SPOILERS! ---Does Kaladin like Shallan, and Vice Versa?---

[Seloun]

 

As for the rest of your response, I believe I disagree with what you refers to as feelings... Thinking about someone for a few seconds is not having feelings and comparing your date to another man is not expressing feelings towards this other man. These are thoughts and as long neither Shallan and Kaladin are prompt to act on them, they remain thoughts. Feelings? If they were true feelings, they would not have remained idle.

 

Having feelings from someone is truly powerful and it does not stop with a few thoughts. What is a girl having feelings for a boy? It is trying to nearly stalk the boy such as to know his routine in order to increase the chances to potentially fall on him by pure happenstance. It is try to multiple the occasions to stumble on him, by pure hazard, just so you could talk to him for a few seconds. It is also siting on bus stop bench for hours because knowing the boy would come this way, eventually and when he finally does, you claim you have been there a few minutes ago. It is also getting invited to parties where you know he would be there or stalk others simply to get the chance to glimpse at him. It is to endlessly stroll at night on the side-walk with a dedication bordering on madness waiting for him to get out of his party just so you could be near him for a few minutes. It is having your every thoughts being dedicated towards him, not just a few single ones. It is drawing stupid hearts with your names in it, not simply thinking of him as a smoldering rock. It is having butterflies inside each time you think of that person. It also is refusing to give up when said boy kisses another much better girl. It is keeping on to the idiotic stalking technique in hope it won't work out.

 

 

So, again:

 

 

She looked gorgeous. Kaladin was willing to admit it, if only to himself. Brilliant red hair, ready smile. She said something clever; Kaladin could almost hear the words. He waited, hoping that she’d look toward him, meet his eyes across the short distance.

 

She didn’t. She rode on, and Kaladin felt like an utter fool. A part of him wanted to hate Adolin for holding her attention, but he found that he couldn’t. The truth was, he liked Adolin. And those two were good for one another. They fit.

 

Perhaps Kaladin could hate that.

 

He settled back down on a rock, bowing his head. The bridgemen crowded in around him. Hopefully they hadn’t seen Kaladin following Shallan with his eyes, straining to hear her voice. Renarin stood, like a shade, at the back of the group. The bridgemen were coming to accept him, but he still seemed very awkward around them. Of course, he seemed awkward around most people.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 929). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

1) Kaladin does in fact 'stalk' Shallan surreptitiously.

2) Kaladin explains why he doesn't act on his feelings: Adolin is his friend and he doesn't want to screw it up for him (also, Kaladin is obviously not certain about Shallan's feelings and probably would feel awkward acting like a creeper).

 

I'm not really sure why it's so impossible to believe that people can, in fact, control their actions despite their feelings. Just because Kaladin has feelings for Shallan doesn't mean he's going to whack Adolin or that it's his only concern in the world. That's not having 'feelings for' so much as being 'creepy obsessive stalker'. In particular it seems perfectly reasonable that Kaladin would be more concerned about his parents (whom he can in fact have feelings for at the same time as for Shallan) who are potentially in mortal danger than stalking Shallan.

 

As for the other direction - not going to quote Shallan's description of Kaladin again. There is no other example of someone thinking of anyone else in similar terms anywhere in the series as far as I know; not even close.

 

Again I'm not really sure how you arrive at your standard for 'having feelings for'. I don't see how those attributes apply to Adolin and Shallan (or pretty much anyone who has a relationship in the series, for that matter); doesn't the fact Adolin ends up saving Dalinar instead of Shallan at the bridge effectively contradict your standard? Or that Shallan does anything else besides hang out with Adolin? My point is not so much that that event proves Adolin doesn't have feelings for Shallan (or vice versa), but that your standards for 'having feelings for' seems pretty unreasonable. Going by this standard, Dalinar obviously never had feelings for Navani since he never killed Gavilar for her (heck, he married someone else).

 

Also, to further clarify -

 

 

This paragraph was in response to your own where you stated Kaladin was the poster boy for every heroine novel... He indeed is which is why having him end up with Shallan is bad, predictable and horribly cliche. It could be I am being misguided, but I have come to expect much more from Stormlight Archive than a cliche teenage girl flick.

 

My point is not that Kaladin is the poster boy for every heroine novel (I don't really agree with that statement to start with); my point is that this is Shallan's description of Kaladin (this is also what 'Adolin is the nice guy' phrase means: it's how Shallan views Adolin based on her own words). That is how she thinks of him.

[maxal]

1) Kaladin does in fact 'stalk' Shallan surreptitiously.

2) Kaladin explains why he doesn't act on his feelings: Adolin is his friend and he doesn't want to screw it up for him (also, Kaladin is obviously not certain about Shallan's feelings and probably would feel awkward acting like a creeper).

 

I'm not really sure why it's so impossible to believe that people can, in fact, control their actions despite their feelings. Just because Kaladin has feelings for Shallan doesn't mean he's going to whack Adolin or that it's his only concern in the world. That's not having 'feelings for' so much as being 'creepy obsessive stalker'. In particular it seems perfectly reasonable that Kaladin would be more concerned about his parents (whom he can in fact have feelings for at the same time as for Shallan) who are potentially in mortal danger than stalking Shallan.

 

My entire point is after that moment, Kaladin does not seek Shallan nor does she seek him. They are both revealed as Radiants at the end and they do not even try to get together. This tells me whatever it is that passed between them is not strong enough to be called feelings. His parents are not in the equation as it took 5 days before he got concerned by them, but upon arriving in the city, seeing Shallan was not one of his priority. It just wasn't and neither was it one of her priorities. If any of them had such deep feeling a romantic relationship is inevitable, then they would both have behave differently.

