Joe ST Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 A rather random musing all in all. We all know Hoid was 'at' the Shattering of Adonalsium into 16 Shards. I also assume that Sazed is the only 'person' to have held more than one Shard at a time. What I suggest is this: * Hoid was either a/the protector of Adonalsium * or Hoid was the destroyer/betrayer of Adonalsium, * and Sazed will be the one to bring all the shards back together. This is total speculation, but yeah Hoid is obviously being set up to be a rather important in the macro-story, and that Sazed is 'twice as powerful' as any of his counterparts now. I asked Brandon if Sazed was, say, as important as Hoid, his answer: Sazed is both more important and less important than Hoid. It depends on who you talk to and which story you're in. Maybe I'm just reading too much into this stuff 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 When did you ask Brandon that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 http://twitter.com/#!/BrandSanderson/status/24946947630563328 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I have had this same theory for a long long time, I think it occurred to me once I found out what Adonalsium was. The only thing different from your theort to mine is that I don't think that Hoid was a Destroyer/Betrayer of Adonalsium, all of the evidence we have points to him being a good guy. I kinda talked about how I thought Sazed was going to gather up all of the Shards and become Adonalsium 2.0 in my "Nature of Odium's Shard" thread, My theory was Odium is killing shardholders and taking a corrupted version of there power and Sazed was going to go and collect the unaltered power that was left behind and there would be an Anti-Adonalsium and a Adonalsium 2.0 and that there would be an epic battle between them that would determine the fate of the cosmere. I didnt convince a lot of people (I don't think anyone actually) a lot of people don't think you can take a shard if you already have one and that Sazed was able to get two of them by "cheating" and taking them at the same time. This led me to believe that until your shard changes your personality from what it was to whatever shard you hold you would be able to take more then one shard, and once you have multiple shards you retain more of what you once were and are able to get more shards. I'm not sure how many people believed but I still believe that Sazed is going to become the new Adonalsium. However, I no longer believe that Odium is on a quest to become an Anti-Adonalsium. I logged on to day and was going to add a new piece of evidence to my "Sazed will be Adonalsium 2.0" theory and concede that I am wrong about Odium. Because today as I was walking home from school I was listening to the HoA audio book and in it Sazed says somthing quite profound, but that at the time the book came out I dont think we had enough information to know how important it could be, It is on page 660 of the paperback version and is in the scene where the First Generation is telling Sazed about the Resolution, it is right after they are informed that the mists have disapeared. Sazed asks if this means preservation has returned, the kandra tell him this is impossible "Preservations power remains, for power cannot be destroyed. his mind, however was all but destroyed - for this was the sacrifice he made to imprison Ruin."....."The sliver remains, the shadow of self"....."Yes but that is not Preservation, just an image - a remnant. Now that Ruin has escaped, I think we can assume that even it has been destroyed"....."I think it is more, We could-".....(this is Sazed right here)"If Preservation has not returned, then has, perhaps, someone else taken up his power to use in this fight? Is that not what your teachings say will happen? That which Has been sundered must again begin to find it's whole." (emphasis added). Now, we don't know the original context of Sazed's quote but why would the Terris people refer to the loss and renewal of there god in the past tense? Unless, they were referring to the shattering of Adonalsium and it's reparation. They might not even have known what Adonalsium was but they were prophesying it's renewal. Also why would they say "must again to begin to find it's whole"? Has Adonalsium shattered before? Is it maybe a theological version of the Big Bang and Collapse? For one thing, I think we can take this to mean that Adonalsium is being renewed, possibly Sazed will be the new version of it but all we know is that when he took the Ruin and Preservation Shards he only began the renewal. Maybe I'm crazy but I am 100% convinced of my sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Or maybe, eventually, Sazed will 'split' into two personalities, rinse, repeat. What you say about Odium is good though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Or maybe, eventually, Sazed will 'split' into two personalities, rinse, repeat.What you say about Odium is good though Split after Adonalsium has been restored or before he becomes v2.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Split after Adonalsium has been restored or before he becomes v2.0? I meant, that the two shards he's holding will cause his personality to split into two chunks, each with the necessary 'qualities' befitting the resplit shardparts. Though I suspect it's more likely that the shards 'want' to be together, and might have more power when joined (as in like them needing to work together to create life). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well Sazed said when he took the shards that they belonged together and he had no idea how they ever came apart so I dont think they are going to be pulling him apart mentally/psychologically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well. This is interesting. The mist spirit is, as the next epigraph explains, the remnants of Preservation's mind. I don't delve into it too much in this book, even the epigraphs, but Preservation's consciousness is indeed separate from his power. However, his consciousness itself has a limited power. And that is what he used to bind Ruin.That did not weaken his power, which still protects the world. Instead, it cost him his mind, leaving behind only a faint shadow—like the mists' memory of Preservation, far removed from what he had once been. That consciousness attached to Preservation—like the one attached to Ruin—is a part of Adonalsium, which will eventually be explained. Suffice it to say that in a pinch, Preservation could draw upon the power of his own mind and use it to imprison Ruin. This was why he was able to pull of the trick, as Ruin wasn't expecting it. He might have anticipated an attack using Preservation's power, but not his mind—not knowing what burning his own mind would do. That is why Preservation's cage captured Ruin's own mind, but not his power. (Epigraphs M3:55)It seems like Adonalsium isn't entirely shattered. If the consciousness is still part of Adonalsium, then that means that it was only sort of shattered. It means there is still some central presence of Adonalsium, but probably not on the Physical Realm. But perhaps the Shard's minds are all in the same place in the Cognitive Realm, and the Power of Creation that is used for Allomancy is accessing the Spiritual Realm of Adonalsium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well. This is interesting. (Epigraphs M3:55) It seems like Adonalsium isn't entirely shattered. If the consciousness is still part of Adonalsium, then that means that it was only sort of shattered. It means there is still some central presence of Adonalsium, but probably not on the Physical Realm. But perhaps the Shard's minds are all in the same place in the Cognitive Realm, and the Power of Creation that is used for Allomancy is accessing the Spiritual Realm of Adonalsium. Yes, but if I remember correctly Sazed said that the minds weren't originally attached to the powers that they held and he had no idea how they got there,I wonder if thats how it originally shattered, People found this magical source of power and started to use it and broke the balance that it held and it got torn to pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Sazed says: "I sense shards of something from long ago, a fractured presence, something spanning the void. I have delved and searched and have only been able to come up with a single name: Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know." (Chapter 39, M3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Sazed says: "I sense shards of something from long ago, a fractured presence, something spanning the void. I have delved and searched and have only been able to come up with a single name: Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know." (Chapter 39, M3) I was thinking of chapter 55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Also will Sazed get the rest of preservation's and ruin's power which were broken off from the wholes? Atium and whatever the power was in the Well of ascension, or will he have to wait until they are recharged to take them up again and get the full power of those shards again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I would expect that the Shardpool-filling is a cognitive effort on the part of the Shardholder. And if they wanted to be whole again, they'd have to relieve the humans of their connections/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Sazed's notes (THoA's Epigraphs) state that the number 16 has significance in 'the structure of the universe' (paraphrased) which could mean his taking of 2 Shards a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I have a theory! (though it has little to back it up) I think that at some point, Sazed will restart the Pits of Hathsid. He may bury it deep underground, but I think that he will divert some of his power from Ruin and divert it there. Why? Because I believe that if all that atium comes back to him, that he will become slanted. He will then become slightly more Ruin than Preservation. We know that when Ruin=Preservation, that creation rules. Well if Ruin>Preservation, that could be troublesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Sazed's notes (THoA's Epigraphs) state that the number 16 has significance in 'the structure of the universe' (paraphrased) which could mean his taking of 2 Shards a bad thing? Yeah but if Adonalsium was originally one entity then wouldnt that be "bad" to? I think that the number 16 is the number of shards and that the shards "govern" the universe. Also I have an Idea on how Adonalsium shattered. Atium and Lerasium are the Body/Power of a god because the body and power are interchangeable. We also know that Adonalsium was at one time whole and that it is not any longer. we also know