Jump to content

On the Nature of the Shattered Plains


Wonko the Sane

Recommended Posts

Yeah, there's gonna be spoilers. Duh.

First and foremost, I've seen a lot of people say that the Tower is the plateau at the center of the Plains. This is incorrect. Kaladin saw while riding the storm that the center is occupied by the plateau on which the Parshendi live, and they don't live on the Tower. This also demonstrates that the Prime Map covers less than half of the Plains, which makes sense, because even with its aid, Dalinar was unable to determine the underlying pattern.

Anyway, the numerous references to some symmetry to the plains have drawn my attention. Based on Kaladin's observations, it would seem as though they were formed by some sort of massive impact. Now, I am going to propose a radical theory: what if said impact was caused by Odium/Rayse's return to Roshar? It would seem that the gap been the Last Desolation and the True Desolation has been longer than the usual lapse between desolations. Could this be because Odium/Rayse has been gone, off making mischief on Sel? If this is the case, the time frame would be right for the Shattered Plains to have been formed by his re-arrival on the planet. In addition, the Parshendi, disputed servants of Odium/Rayse, reside at the very center of the impact.

This theory has little definite evidence, but more and more I am coming to believe it is correct.

Your thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna go meta for a second and state that because the Shattered Plains were moved into this book from another, there can't be a truly story-defining reason for them to be on Roshar. I'm sure Brandon has explained them quite nicely when reworking the back-story, but it's not going to be central to the cosmology.

That said, this idea isn't necessarily wrong. It's just that I don't understand the Parshendi enough to really know what they think of Odium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with that. Just because it was taken from another book doesn't mean it can't be significant. The first draft of the Way of Kings was centered around Kholinar, which Brandon said in the Tor Q&A, and he shifted just about everything that was going on to the Shattered Plains. He changed the timing of a lot of things as well. He also changed what Kaladin did with the Shards he won. So much is different, it's obviously going to have some far ranging effects on the rest of the story. He's probably going to have whatever Cosmere related thing that was going to happen in Dragonsteel concerning the Shattered Plains happen on Roshar now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

couldn't the shattered plains still be in Dragonsteel? Someone said that the shattered plains were the result of Odium coming back to Roshar. There could be shattered plains in the Dragonsteel world as well if another shard showed up and all Shards changing worlds have cataclysmic results for the landscapes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna go meta for a second and state that because the Shattered Plains were moved into this book from another, there can't be a truly story-defining reason for them to be on Roshar. I'm sure Brandon has explained them quite nicely when reworking the back-story, but it's not going to be central to the cosmology.

That said, this idea isn't necessarily wrong. It's just that I don't understand the Parshendi enough to really know what they think of Odium.

It has been observed far too many times that there is some elusive symmetry to the Shattered Plains for their formation to be irrelevant. Their location used to be occupied by a large Kingdom. Now it is a broken wasteland. Something cataclysmic obviously happened. I am trying to guess what. I am almost positive that it was some kind of Extraterrestrial impact. On a side note, do you suppose that Roshar and Sel could be somewhat close together? If I am right, This is the second instance of travel between the two planets, and there is evidence that both occured through the Physical Realm. I seem to remember an interview in which Brandon said that Roshar was in the same solar system as another of his worlds could it be Sel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. It's Silence Divine

Brandon: Yes, just like the letter that I have no idea what you're talking about. I will tell you that one of the novels I skipped is actually set in the same solar system. [Zas678- As Roshar]

17th Shard: Oh…so this is the series that that book shares. [Editor's Note: Some on the 17th Shard staff have read many of Brandon's unpublished works. This editor has no idea what they're talking about.]

Brandon: Yes, this is the series that the book shares that I skipped. I was planning to do it first, but now was the time to do the Stormlight Archive. So you will eventually see a book set on a planet in the same solar system. You could just pick out in the sky of Roshar if you were watching when [something happens? —ed], and it may even get mentioned because it's a fairly close planet.

17th Shard: Is that on Divine Silence?

Brandon: Silence Divine happens there.