 

I never said Kaladin should whack Adolin, but he should have tried to find more of Shallan, to accidentally be near her, no to just behave as if nothing happened until he sees her and has a non-conclusive thought.

 

 

 

As for the other direction - not going to quote Shallan's description of Kaladin again. There is no other example of someone thinking of anyone else in similar terms anywhere in the series as far as I know; not even close.

 

Again I'm not really sure how you arrive at your standard for 'having feelings for'. I don't see how those attributes apply to Adolin and Shallan (or pretty much anyone who has a relationship in the series, for that matter); doesn't the fact Adolin ends up saving Dalinar instead of Shallan at the bridge effectively contradict your standard? Or that Shallan does anything else besides hang out with Adolin? My point is not so much that that event proves Adolin doesn't have feelings for Shallan (or vice versa), but that your standards for 'having feelings for' seems pretty unreasonable. Going by this standard, Dalinar obviously never had feelings for Navani since he never killed Gavilar for her (heck, he married someone else).

 

It does not matter what Shallan thinks or not of Kaladin, what matters is she does not care enough to do anything about it. Again, she has not even tried to see him after the chasm scene. Not once. I again failed to understand why thinking of him as a smoldering rock is proof she in enamored with him when she has exhibit none of the usual signs of having feelings for him. As for my standards, they are derived from real life, not just my own, but that of pretty much everyone I know. When people have feelings, they have more than one thought about the person. It just takes a lot more than that and right now whatever passed between Shallan and Kaladin is not love nor feelings, it is nothing more than thoughts. I thus failed to see why the most probable outcome is then falling deep into love and cuddling until the end of SA.

 

In fact, there are more reasons to believe these thoughts won't merge into anything more than friendships.

 

I never said these were applying to Shallan and Adolin. I said these were example of what feelings truly are. Shallan is not in love with Adolin, but she cares enough about him to have one of her first action as a Radiant be have the talk with him. She also cares enough to stop her precious work to hug him. I would not call it love, not yet, but there is something between these two that just isn't there between Kaladin and Shallan. However, had Shallan been in love with Kaladin or merely crushing on him: she would not have behave the same.

 

As for Adolin, it is rather low to bring the bridge scene... He had no choice to save his father and since we did not get his POV afterwards, we have no idea how he dealt with it. The fact remains Dalinar is the most important man alive. Adolin had an impossible choice. It is unjust to hold it against him. Adolin does have feelings for Shallan: he says so to Kaladin, but do not forget we get little POV from Adolin after part 3. We get his POV during the last battle: we did not get to see much of him in between. We have no idea what his thoughts were, but in the end, before he murders Shallan, he thinks of her and their relationship. The scene right before the bridge was the first one where Adolin acknowledge his feelings and after that: no more Adolin in the story. So it is impossible to gauge the extend of those said feelings, but we sure have plenty of Kaladin/Shallan POV.

 

Of course Dalinar has feelings for Navani: he avoided her for years and he tried to hide when he sees her to avoid having to deal with them. This is obvious. It could be Kaladin indeed have feelings for her and will try the Dalinar way, but there is not enough to conclude about it.

 

 

 

My point is not that Kaladin is the poster boy for every heroine novel (I don't really agree with that statement to start with); my point is that this is Shallan's description of Kaladin (this is also what 'Adolin is the nice guy' phrase means: it's how Shallan views Adolin based on her own words). That is how she thinks of him.

 

I am sorry but it was your sentence: you brought up the poster boy for a heroine novel point... not me and yes Shallan thinks of Kaladin as the bad, dark, moody guy (that always gets the girl) and of Adolin as the nice guy (that never gets the girl). However, the fact she rightly identify the component of a cliche love story does not mean she will chose Kaladin or that she even thought of choosing him.

 

In any advent, despite the fact I do not believe there is enough evidence in the matter, despite the fact I find Kaladin/Shallan a horrible match for various reasons, despite the fact I do not believe Shallan is having feelings for Kaladin and whatever Kaladin has for her is extremely mild, despite the fact it is the most told love story in the entire world, the greater majority of the fandom prefers this ship and there is nothing I can say that will sway anyone.

 

Kaladin and Shallan is the most popular ship for all the reasons you have said. My personal thoughts on the matter are mostly irrelevant. I have never managed to convince anyone to switch ships.

Edited August 14, 2015 by maxal

[mortalcoil]

So I gave up reading the last page.
but heres my theory for you all:
 
This will be one of shallans truths, either spoken when Adolin is around; "I love 2 people and cant decide between them" which will follow with  Adolin giving the "out of all the girls you're the only one I'e ever wanted to keep" speech thus we get Shallan-Adolin.
or I imagine them about to get married, shallan is lightweaving to create the perfect ceremony and pattern has been buzzing about a truth recently, she attempts to ignore him and it comes out in that she lightweaves Kaladin's head on Adolin and thus we get Shallan-Kaladin. and probably a dead Pattern. I like Pattern. I dont like this theory of mine.

[maxal]

What is the point of stepping into a thread is you have no intention to read it? 

[gbazz4]

This has been an interesting thread to read. A lot of good stuff has been cited by various people. Shout outs go to Maxal and Seloun for all they have written.

