A possible parallel to the Oathpact

[MagnusMuses]

One of the mysteries presented to the reader in the prelude to the Stormlight Archive is the nature of the Oathpact that is broken by the Heralds. A possible reason behind this pact occurred to me recently and it relates to a particular well known story from the Bible, the story of Job.

 

To those not familiar with said story:

Job is a very prosperous man who is both righteous and pious. God is very proud of Job but Satan claims that Job is only righteous because he is so sheltered. Satan wagers with God that if he were to take everything away from Job then he would not be so pious. God takes the wager and allows Satan to do what he wants short of taking Job's life. Satan tries everything but fails to get Job to curse God.

 

The possible parallel with the Oathpact lies in the deal between two deities with people caught in the middle.

 

In the Almighty's last message to Dalinar he says that it might be possible to get Odium to choose a champion. This implies that it is possible in some circumstances to make deals with Odium and so it might not be ridiculous to conjecture that deals have been struck in the past. There is also precedent for deals between two opposing Shards in Brandon's other Cosmere books.

 

If the Almighty is Honor as many suspect then maybe Honor and Odium made a wager on whether humans could be broken and made to discard their honor for selfish reasons. This would explain why the Heralds had to endure torment between desolations, this was a test of how long they could last.

 

Furthermore, if Honor and Odium made this deal then, presumably, a lot rode on the outcome. Possibly even the fate of the Shards and of Roshar itself. If this was the case then that would mean that 9 out of 10 Heralds forsaking the Oathpact would deal a crushing, possibly fatal, blow to Honor.

 

I have seen it noted that, curiously enough, the Heralds don't mention Honor and only mention the Almighty in passing. Comparing this to the story of Job then this might mean that the Heralds were unaware of this wager and only thought that they were defending humanity from the desolations when the real battle was for their virtue.

 

This only just occurred to me and I couldn't find any mention of this parallel being drawn anywhere so I decided to post it. I hope I'm not just reposting something that has already been discussed.

[Argent]

One problem that comes to mind is that while the Heralds don't talk about Honor, they are aware of the the Oathpact. Maybe not all of it, but certainly their part of the deal.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Argent

[Gloom]

Another problem comes down to the fact that I doubt that Tanavast was an idiot. Making a bet that someone isn't going to break over the course of thousands of years of brutal torture is just plain idiotic. I'll bet that most people wouldn't last a week under rigorous torture. I'd also bet that those people would never be the same again, never move as freely or as pain free as they used to again, etc. At least not without magic.

 

Tanavast was human once. He has seen, lived that life. He would have seen, either in his life as a human being, or as a Shard the results of torture. Honestly, I find it unbelievable that the Heralds went back once, let alone 99 times. This is part of why I don't believe that the Heralds began in a manner that led to their torture.

 

Edit: I wasn't trying to be offensive. Some of what you said I believe.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Gloom

[Guest Alaxel]

There is something compelling about this idea. Even if the Heralds know about the Oathpact, they're not necessarily privy to the whole truth. Maybe all they're aware of is, "It's my Duty to defend humanity. In exchange for the power to defend them, I will enter in to this Oathpact and accept the terrible price of being tortured more often than not."

My biggest qualm with it is that it's not a very honorable thing to do, using humanity as unknowing pawns that way. Unless it was the ONLY way to give them a chance. I can't decide. Honor is a very tricky concept. Something honorable in one culture can be viewed as despicable in another. So maybe it is honorable to agree to have a few suffer for the sake of the many. Personally, I've always viewed honor through the lens of Kants Categorical Imperative. Black and white, plain and simple. No middle ground. Don't allow the consequences of your actions affect your decision. For example, if a 6'6" 280lbs MMA fighter slapped my wife on the chull at a bar, I would fight him. I know I'd get the crap kicked out of me, but that's not a factor in my decision. All that matters is what happened and the response my honor demands.

Maybe I got a tiny bit off topic with that, but if there is a parallel between the Oathpact and the story of Job, then the nature of honor ought to be discussed. Or the nature of honor vs Honor.

[Shardlet]

First off, Welcome, Magnus.  Glad to see you jumping in with both feet and posting a great theory as your first post.  This is a great parallel to the Oathpact.  One thing that must be considered in contrast, though.  At the Seattle signing, Brandon indicated that the Heralds chose to take part in this and continued to choose each time they survived a desolation.  They are willing and knowing participants.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Shardlet

[Bloodfalcon]

I like it, Magnus. A good start at least. It has always had a very similar feeling to Job's story, but I could never put my finger on it.

Edit: Accidentally credited Shardlet because I had just looked at that post and my brain farted.

Edited October 23, 2013 by bloodfalcon2

[Dros]

I wonder--does the Oathpact grant them immortality or were they that way before the Oathpact? If the reward of immortality was used, it might explain why the Heralds would sign up for such duty.

 

I like the thought that they weren't fully aware of what the Oathpact would entail. It would almost be like the Old Magic, a boon and a curse. Congratulations, you're immortal and now have the power to battle Odium's minions! But you'll be tortured relentlessly for 9/10s of that immortal life. Have fun, kids.

 

But, really, I think Honor would have told them about the pros and cons. If he did, I would have to agree with Gloom---I don't think the cons of the Oathpact fully presented themselves until later. It's possible it got worse and worse and worse as time went on. So for this theory to work, Honor couldn't be there. Maybe Odium did skip into town and offer immortality and some Honorblades, but for a price everyone will learn later. Still, these guys were supposed to be the best of the best, I would doubt they would accept such a thing without knowing the price. 

 

So, again, what we know about the Oathpact just doesn't make sense to me. 

[Guest Alaxel]

@Dros

There is also a very large difference between knowing a consequence and experiencing a consequence. Consider this entirely hypothetical offer. "If you allow all the skin on one of your legs to be burned to the second degree, you will receive $100,000.00." Even if you take a few days to really, really think about the consequences, your wildest imaginings will pale in comparison to the reality of that much pain and the consequent suffering. Suddenly, $100,000.00 doesn't seem so valuable anymore.

In this situation, the reward and consequence are both easily understood. But the Heralds, potentially, faced much more abstract terms. It's extremely hard (I would say impossible) to truly fathom centuries of torture. Magical torture, at that. From the implications in the text, it's more than simply years of suffering - it's ultimate suffering every single day, with their bodies repaired and healed for the purpose of experiencing even more suffering. In short, during the time between Desolations, the Heralds suffer many orders of magnitude more than the human body naturally has the capacity to experience. I propose that the incomprehensible nature of this term of the Oathpact was something the Heralds likely would not have agreed to if the had had the capacity to understand what they were agreeing to.

It's also a part of human nature to place more value on potential benefits than potential risks. Especially in a desperate situation. It's what drives people to throw good money after bad at the casino. So perhaps the Heralds did indeed know the consequences of entering the Oathpact but were also in a desperate situation which lead them to commit hastily. Something like, "I see no other alternative. I will bear any burden to protect humanity."

I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this, but I figured it was important to look a little more closely at all the factors that could have influenced the Heralds decision to enter in to the Oathpact. Honestly, I don't think we have enough information about the Oathpact to speculate accurately - but that's the most entertaining form of speculation!

[Gloom]

My thoughts on the Oath Pact and the events that led to the Heralds abandonment of the Pact are here. link to source

Edited October 24, 2013 by Gloom