17th Shard: What is the name of that planet?

Brandon: Hmm…should I tell you?

17th Shard: Yes!

Brandon: Oh, Peter says no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. It's Silence Divine

I suppose if its a world we haven't seen, it makes sense that we haven't seen any instances of travel between the two. Or, if we have, that we haven't recognised them.

I still hold that Sel and Roshar might be relatively close together. However, I have realized that since Scadrial has apparently developed interplanetary travel by the time Way of Kings occurred, and Elantris comes before Mistborn, Sel has had the time to create even more capable spacecraft. however, as Odium/Rayse visited before the events of Elantris, he couldn't have used said spacecraft to return to Roshar.

Does anyone remember some info as to how old the Plains are? A few characters have commented on the kingdom that used to be there, so their formation has not been completely lost to time. This is one of the only time frames I am missing, and if it fits in with the rest, I, for one, will be wholly convinced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that the shattered plains are part of what was once Natanatan what is currently known as the frostlands. The people who live there are blue skinned, and I think that the shattered plains are relatively new. They were unknown until recently and if people went there it was not often. They were discovered by Galivar's expedition when the Parshendi took them to hunt chasmfiends. If they had been around for a very long time, then people would have known about them and the chasmfiends.

@Wonko, would Odium need a spacecraft to travel through space? He has enough power to destroy other Shards, he should at least be able to move around with ease, especially if there isnt a shard to fight while moving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The theory that the Shattered Plain/ the Chasm (Elantris) is the result of Odium crashing into the planet doesn't make sense to me. I mean, what would he be moving? Shards seem to have very little connection to the Physical Realm. I mean, it's pretty much just their pool. And I can't see the pool crashing from planet to planet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Does anyone remember some info as to how old the Plains are?

Nothing specific, but I'd be surprised if it happened during the last couple of lifetimes (for example). Dalinar mentions that the plateaus are increasingly weathered to the south and east, presumably because of erosion caused by the highstorms. While having hurricane force storms come through every couple of weeks is nothing to laugh about, to see that level of erosion would still take at least a couple generations.

My guess--they've been there for a long time, possibly since the last Desolation(most recent, not 'L' Last). It seems like, with the level of science the Alethi women display, anything in the last few generations would have been documented, and we probably would have heard about it already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Nothing specific, but I'd be surprised if it happened during the last couple of lifetimes (for example). Dalinar mentions that the plateaus are increasingly weathered to the south and east, presumably because of erosion caused by the highstorms. While having hurricane force storms come through every couple of weeks is nothing to laugh about, to see that level of erosion would still take at least a couple generations.

Or, if it is a crater, the cracks nearer the middle would obviously be thicker, with or without erosion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I always thought the Shattered Plains was probably the location where Odium laid the smackdown on Honor. No evidence to support such, but it seems to fit what I would think a location of one god destroying another would look like. I figured Urithuru (sp?) was located near there and was destroyed along with Honor...you know, because the two were supposed to near each other...am I right on that? I seem to recall someone saying the City was to be built to be closer to Honor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I also thought that might be why the Parshendi are still there...the Honor Shard probably remaining or splintered in the area or something similar. Might explain how they got Shardplate/blades and have an honorable streak.

Just throwing that out there.

Great site, though...not sure why it took me so long to find it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought the Shattered Plains was probably the location where Odium laid the smackdown on Honor. No evidence to support such, but it seems to fit what I would think a location of one god destroying another would look like. I figured Urithuru (sp?) was located near there and was destroyed along with Honor...you know, because the two were supposed to near each other...am I right on that? I seem to recall someone saying the City was to be built to be closer to Honor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I was actually thinking along the same lines for the origin of the Shattered Plains--where Odium slew Honor. I remember one of the death whispers being something I connected to the plains...let me check Coppermind...

Ah ha!

There are two:

Gadol in Chapter 17 “They break the land itself!” (it continues, but this is the part I find relevant)

And then we have Maps in chapter 7: “And all the world was shattered!” Maps yelled, back arching, eyes wide, flecks of red spittle on his cheeks. “The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die!”