 

I tend to think that yes there is some evidence that Kaladin and Shallan are interested in each other. However, i don't feel that means they are going to end up together and i don't support the idea of them ending up together. Just because you have an interest doesn't mean you act upon those interests (plenty of people in relationships have interests in other people but they care about the person in their relationship more and won't act on their interests). I also see evidence she really cares for Adolin and i feel she will stay with him throughout the series. She may like Kaladin and find him interesting to think about, but i think she really likes Adolin and will be committed to him and not act on any interests she has in Kaladin. Besides, i think there will be some major issues that will pop up once she learns Kaladin killed her brother. I also think that since Adolin and Kaladin have grown into friends that he wouldn't steal Adolin's girlfriend. Somehow i think Syl would not feel too happy about Kaladin if he did that, just doesn't seem honorable to swoop in and take your friend's girlfriend.

 

I don't think Kaladin and Shallan getting together is necessary for the story. I think they can be close friends since they have a lot they can share together. But i think the great thing about this series it will be so long, we are going to be introduced to more characters, and I am sure Kaladin will be introduced to one that he can fall for and will make sense as well. Besides maybe magic turns Syl into a flesh and blood woman and boom! epic love! (j/k)

 

So ultimately, yes i think there is some evidence they like each other, but i just feel the way things are going that Adolin and Shallan will be together for the long haul.  

[maxal]

 

 

I tend to think that yes there is some evidence that Kaladin and Shallan are interested in each other. However, i don't feel that means they are going to end up together and i don't support the idea of them ending up together. Just because you have an interest doesn't mean you act upon those interests (plenty of people in relationships have interests in other people but they care about the person in their relationship more and won't act on their interests). I also see evidence she really cares for Adolin and i feel she will stay with him throughout the series. She may like Kaladin and find him interesting to think about, but i think she really likes Adolin and will be committed to him and not act on any interests she has in Kaladin.

 

That part here pretty much summarizes what I have been trying to say. An interest or thoughts do not equal feelings and do not mean concrete actions will be taken. It does not also mean, should Shallan decides to expand on those, it would end up in an healthy relationship either. 

 

There are many reason why I do not support this ship which I have expanded on abundantly. However, I do think the argument that is often overlooked is the fact she does like Adolin and she did commit herself to him despite not having to. For me, this means a lot more than a few thoughts on Kaladin.

[Confused]

What is the point of stepping into a thread is you have no intention to read it? 

 

Maxal, lighten up! MortalCoil  slogs through 2 pages of this stuff - much of which is repetitive - gets to the third page and decides to take a shot at humor. IT WAS MORTALCOIL'S FIRST POST!!! Upvote him or her, don’t criticize. (Plus, he or she is obviously a Hamlet fan: "slough off this mortal coil," from the "To be or not to be" speech. You gotta love that...)

 

My 2 cents: it’s WAY too early to predict who ends up with whom. Love develops through shared experiences and shared vulnerabilities, and these characters have known each other less than 2 months. Having said that, “pooping in my Shardplate” doesn’t exactly rank up there with “I killed my father.” To me, the gentle joshing and infatuation between Adolin and Shallan is a good foundation for a long-term relationship (free advice: if you’re physically attracted to your best friend, marry him or her). But the emotional intensity and life-threatening drama of the Chasm scene trumps all else.

 

I don’t have a horse in this race. And I question whether KR can even form long-term loving relationships with one another when they’re already bonded to someone else, their spren. If I were forced to bet, though, my money goes on Shalladin.

[maxal]

 

Maxal, lighten up! MortalCoil  slogs through 2 pages of this stuff - much of which is repetitive - gets to the third page and decides to take a shot at humor. IT WAS MORTALCOIL'S FIRST POST!!! Upvote him or her, don’t criticize. (Plus, he or she is obviously a Hamlet fan: "slough off this mortal coil," from the "To be or not to be" speech. You gotta love that...)

 

Let's just say getting into a thread by saying you are not interested in reading it is kind of rude towards the people who spent time trying to craft their thoughts and no I will not upvote it simply because it is his first post. I upvote the posts I feel deserve it and that specific post was not detailed enough for me to upvote it.

 

However, I was not the one who downvoted it as I do not publicly downvote people, especially not new comers, if that is what you are implying.

 

 

My 2 cents: it’s WAY too early to predict who ends up with whom. Love develops through shared experiences and shared vulnerabilities, and these characters have known each other less than 2 months. Having said that, “pooping in my Shardplate” doesn’t exactly rank up there with “I killed my father.” 

 

I depends. Admitting to having shat in your Shardplate, on purpose, may be more shameful for one person than admitting to have killed your father for another person. It truly depends on the person at hand and simply because one secret is lesser than another does not mean it is not a big deal to the person stating it. 

 

You can't compare secrets. 

 

Now, I am not saying Adolin's bathroom issues are the same as Shallan's murderous past, I am simply saying it may have been a big deal, to Adolin to admit as much, but this gets dampen by the fact everyone considers the later revelations to be much more relevant. They are, in the context of the story, but it does not mean Adolin has not shared what he thinks is a troublesome secret. The fact Shallan has a worst one does not lessen the fact he shared his intimacy with her.

 

Bathroom things are very, very intimate.... One test every relationship have to past is the bathroom one... Admitting you have physical needs, even if it is obvious everyone has some, is not always.... easy.... It demands something. 

 

So I think underestimating the shatting issue is wrong. He did share something and it was not as trivial as everyone takes it to be. 

