hoser Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Mind... blown. So many things. “Spren are those ideas—the ideas of collective human experience— somehow come alive. Shadesmar is where that first happens, and it is their place. Though we created it, they shaped it. They live there; they rule there, within their own cities.” “Cities?” “Yes,” Jasnah said, looking back out over the ocean. She seemed troubled. “Spren are wild in their variety. Some are as clever as humans and create cities. Others are like fish and simply swim in the currents.” Shallan nodded. Though in truth she was having trouble grasping any of this, she didn’t want Jasnah to stop talking. This was the sort of knowledge that Shallan needed, the kind of thing she craved. “Does this have to do with what you discovered? About the parshmen, the Voidbringers?” “I haven’t been able to determine that yet. The spren are not always forthcoming. In some cases, they do not know. In others, they do not trust me because of our ancient betrayal.” Shallan frowned, looking to her teacher. “Betrayal?” “They tell me of it,” Jasnah said, “but they won’t say what it was. We broke an oath, and in so doing offended them greatly. I think some of them may have died, though how a concept can die, I do not know.” Jasnah turned to Shallan with a solemn expression. “I realize this is overwhelming. You will have to learn this, all of it, if you are to help me. Are you still willing?” “Do I have a choice?” A smile tugged at the edges of Jasnah’s lips. “I doubt it. You Soulcast on your own, without the aid of a fabrial. You are like me.” Shallan stared out over the waters. Like Jasnah. What did it mean? Why— She froze, blinking. For a moment, she thought she’d seen the same pattern as before, the one that had made ridges on her sheet of paper. This time it had been in the water, impossibly formed on the surface of a wave. “Brightness…” she said, resting her fingers on Jasnah’s arm. “I thought I saw something in the water, just now. A pattern of sharp lines, like a maze.” “Show me where.” “It was on one of the waves, and we’ve passed it now. But I think I saw it earlier, on one of my pages. Does it mean something?” “Most certainly. I must admit, Shallan, I find the coincidence of our meeting to be startling. Suspiciously so.” “Brightness?” “They were involved,” Jasnah said. “They brought you to me. And they are still watching you, it appears. So no, Shallan, you no longer have a choice. Cities! Betrayal. The Recreance? Spren dying? I think they could have been killed with Shardblades, but maybe being detached from their cognitive selves as Syl was might be enough of an offense. So did the spren see Shallan's latent talent and create her cockamamie plan to steal the Soulcaster in order to get her and Jasnah together? Were the spren working with the ideas in Shallan's mind when she decided to travel to find Jasnah? It would explain her fabulous artistic abilities - that's why she was chosen. Did they help with the events that precipitated the plan - her father's death? Is the spren that is following Shallan different from her bonded cryptic or is that how the cryptic manifests outside of her drawings? What happens in the Cognitive Realm when Shallan takes a memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 What happens in the Cognitive Realm when Shallan takes a memory? Erm... a pool party? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinpoint Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Spren dying? I think they could have been killed with Shardblades, but maybe being detached from their cognitive selves as Syl was might be enough of an offense Yay! someone agrees with my theory! http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4367-why-spren-dont-like-shard-blades/ I think that when the spren are referring to betrayal and broken oaths they might be talking about the oathpact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileswasbestcharacter Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I don't think the spren would have been as offended by the breaking of the oathpact, as much as by the recreance. The oathpact was, I'm speculating here, only between honor , odium and the heralds; the knight Radiants were something else entirely. When the heralds abandoned the oathpact, there was no one there to really point out and say: hey you! This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules where are you going! The oathpact also wasn't entirely abandoned as talon remains bound to his blade and tortured in damnation. Whereas the Radiants, assumably, each had a spren bonded with them, and then they abandoned their positions of power and leadership, allowing their special weapons to be taken and used by less worthy hands. Here we have humans betraying bonded spren and throwing away their oaths to protect humanity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think that the Recreance is a distinct possibility, but it makes a few assumptions. Primely that the abandonment of arms was also the abandonment of the Spren. The spren were attracted not to the weapons, but the warriors. Now it is possible that the Nahel spren form the Blades. I just haven't seen any real evidence of it yet. As an alternate idea, I would like everyone to consider that the Great Betrayal was the enslavement of the Parshmen. We are aware that all Parshendi have a spren. We are also aware that the Parshendi are shocked by 'slave form'. Lack of spren. How does one severe the connection of an idea to an individual ? P.S. Hoser: where did Hobbes go?? I miss him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think that the Recreance is a distinct possibility, but it makes a few assumptions. Primely that the abandonment of arms was also the abandonment of the Spren. The spren were attracted not to the weapons, but the warriors. Now it is possible that the Nahel spren form the Blades. I just haven't seen any real evidence of it yet. As an alternate idea, I would like everyone to consider that the Great Betrayal was the enslavement of the Parshmen. We are aware that all Parshendi have a spren. We are also aware that the Parshendi are shocked by 'slave form'. Lack of spren. How does one severe the connection of an idea to an individual ? P.S. Hoser: where did Hobbes go?? I miss him Dalinar did hear the virtual screaming at the Recreance vision. Abandoning the weapons to people who used them on each other seems pretty incompatible with the Windrunner oaths that we've seen. They had seemingly tightly controlled the Shards up to that point. I think they did abandon the oaths at the Recreance. I think they did have a plan, but it could still have hurt the spren. That said, forcibly breaking the Parshmen from their spren seems like it could have been a betrayal too. I hesitate to assume it's that, because I don't understand what really happened. @Doc: I assume you mean Phantom Monstrosity when you say Hobbes. I checked his profile. He hasn't posted since July and hasn't been on since October. He achieved the 10th highest reputation in 6 months of postings. And really, all he (or she) had going was brilliance, humor, conciseness and effective use of quotes . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I don't recall the screaming, but my reread hasn't gotten there yet. I've been more active in the forums and dedicating less time to the reread since the Tor release. I will pay special attention to it shortly. I would still hesitate to assume that abandonment of formal practice of the oaths in masse would cause the Spren to die off our reject the Nahel. Lift shows is that they are attracted to the individual, due to hire they act in given circumstances. I.e. the sort of thing that causes people to act dishonorable' (Mr. T). I don't see why, assuming they had good reason, the Spren would abandon the KR entirely. Magic is an intentional act for the trained. So there's no reason to assume (presuming Darkness sites the truth) that a Nahel-bond for a master of the art to exist in tandem with a Surgebinder who doesn't actively use it. P.S. you were right about Phantom, time I went to bed and stopped pretending I was talking to someone else lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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