Maybe I'm interpreting it strangely, but it sounds to me like it could be a fight there.

And you are right about Urithru being built closer to Honor (chapter 35 epigraph): “Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.” Though the shattered plains are not really west of much besides the sea, however since we've already seen two Shard holders reshape continents (first Rashek and then Sazed)this might not mean much. Do we know where Alethela actually was? naming similarity suggests that it would be similar to the location of Alethkar, but no guarantee. Are we told its location or relative location at any time?

The idea that the Shattered Plains might have been near where Urithru was and close to Honor brings back something I've been pondering on for a while..."Honor Chasm" HAS to mean a whole lot more than we've seen so far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been observed far too many times that there is some elusive symmetry to the Shattered Plains for their formation to be irrelevant. Their location used to be occupied by a large Kingdom. Now it is a broken wasteland. Something cataclysmic obviously happened. I am trying to guess what. I am almost positive that it was some kind of Extraterrestrial impact. On a side note, do you suppose that Roshar and Sel could be somewhat close together? If I am right, This is the second instance of travel between the two planets, and there is evidence that both occured through the Physical Realm. I seem to remember an interview in which Brandon said that Roshar was in the same solar system as another of his worlds could it be Sel?

Could it be this is where Odium is buried? (or held in check or whatever his end of the Oathpact was)

The mention of symetry got me thinking about how the Ardent could reproduce most of the sacred cities via sound waves, what if this place is Odium's version of that. OR I just thought of this one, maybe this is what Odium did that broke the universal use of magic. You know the teleporting to the KR capital and stuff. If the placement of the symetrical cities was important to the universal access to magic, it would follow that making the world (or at least continent) wide map unbalanced would, well, throw everything off balance. In (vague) support of this, symetry is holy to the Vorinists, maybe it's more important than they remember.

EDIT: because i don't know the difference between "throw" and "through" :)

Edited by Asha'man Logain
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Do we know where Alethela actually was?

I might be wrong but I recall someone in the book mentioning (likely Dalinar during one of his visions) that Alethela was the 'ancient' name for Alethkar, so it would occupy the same general area (with borders moving due to wars and such, over the centuries).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can compare the map from the bookends of WoK, from the Silver Kingdoms Epoch, to the map of current Roshar. Take a look for yourself, the images were just posted today:

http://brandonsanderson.com/images/wok/tWoK_ENDSHEET-FRONT-2-webres.jpg

http://brandonsanderson.com/images/wok/tWoK_MAP-0_ROSHAR-webres.jpg

Alethela and Alethkar cover pretty much the exact same area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can compare the map from the bookends of WoK, from the Silver Kingdoms Epoch, to the map of current Roshar. Take a look for yourself, the images were just posted today:

http://brandonsanderson.com/images/wok/tWoK_ENDSHEET-FRONT-2-webres.jpg

http://brandonsanderson.com/images/wok/tWoK_MAP-0_ROSHAR-webres.jpg

Alethela and Alethkar cover pretty much the exact same area.

That would be why I have not seen those before--they do not exist in the Kindle edition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note that the Shattered Plains are east of both Alethkar and Alethela, so if that quote is reliable, then Urithru couldn't have been near the Shattered Plains.

But unless we know who is speaking and, more importantly, where he's speaking, it's difficult to know if everything is West from the perspective of the speaker. Maybe he's some guy from another continent to the east of the one we have seen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it was relatively clear from context they were talking about west of Alethela, but YMMV. There's no point speculating about other continents at the moment, as we have no idea whether they even exist, and I'm highly doubtful they would feature in the story. As the Shattered Plains are one of the east-most locations that we know of in Roshar, it still makes no sense that anyone we'd ever hear from in the Stormlight Archives would call them "west", let alone imply that they're west of Alethela.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though this is assuming that the geography has not been rearranged like in Mistborn.

Fair enough, but Mistborn is the one case where we've actually discovered geopgraphic rearrangements, so I don't know if it's going to be all that common. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...