[Edricanum Ingloria]

Awesome points from both maxal and Seloun. I'm gonna throw my weight behind Shallan-Adolin even though my heart originally desired Shallan-Kaladin, and here's why:

 

I think it just makes more sense for Adolin and Shallan to get together. What does Kaladin bring to the table? He's a Windrunner, yes, but ultimately his arc seems to be pointing towards a "reluctant hero lighteyes." The argument could be made that a relationship with a lighteyes could help him transition into his new status more easily, but with Kaladin heading home I'd wager that he will grow into that as he deals with the fallout of whatever awaits him at home. 

 

Kal has followed the Hero's Journey pretty well so far. It's worth noting that the Hero descends into the underworld where he faces the evil version of himself. This basically matches Kaladin's showdown with Szeth, the pseudo-Windrunner, to a t. (Funnily enough, the confrontation happens in the sky, which would be a clever reversal on Brandon's part). Essentially, he has completed this arc of character development, and now we wait to see what the consequences are. 

 

When I first read the interplay between Kal and Shallan, I wanted it to happen. But as the story progressed I came to realize that Adolin... I'm having a hard time putting this into words, but essentially a relationship with Adolin seems like it has more potential to advance the story. As has been pointed out, Adolin's character arc finally got some progression with the potential of marrying Shallan.

 

Adolin is still in the middle of his arc, and a pretty big wrench has been thrown into it now that his girlfriend from a minor house has suddenly become a Radiant. There's just so much potential for character development here that it makes me practically giddy with excitement.

 

Now I'm going to go into wild (and I mean wild) speculation, so I'll spoiler it for those who don't want to bother with that:

Now, if King Elhokar were to die, who would be next up in the line of succession? I don't recall the politics of Alethkar all that well, but would Adolin be anywhere close to the throne? The Coppermind wiki says Elhokar has a son though (the details on this are sparse), so this is way out of left field. Brandon would have to kill a lot of people to get to that point, but hey we have quite a few more books.

 

If Adolin somehow gets to the throne, he would need a consort, and he's already burned every eligible Alethi woman. Of course, the prospect of marrying a king would be very interesting to those women, but Shallan is a Radiant now, and that may be important.

 

Remember, there is a lot of stigma associated with the Radiants. Having a Lightweaver marry the king of Alethkar could do a lot for the public's perception of the Knights Radiant.

 

Please don't take all this too seriously as I don't believe it that much myself, but it could be an interesting development. Obviously there are a lot of obstacles to prevent this happening.

[Arondell]

 

I also strongly believe Kaladin is a horrible match for Shallan. I do believe he is a bad match in every single way, but I do not have time to detail it now. In any advent, it seems pretty useless. The forum is rooting more heavily for the Kaladin/Shallan ship so bringing more arguments for the Adolin/Shallan one seems completely pointless. 

 

I actually have a similar sentiment.  If perhaps not so strongly felt.  Shallan is bonded to spren who loves lies and using truths to create deception(Cryptic).    Kaladin is bonded to a spren who reveres truth and hates lies even to the point of being unhappy when truth is used in a deceptive fashion.  These attitudes are reflected in part by there bonded partners.  These differences in personality do not make for a stable long term relationship in my opinion.

[maxal]

Adolin is still in the middle of his arc, and a pretty big wrench has been thrown into it now that his girlfriend from a minor house has suddenly become a Radiant. There's just so much potential for character development here that it makes me practically giddy with excitement.

 

Yes. This has been one of my arguments. A relationship between Adolin and Shallan would make both characters progress more. Kaladin does not need a relationship with Shallan to evolve. Whatever he needs from her, he can get it through friendship: their relationship does not need to be romantic. However, it is clear to me Adolin and Shallan would never work as friends and whatever it is they need from each other can only happen via a romantic relationship.

 

In other words, Kaladin does not need to marry a lighteyed woman to overcome his prejudice. He does not need to marry one either to benefits from her cheering up capacity. Tien was his brother, not his girlfriend, which means he does not need this relationship to be romantic. Adolin however, clearly needs a romantic relationship to learn to open-up to a woman and to persevere instead of giving up immediately. His entire story arc has been built around him needing to marry. Also, him assessing his worth in an union were he is the lesser one: destitute prince with a criminal record against a glorious Radiant would make a very interesting story. Shallan, on her side, needs to learn to let people care for her, she needs to assess people may want to protect her without sheltering her. I do not see Kaladin being this man as he is not caring. He would let her be which would not result in Shallan getting much out of the union. Adolin would give her what she never had: a happy family.

 

 

 

Now I'm going to go into wild (and I mean wild) speculation, so I'll spoiler it for those who don't want to bother with that:

Now, if King Elhokar were to die, who would be next up in the line of succession? I don't recall the politics of Alethkar all that well, but would Adolin be anywhere close to the throne? The Coppermind wiki says Elhokar has a son though (the details on this are sparse), so this is way out of left field. Brandon would have to kill a lot of people to get to that point, but hey we have quite a few more books.

 

If Adolin somehow gets to the throne, he would need a consort, and he's already burned every eligible Alethi woman. Of course, the prospect of marrying a king would be very interesting to those women, but Shallan is a Radiant now, and that may be important.

 

Remember, there is a lot of stigma associated with the Radiants. Having a Lightweaver marry the king of Alethkar could do a lot for the public's perception of the Knights Radiant.

 

Please don't take all this too seriously as I don't believe it that much myself, but it could be an interesting development. Obviously there are a lot of obstacles to prevent this happening.

 

Not so wild...

 

I have one crack-pot theory Adolin and Shallan will end up king and queen of both Alethkar and Jah Keved. The royal family would be known for their golden and red locks and so would their descendants.

