Rithmatics and Realmic Theory

[jag519]

So, I remember hearing that when Brandon made the magic system for what ended up being the Rithmatist he did originally plan for it to be in a cosmere book, and that the magic system worked in the cosmere.

If the story ended up not being a YA book and was not based on earth, what do you think would change, if anything to the magic system. I don't know a lot about Realmic theory because I only read Elantris, the Mistborn books, and The Rithmatist, but how would your theories about Rithmatics change (since we don't really know everything about Rithmatics yet) if it was in a cosmere world?

[Carcinios]

I guess there would be a greater discussion of the physical, cognative and spiritual dimensions of Rithmatics. I'm guessing that would look something like:

 

Physical: The actual chalk lines drawn on the ground

Cognative: The Rithmatist's understanding/intentions when drawing the lines

Spiritual: The way the lines view themselves (a more aesthetic chalkling has a stronger sense of what it is making it more effective)

 

Or something like that. I don't think an awful lot would have to change

[Shardlet]

I agree.  I don't see any part of rithmatics that is incompatible with realmatic theory.  The only difference is, if it were realmatically based, we would have a framework for analyzing and theorizing about it.  Being non-cosmere means we don't have much in the way of overarching rules to work with for understanding it.  Even if it was originally realmatically based, we can't rely on realmatic theory for guidance since BS could have tweaked it in a way we haven't seen yet. 

[Kurkistan]

First of all, thank you fro posting this information, jag. Did you hear any other new info while you were there?

 

Second, I agree with Shardlet that Rithmatics may well have deviated from Realmatics since Brandon made the switch-over, making analysis of either discipline in light of the other problematic, at the very least.

 

Third, I agree that there's nothing really Cosmere-shattering in what we see. Beauty standards for chalklings do provide some discussion: Are they evaluated based on their creator, people who see them, or the population at large? Can Melody talk to hers because she expects them to more intelligent than most people do, or because the detail she puts into them actually makes them more intelligent? Both? Some Realmatics could be derived from that.

 

The existence of population-wide beauty standards would also be yet another piece of evidence for all the Forms theorizing I've been spouting for a while (seriously, though: I've been expecting a parade at how right I am by this point. Color me sad ).

Edited August 7, 2013 by Kurkistan

[jag519]

Yeah, from my understanding of Realmic theory (which is pretty much just those 3 different realms and that it might involve god things like ruin and preservation (going to wait until I get caught up on all cosmere books before really diving into much more of the stuff on the god things being shards etc)) Rithmatics seems to really fit in with Realmic theory still.

 

For this thread, if we just assume that it fits realmic theory completely and use that for the frame work, would that help us with more theories about Rithmatics. 

The only thing that I think we could discount for Rithmatics is that it is caused by a shard/shards, b/c that seems to me that is the main part of Realmic theory that can't work out of the Cosmere. (and this is also with me only knowing that shards are things like Ruin and Preservation...Lol)

But yeah, like you say Shardlet, it would give us a frame for analyzing and theorizing, if we just assume that frame is there, what things could we figure out?

 

And yeah, that's the only thing I could think of that wasn't said during the panel (so this must have been while playing magic), you listened to the sound file of the panel, right?

Oh, the only other thing other than this and the things at the panel I could think of is I asked him a bit about hoid, and him being in all of these different stories that are so many years a part is not just living long and planet hopping, but there is also a bit of time hopping (a mix of both living long and time hopping)

[Kurkistan]

Um, sound file? Do tell.

[skaa]

I can imagine Realmatic Rithmatists living on Sel, where the manifestations of Investiture are form-based. Here are some similarities between Selish magic and Rithmatics:

• The Rithmatic lines remind me of the geometric shapes of Aons.
• Shadowblazes and the Forgotten are like Seons and Skaze
• The Inception ceremony is like a combination of the Shaod and the process of bonding with a Seon (well, really, it's more like the Nahel Bond with spren on Roshar, but let's focus on Sel here)
• The requirement to use chalk is similar to Forgery's ink requirement and Bloodsealing's blood requirement

[Observer]

Though we don't know for sure yet, I'm guessing there is a list of standards or something that determine chalkling power that would have simply been explained by cognitive aspects otherwise. Other than that, the Rithmatist is still very compatible with realmatics.

[jag519]

The Googledoc you posted in the CTcon thread had a link to a sound file in it. you could listen to the whole panel there https://soundcloud.com/gavin-king-4/brandon-spotlight-pcc-13

 

Skaa, I agree, it totally feels like it could have fit on Sel, though balance wise I don't think it would fit with other types of magic working on the same planet.

 

I feel that is the only problem with Rithmatics being in the cosmere, I think it just isn't as strong of a magic compared to most of the others, for anything other than just doing things in it's magic system (using rithmatics against like a mistborn or something would pretty much equal hiding in a box and hoping they don't just jump over the wall (very thick fracking LoF to make that as high as you could. haha)

[Kurkistan]

The Googledoc you posted in the CTcon thread had a link to a sound file in it. you could listen to the whole panel there https://soundcloud.com/gavin-king-4/brandon-spotlight-pcc-13

 

That doc is from the Phoenix Comicon, not Connecticon. To my knowledge, we have no recording from Connecticon.

[Crysanja]

uh i wouldnt say rithmatic-magic is weak compared to others.

 

we havent seen a calkling attack a person yet and dont know how long a drawn calkling can be effective.

 

a rithmatist could just draw some lines of forbiddens and is more or less protected from any mistling.

[Shardlet]

So, it has been confirmed by BS that rithmatics has a strong 'cognitive' aspect and was originally planned as a cosmere magic system.  However, BS said he did not limit himself to realmatic rules when writing the book so there are aspects which do not adhere to realmatics.

 

Q: I first asked about lines of forbiddance and the timing of the generation of the field particularly in reference to things like a Marks Cross or just general crossing lines of forbiddance.

 

A: (not verbatim) Rithmatics was originally designed as a cosmere magic system and is very cognitively (not the terminology he used, but the essence is the same) based.  The line (speaking of all rithmatic lines) takes effect when the rithmatist thinks it should.  A line could begin to take effect before the drawing of the line is completed.

 

Q: How strongly does rithmatics conform to realmatics?

 

A: (not verbatim)  It is not bound by realmatics.