental problem with crowdsourced information is avoiding the wrong stuff. (Someone transcribes a word wrong, or maybe someone references a forum post where someone else is "absolutely confident" we have a WoB.) For a general user, they can submit things and suggest edits, but they won't go live until their stuff is approved. Anyone could do that, though. We expect there will be a core group of pro community members who contribute a lot and they will get a special rank, and be able to avoid the approval queue because they know the conventions and stuff. These to start out with will likely be our beta users. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riceloft Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Very cool! Sounds like a super beefed up version of a ITSM Knowledge database. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Chaos said: For a general user, they can submit things and suggest edits, but they won't go live until their stuff is approved. Anyone could do that, though. We expect there will be a core group of pro community members who contribute a lot and they will get a special rank, and be able to avoid the approval queue because they know the conventions and stuff. These to start out with will likely be our beta users. This is fantastic. I'm sure you already have plans to link the Storm Cellar into this, but once it's up and running I'd like to announce it over to the JordanCon group as well. Brandon is definitely going to be in attendance next year, so I've no doubt that we'll have a ton of stuff to upload at the end of April 2018. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Chaos said: The software is codenamed Palanaeum (though that won't be the name of this database; it's the software's name) The obvious choice for the database is: "the Book of Endless Pages" Also, this sounds absolutely fantastic! I am excited to see the code when it goes open source in... github I assume? Congratulations to everyone who made this possible! What a wonderful achievement! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said: The obvious choice for the database is: "the Book of Endless Pages" Also, this sounds absolutely fantastic! I am excited to see the code when it goes open source in... github I assume? Congratulations to everyone who made this possible! What a wonderful achievement! Yes, we will go public on github some time after launch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Will the WoB from Reddit also be added? Now that they are so helpfully avaliable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Flash said: Will the WoB from Reddit also be added? Now that they are so helpfully avaliable Yes, we want to include every WoB we can find. Reddit, Twitter, anything that is confirmed to come from Brandon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) Fantastic.now if only I had more upvotes to give all you guys Edited May 22, 2017 by The Flash 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Mestiv said: Yes, we want to include every WoB we can find. Reddit, Twitter, anything that is confirmed to come from Brandon. Blog posts, signed books, notes written on napkins, murmurings in his sleep captured with a parabolic microphone... the whole nine yards. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegatorgirl00 Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, CaptainRyan said: The obvious choice for the database is: "the Book of Endless Pages" I prefer the Grand Indicium. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 31 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: ... murmurings in his sleep captured with a parabolic microphone... the whole nine yards. Hmm, I didn't think anyone else knew about that particular ploy of mine... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Now I can publically hype about this - I hope it will render my WoB Stack Exchange obsolete As for the name... it has to be something fandom related. It has to be simple, so that we avoid misspellings. It shouldn't be too long or too many words. It should reference gathering of knowledge or libraries or archives... Unfortunately Coppermind is taken. If we want to keep in the theme, we could name it Tinmind (as it has to do with transcribing, so hearing -> sight). There are groups dedicated to gathering knowledge: Worldbringers from Scadrial and Worldsingers from Roshar. There are also Veristitalians but as I had to look up the spellings it's immediately out. There were also Keepers, but they used copperminds, so it would have to be Keeper's metalmind or Keepermind. These are not really good names. Stormwardens are better, since they reference Stormlight Archive with the "storm" in their name... however, all these groups are hard to convert into suitable name for database, as it would be awkward to use: "I can't find that WoB on stormwardens." "Did you check worldbringers?" etc. The name has to be a thing, not a person. Ars Arcanum is a bad choice due to the confusion of the in-world Ars Arcanum and trying to play on the name will probably create confusions with Arcanum Unbounded... The nobles had their Keeps... like Keep Venture or Keep Hasting... we could play on that like 'Keep Ardent' or something. Or we could keep the reference to theoryland and name it ardentland. But this name is clunky. Well, I'll keep thinking on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, Oversleep said: Now I can publically hype about this - I hope it will render my WoB Stack Exchange obsolete As for the name... it has to be something fandom related. It has to be simple, so that we avoid misspellings. It shouldn't be too long or too many words. It should reference gathering of knowledge or libraries or archives... Unfortunately Coppermind is taken. If we want to keep in the theme, we could name it Tinmind (as it has to do with transcribing, so hearing -> sight). There are groups dedicated to gathering knowledge: Worldbringers from Scadrial and Worldsingers from Roshar. There are also Veristitalians but as I had to look up the spellings it's immediately out. There were also Keepers, but they used copperminds, so it would have to be Keeper's metalmind or Keepermind. These are not really good names. Stormwardens are better, since they reference Stormlight Archive with the "storm" in their name... however, all these groups are hard to convert into suitable name for database, as it would be awkward to use: "I can't find that WoB on stormwardens." "Did you check worldbringers?" etc. The name has to be a thing, not a person. Ars Arcanum is a bad choice due to the confusion of the in-world Ars Arcanum and trying to play on the name will probably create confusions with Arcanum Unbounded... The nobles had their Keeps... like Keep Venture or Keep Hasting... we could play on that like 'Keep Ardent' or something. Or we could keep the reference to theoryland and name it ardentland. But this name is clunky. Well, I'll keep thinking on this. Such a shame another fansite already took the name Hoid's Compendium... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just now, Pagerunner said: Such a shame another fansite already took the name Hoid's Compendium... Maybe something about Khriss or Silverlight (although Silverlight is long by itself...). Khriss's notes? Notes of Khriss? Meh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Sanderland has a certain ring to it... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) Hm. What about just the Archive? Or the palaneum? Or even Shardland. And shard archive would work as well. Edited May 22, 2017 by The Flash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 But...how will I earn my internet points by quickly finding obscure WoBs for other people's posts? No, this is, sadly, one of the happiest pieces of news I've heard in a very long time! I love you guys!!! And I can't wait until contributions are opened up, make use of my love of researching WoBs. In terms of name - how about The Words of Founding? You know, coz that was a collection of statements with implications for the Cosmere and Realmatics, handed down by a god to his faithful subjects to make the world a better place, and that people spend hours deciphering to determine their true meaning 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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