 

 

I actually have a similar sentiment.  If perhaps not so strongly felt.  Shallan is bonded to spren who loves lies and using truths to create deception(Cryptic).    Kaladin is bonded to a spren who reveres truth and hates lies even to the point of being unhappy when truth is used in a deceptive fashion.  These attitudes are reflected in part by there bonded partners.  These differences in personality do not make for a stable long term relationship in my opinion.

 

I was more thinking of the fact Kaladin is chronically depressed while Shallan is an eternal optimist. In the long run, I would see them wearing each other down. There is also the fact I do not see them building anything together such as being a family, having children, common goals other than fighting the voidbringers... while with Adolin I see her building these things. 

 

A lot of Shallan's past story was geared towards her family, her desire to have a happy childhood... I see her, eventually (well not now, but in the future), wanting a chance at building one, at being the mother she never had, at creating a happy family that would not be a lie and these things, I doubt she'd achieve them with Kaladin. Adolin however is quite the family guy. I see him with children. Plenty of children. Kaladin, I am not so sure. Perhaps in a few decades, but not in a foreseeable future.

Edited August 15, 2015 by maxal

[mortalcoil]

Now I'm going to go into wild (and I mean wild) speculation, so I'll spoiler it for those who don't want to bother with that:

Now, if King Elhokar were to die, who would be next up in the line of succession? I don't recall the politics of Alethkar all that well, but would Adolin be anywhere close to the throne? The Coppermind wiki says Elhokar has a son though (the details on this are sparse), so this is way out of left field. Brandon would have to kill a lot of people to get to that point, but hey we have quite a few more books.

 

If Adolin somehow gets to the throne, he would need a consort, and he's already burned every eligible Alethi woman. Of course, the prospect of marrying a king would be very interesting to those women, but Shallan is a Radiant now, and that may be important.

 

Remember, there is a lot of stigma associated with the Radiants. Having a Lightweaver marry the king of Alethkar could do a lot for the public's perception of the Knights Radiant.

 

Please don't take all this too seriously as I don't believe it that much myself, but it could be an interesting development. Obviously there are a lot of obstacles to prevent this happening.

I'm quite sure its been stated as him being third in-line for the throne behind said infant son and Dalinar. Dalinar may give up claim to the throne as a Radiant though. The status of said infant son is also up for some debate in the wake of the riots.

 

What is the point of stepping into a thread is you have no intention to read it? 

I read the first 2 pages, but after having finished WoK and WoR in about 3 weeks, i hit the wall of text at about 10 at night on the last page and went "nope". left my 2 cents and make sure any ignorances brought about from not reading the third page of the arguments were known. am now back to read it through.

 

 

Maxal, lighten up! MortalCoil  slogs through 2 pages of this stuff - much of which is repetitive - gets to the third page and decides to take a shot at humor. IT WAS MORTALCOIL'S FIRST POST!!! Upvote him or her, don’t criticize. (Plus, he or she is obviously a Hamlet fan: "slough off this mortal coil," from the "To be or not to be" speech. You gotta love that...)

 

<3. although really Mortalcoil came from my wow character death knight "hmm it would be wonderfully ironic to name him after the one thing hes missing: a mortal coil". I've stuck with it ever since.

 

[WayneSpren]

Truthfully I don't think adolin will live through the series, then again BS's reluctance to kill off important characters might change that. I would also like to see what Kaladin does in SA3 since he has arrived at hearthstone, I got a feeling there might be some awkwardness if laral is still alive.

 

Did you read​ HoA?? What is this "reluctance" he supposedly has?

​​Vin, Elend, Ati, and Leras all died.

[Patrick Star]

Did you read​ HoA?? What is this "reluctance" he supposedly has?

​​Vin, Elend, Ati, and Leras all died.

 

Don't forget Hoid's story to Kaladin in the jail.  That wasn't so much foreshadowing as Brandon saying "Hey! Kaladin's going to die!"

 

Hopefully, Kal learns from that story and changes his course of action so that he survives, but I'm not sure if that will happen.

[Mr Horrible]

My entire point is after that moment, Kaladin does not seek Shallan nor does she seek him. They are both revealed as Radiants at the end and they do not even try to get together. This tells me whatever it is that passed between them is not strong enough to be called feelings. His parents are not in the equation as it took 5 days before he got concerned by them, but upon arriving in the city, seeing Shallan was not one of his priority. It just wasn't and neither was it one of her priorities. If any of them had such deep feeling a romantic relationship is inevitable, then they would both have behave differently.

 

I never said Kaladin should whack Adolin, but he should have tried to find more of Shallan, to accidentally be near her, no to just behave as if nothing happened until he sees her and has a non-conclusive thought.

 

I feel like you're making much weaker arguments here than you were at the beginning of the thread. Direct quotes have been dragged out that roughly directly contradict what you're saying at the end. Your response to that is to want *more* contradictions? That seems terrible to me.

 

Kaladin 'liking' Shallan at the end of WoR is pretty simple to show, as Seloun has done (at least imo).

 

Ofc Shallan's potential feelings for Kaladin involve substantially more conjecture, as it stands now it seems to be on the very edge of a crush.

 

 also think that since Adolin and Kaladin have grown into friends that he wouldn't steal Adolin's girlfriend. Somehow i think Syl would not feel too happy about Kaladin if he did that, just doesn't seem honorable to swoop in and take your friend's girlfriend.

 

Hmm, that's strange, I would think that if anything Syl would be unhappy if Kaladin doesn't act on his feelings (if they continue in the future). Syl has shown that while she is an honourspren, she ultimately cares more about Kaladin than the others (in particular the issue with Kaladin having to kill Parshendi). Kaladin hasn't made an oath to stay away from Shallan, I really don't see the issue here.