that there weren't always minds attached to the powers that they hold. What I think is that long ago (around the time of Dragonsteel) humanity discovered a source of God-Like power, someone figures out how to harness this power and uses it however by using it they break the natural balance of power and to restore that balance part of the power splits because it needs to be used but isn't and cant use it self now that someone is controlling the power this causes the power to split into several shards that each work according to their own nature but have no mindf to controll them. this creates a dangourous situation and certain individuals take the power of the seperate shards but are unable to controll them as they once were able to because of the specificity of their natures. Also on another note I think I figured out what Sazed now has for a shard. I think he now holds the Balance shard and is unable to use one power without using equal ammounts of the other power. This leads me to believe that the letter in WoK was written to him from hoid "He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited." Sazed would be very wary of using his powers because if he cant justify using more of one than the other than he couldnt use them. Hoid needs Sazed to see Imbalance between the "Good" shards and the "Bad" shards (I'm using those terms very loosely) because if Sazed sees Imbalance he can take a side to use his powers for. this could work both ways though, if Rayse and Bavadin convinced him the good guys were winning he would have to help the bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Balance seems... odd for a shard name. It seems like the others are more traits (Endowment, Odium, Honor, Ruin, Preservation) Perhaps Balance could be Justice, but that doesn't make sense that Ruin + Preservation = Justice. It seems like the text seems to imply that when Preservation and Ruin work together, they get Creation. That's how Scadrial was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Balance seems... odd for a shard name. It seems like the others are more traits (Endowment, Odium, Honor, Ruin, Preservation) Perhaps Balance could be Justice, but that doesn't make sense that Ruin + Preservation = Justice. It seems like the text seems to imply that when Preservation and Ruin work together, they get Creation. That's how Scadrial was made. I just choose Balance because the word is referenced so much in HoA Ruin tells Vin that the balance will drive her insane and "feruchemy is the power of balance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Feruchemy is a balance between Ruin and Preservation. Ruin + Preservation = Ruin + Preservation. I doubt they somehow merged into some other shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 There is precisely zero evidence that holding two Shards changes the intent of those Shards. They are merely two powers, connected through Sazed's mind. Since the name of a Shard is the Shard's intent, you can't say Sazed holds "Balance" or anything else. That's silly. It's false, and makes no sense. It's obvious that magic is caused in accordance with a Shard's intent. Changing the Shard's name would inherently change the magics they form. Obviously, the magics are not inherently changed, this implies that hey, Sazed just holds two Shards. Don't even think about changing their intents. You will make me cry from the sheer madness of doing such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Except that since each shard has a cognitive effect on the person who's holding it (how Ati eventually became Ruin), wouldn't the interactions of the shards be important to identify so we know how Sazed's mind will be shaped? Or do you believe that the two shards will balance each other out, and that the Sazed in AoL will be the same as the Sazed in HoA (although much more experienced)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 What I'm saying is that if Sazed is changed, you can't say he is changed according to some fictional Shard like "Balance". Saying that is not accurate. A new Shard was not created when Sazed took two powers. That's primarily what I'm talking about. It's pedantic, but it's important we are clear on these things. As for Sazed changing... 22. Will Sazed eventually go mad trying to hold two Shard's power at the same time (being pushed to two different Purposes simultaneously for millennia)? Why hasn't anyone else tried this trick before in the Cosmere?ANSWER: No. Since they're so opposite they work together to create a whole. However, after a LONG time it would change him as a person. Answer is paraphrased and not a direct quote. It's kind of a cop-out answer, so we still don't know how Sazed will change. My point remains, however. We cannot say "Sazed changed from holding Balance." We can say "Sazed changed from a combination of Ruin and Preservation." The latter is accurate to our current knowledge. The former is inaccurate except in wild, unfounded speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromptj Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Is each Shard's power equal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Equal how? We know that some Shards can see into the future more clearly than other Shards, so in that sense, no, they're not equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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