 

This whole thing is starting to smack of a Gavilar/Navani/Dalinar parallel when you talk of Kaladin being morally unable to act on his feelings.

 

I actually have a similar sentiment.  If perhaps not so strongly felt.  Shallan is bonded to spren who loves lies and using truths to create deception(Cryptic).    Kaladin is bonded to a spren who reveres truth and hates lies even to the point of being unhappy when truth is used in a deceptive fashion.  These attitudes are reflected in part by there bonded partners.  These differences in personality do not make for a stable long term relationship in my opinion.

 

Indeed, there should logically be two rather huge issues here; Shallan's need to lie *should* drive a wedge between her and Kaladin naturally, however you should note that Kaladin is actually the one she is most honest with.

 

The other one is Kaladin's predisposition to try to protect everyone. I mean this issue is so big for Kaladin that it'll be a substantial part of his character development for him to find his answer here. However it's Adolin that Shallan reacts negatively to on this issue, not Kaladin.

 

I find this rather interesting as it doesn't work out like you'd logically expect in WoR.

[maxal]

I feel like you're making much weaker arguments here than you were at the beginning of the thread. Direct quotes have been dragged out that roughly directly contradict what you're saying at the end. Your response to that is to want *more* contradictions? That seems terrible to me.

 

Kaladin 'liking' Shallan at the end of WoR is pretty simple to show, as Seloun has done (at least imo).

 

Ofc Shallan's potential feelings for Kaladin involve substantially more conjecture, as it stands now it seems to be on the very edge of a crush.

 

There are only weak for those who are convinced the simple line of thought Shallan had once on Kaladin means she is irrevocably crushing on him. I tend to disagree as her later behavior does not speak of someone infatuated by Kaladin. As for Kaladin, whereas he did seem to stalk Shallan during their walk, he stops doing it once they arrive at Urithiru. 

 

The entire point of this particular argument is that neither Kaladin or Shallan seek each other presence after arriving to Urithiru, worst it is Adolin Shallan goes to. Now you may read this as you want, but the fact remains Shallan's actions are totally devoted to Adolin here, despite the fact she does not need him anymore. Kaladin has not even crossed her mind once after that one thought while they were walking.

 

"I need your Stormlight!" she said. "It -"

 

Was that Adolin? Shallan gasped, other thoughts fleeing for the moment as she spotted him in the front of the crowd, leaning on a bridgeman for support. Adolin was a mes, the left side of his face a patchwork of blood and bruises, his uniform ripped and bloodied. Shallan ran to him pulling him close.

 

Here, this is Shallan at the end. She was frantically trying to work out the oathgate until she sees Adolin and all thoughts evaporated. She does care about Adolin, a lot. Is it love? Probably not, not yet, but it still is a pretty good start.

 

However, if Shallan was infatuated or crushing on Kaladin, surely she would have behave differently. Not to mention their complete lack of interaction towards the end: infatuated people always find a way to interact and I have seen none of that between these two. It thus lead me to believe whatever thoughts they had are not romantic so to speak, not yet. 

 

I have never stated Kaladin does not have thoughts for Shallan, but to call it "like" or "love" or "crush" is heavily premature. The evidence on the matter is not strong nor fail proof. It is not enough exploited yet. We will see in SA3 where this goes, but I sincerely hope it won't go this particular way for reasons I believe I have listed somewhere.

 

 

The other one is Kaladin's predisposition to try to protect everyone. I mean this issue is so big for Kaladin that it'll be a substantial part of his character development for him to find his answer here. However it's Adolin that Shallan reacts negatively to on this issue, not Kaladin.

 

Kaladin never directly expressed the desire to protect Shallan which is why she never reacts negatively with him on that particular aspect. All in all, Kaladin and Shallan has had little interaction. Adolin is the one who said he would protect her, so she reacts negatively to him. It is safe to assume she would have react equally negatively had it been Kaladin saying the same words in the same manner.

Edited August 22, 2015 by maxal

[Mr Horrible]

There are only weak for those who are convinced the simple line of thought Shallan had once on Kaladin means she is irrevocably crushing on him. I tend to disagree as her later behavior does not speak of someone infatuated by Kaladin. As for Kaladin, whereas he did seem to stalk Shallan during their walk, he stops doing it once they arrive at Urithiru. 

 

Is anyone claiming that Shallan is infatuated with Kaladin? By arguing against a more severe argument instead of the reasonable one, you seem to be attempting to increase the evidence required. I mean I don't particularly enjoy it as it doesn't really contribute to a discussion imo.

 

The whole love == stalking thing is damnation ridiculous as well. Kaladin had a bunch of stuff going on when he exited the chasms, are you saying he should have been more concerned with his prospective love life than the impending assassination of the king that he OK'ed? Or how his bond with Syl and consequently his ability to protect others was effectively gone? The thing is that even without other stuff going on a character simply does not need to stalk their crush in order for readers to understand that said crush exists.

 

The entire point of this particular argument is that neither Kaladin or Shallan seek each other presence after arriving to Urithiru, worst it is Adolin Shallan goes to. Now you may read this as you want, but the fact remains Shallan's actions are totally devoted to Adolin here, despite the fact she does not need him anymore. Kaladin has not even crossed her mind once after that one thought while they were walking.

 

We had ~3 chapters after they all arrived at Urithiru? Not exactly a damning argument for a relationship that isn't existent in any aspect other than attraction.

 

I would also say Shallan is decidedly not "devoted" to Adolin. There's a lot of physical attraction there and an appreciation for Adolin's character, but devotion is a whole different ball park.

 

"I need your Stormlight!" she said. "It -"

 

Was that Adolin? Shallan gasped, other thoughts fleeing for the moment as she spotted him in the front of the crowd, leaning on a bridgeman for support. Adolin was a mes, the left side of his face a patchwork of blood and bruises, his uniform ripped and bloodied. Shallan ran to him pulling him close.

 

Here, this is Shallan at the end. She was frantically trying to work out the oathgate until she sees Adolin and all thoughts evaporated. She does care about Adolin, a lot. Is it love? Probably not, not yet, but it still is a pretty good start.

 

I agree that it is a good start. The problem really comes in with both Kaladin and the relative shallowness of Shallan and Adolin's interactions. At the start that relationship was *super* shallow with Shallan entirely faking it (aside from finding Adolin attractive), it got better over time, however in that same time we had some rather intense scenes between Kaladin and Shallan, with Kaladin explicitly attracted to her by the end.

 

This stuff is going to have to be dealt with, regardless of the resolution.

 

However, if Shallan was infatuated or crushing on Kaladin, surely she would have behave differently. Not to mention their complete lack of interaction towards the end: infatuated people always find a way to interact and I have seen none of that between these two. It thus lead me to believe whatever thoughts they had are not romantic so to speak, not yet. 

 

Differently than thinking of him like she did at the end of the book? We've only seen them consider each other once after the chasm (and no, I don't agree that they should be pining over each other more, there was a whole lot going on). On Kaladin's side it was a reasonably straight forward scene expressing his attraction to Shallan, on the reverse it was certainly less straight forward. However I think there was something there from Shallan's side, particularly considering she directly compared him to Adolin favourably and when you consider how Navani described Dalinar.

 

Now I believe I said I think Shallan's on the 'edge' of a crush on Kaladin, really by this I mean I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a direct scene confirming it even at the start of the next book, the groundwork seems to be there to me.

 

I have never stated Kaladin does not have thoughts for Shallan, but to call it "like" or "love" or "crush" is heavily premature. The evidence on the matter is not strong nor fail proof. It is not enough exploited yet. We will see in SA3 where this goes, but I sincerely hope it won't go this particular way for reasons I believe I have listed somewhere.

 

I'm going to relink the quote Seloun used on the first page:

 

"She looked gorgeous. Kaladin was willing to admit it, if only to himself. Brilliant red hair, ready smile. She said something clever; Kaladin could almost hear the words. He waited, hoping that she’d look toward him, meet his eyes across the short distance.

 

She didn’t. She rode on, and Kaladin felt like an utter fool. A part of him wanted to hate Adolin for holding her attention, but he found that he couldn’t. The truth was, he liked Adolin. And those two were good for one another. They fit.

 

Perhaps Kaladin could hate that."

 

Frankly I can't see a reasonable argument suggesting Kaladin doesn't 'like' Shallan based on this (which are his most recent thoughts on the matter).

 

Kaladin never directly expressed the desire to protect Shallan which is why she never reacts negatively with him on that particular aspect. All in all, Kaladin and Shallan has had little interaction. Adolin is the one who said he would protect her, so she reacts negatively to him. It is safe to assume she would have react equally negatively had it been Kaladin saying the same words in the same manner.

 

The issue could have been raised several times in the chasms and it was not, most notably when Kaladin decided to distract the chasmfiend.

 

I just find it interesting that the most obvious problems central to both characters' personalities weren't an issue at all.

[Musica]

Both sides make good arguments. The way I see it, the whole thing can go either way. We have a pretty good groundwork for a believable relationship between Shallan and either Kaladin or Adolin.

I think it is safe to say that a person can be attract- or even crush- on more than one person at the same time, as it is mostly a physical thing. 'Liking' someone in a romantic way is a deepening of that, something beyond the physical attraction. At the moment, I think both Adolin and Kaladin are 'crushing' on Shallan, or even more, while she is a bit more vague. There is attraction towards both men, but honestly her feeling could go either way from here.

One last thing- regarding the whole 'I won't be protected' issue:

In the chasm, Kaladin protected Shallan, and it was in the most natural way, simply a part of who he is, and she did not object because it was completely reasonable that the soldier trained for combat would take the lead in the situation and do the frontline fighting. There was no clash, and both had relied on each other's strength (Shallan by finding their way back, Kaladin by fighting the chasmfiend). They each acknowledged the other's abilities.

Kaladin protecting Shallan was simply an extension of both nature and immediate need.

With Adolin, he simply came out and announced that he will protect her, don't worry, which made her feel caged and edgy because of her past. Also, there was no give and take. It was 'I'll protect you, leave it all to me' instead of the contribution of skills that happened in the chasm. (Don't get me wrong, I know Adolin didn't actually mean to imply she should be comepletly depended on him or is unable to take care of herself, I'm just saying that's the way Shallan maybe felt).

So the difference were the circumstances, actions-versus-words, and the mutual acknowledgment of skills and abilities versus the one-sided intention.

Hope I managed to convey my thoughts...I'm half asleep and English isn't my native language=p

Edited August 22, 2015 by Dreamer

[maxal]

 

Is anyone claiming that Shallan is infatuated with Kaladin? By arguing against a more severe argument instead of the reasonable one, you seem to be attempting to increase the evidence required. I mean I don't particularly enjoy it as it doesn't really contribute to a discussion imo.

 

 

Sorry, but if you don't like it, why bother with it? I have used several arguments in favor of the other ship, several arguments is disfavor of the Kaladin/Shallan ship all through this thread and numerous others. 

 

The fact is people are not willing to take them because they have grown convinced the combination of the chasm scene and the few thoughts both characters exchange are a solid proof of their infatuation and their future engagement.

 

Based on that, there is nothing more I can add. I have tried to discuss the situation in all possible angles. Sometimes, when you look at a situation from another side, you see it differently, Obviously this is not working because as long as people are solidly convinced the two previous events will irrevocably lead to a Kaladin/Shallan union, there is no further arguments to be had. Anything I would bring to the table will be refuted because of the chasm scene and because of this line of thought you posted *again*.

 

My whole point was there is more to it than two quotes and one scene, but people are not digging into it. This is fine, but I have beaten this horse to his death. The argument has been going in circle. I keep stating the signs of a possible infatuation are not strong enough nor conclusive enough, but people keep launching back the same line with the same interpretation that it means something while I disagree it means what they think it means.

 

Another last point, Shallan is not Navani, so it is irrelevant to compare both opinions.

 

Edit

 

The entire commentary of this discussion depends on what we are arguing exactly.

 

Are we arguing as to which ship we prefer and why?

 

or

 

Are we arguing as to which ship shall sail?

 

If the answer is the second, I would state what we think absolutely does not matter. If Brandon wants to push forward the Shallan/Kaladin union, he will and if he wants to push forward the Shallan/Adolin one, he will as well. However, in one case, I do believe he has a lot more writing to do to make me, personally, believe it is 1) a good idea, 2) not a horrible cliche, 3) good for the story and for both characters development, 4) plausible.

 

I would also conclude by stating the fandom favored ship before the release of WoR was Shallarin... Even after the news of the engagement has reached the fans, Shallarin was still the ship bond to sail. Nearly every forumer was convinced Shallan and Adolin would never work... It was considered a much more obvious ship... and yet it drowned before it had chance to sail. 

 

What we fans believe or not does not matter one bit. 

 

The reason I perhaps sound so aggressive in this thread (not my intention, but a by-product of my own being, I get carried away at times) is I disagree the only viable ship, based on those few quotes and that one scene, is Shalladin. I disagree this is where the story is set to go, which does not mean it won't go this way. It is quite probable it will, I honestly do not know, but I simply do not believe we are able to state, right now, the future ship is Shalladin or Shadolin for that matter. 

 

Shallan/Adolin seems more obvious to me, more endearing, more interesting, more everything and it is a union I currently see working in the long run, by that I mean, 10 to 20 years down the road. 

Edited August 22, 2015 by maxal

[Mr Horrible]

Sorry, but if you don't like it, why bother with it? I have used several arguments in favor of the other ship, several arguments is disfavor of the Kaladin/Shallan ship all through this thread and numerous others. 

 

The fact is people are not willing to take them because they have grown convinced the combination of the chasm scene and the few thoughts both characters exchange are a solid proof of their infatuation and their future engagement.

 

Well I wanted to point out you weren't really addressing what was being claimed.

 

Based on that, there is nothing more I can add. I have tried to discuss the situation in all possible angles. Sometimes, when you look at a situation from another side, you see it differently, Obviously this is not working because as long as people are solidly convinced the two previous events will irrevocably lead to a Kaladin/Shallan union, there is no further arguments to be had. Anything I would bring to the table will be refuted because of the chasm scene and because of this line of thought you posted *again*.

 

My whole point was there is more to it than two quotes and one scene, but people are not digging into it. This is fine, but I have beaten this horse to his death. The argument has been going in circle. I keep stating the signs of a possible infatuation are not strong enough nor conclusive enough, but people keep launching back the same line with the same interpretation that it means something while I disagree it means what they think it means.

 

Another last point, Shallan is not Navani, so it is irrelevant to compare both opinions.

 

The problem for you is that those two quotes are the latest instances where we've seen Kaladin and Shallan think of each other.

 

Also note that there aren't that many examples of relationships in the Stormlight Archives and I just find it interesting that Shallan describes Kaladin in a similar way to how Navani described Dalinar. 

 

Edit

 

The entire commentary of this discussion depends on what we are arguing exactly.

 

Are we arguing as to which ship we prefer and why?

 

or

 

Are we arguing as to which ship shall sail?

 

I was trying to talk about the OP and what I believe the situation is.

 

If the answer is the second, I would state what we think absolutely does not matter. If Brandon wants to push forward the Shallan/Kaladin union, he will and if he wants to push forward the Shallan/Adolin one, he will as well. However, in one case, I do believe he has a lot more writing to do to make me, personally, believe it is 1) a good idea, 2) not a horrible cliche, 3) good for the story and for both characters development, 4) plausible.

 

I think it should be reasonably obvious that what we think about the chances of each pairing does not affect the outcome. However I should point out that the reverse causality should hopefully hold, the intended outcome should impact what we think the chances are as these things don't just come out of nowhere (hopefully).

 

I would also conclude by stating the fandom favored ship before the release of WoR was Shallarin... Even after the news of the engagement has reached the fans, Shallarin was still the ship bond to sail. Nearly every forumer was convinced Shallan and Adolin would never work... It was considered a much more obvious ship... and yet it drowned before it had chance to sail. 

 

I didn't really follow the fandom until shortly before WoR was released, however I did find the Shallarin push odd simply because it had very little to go on aside from which characters people thought would do well together. I think predicting romance at the end of TWoK was a bit of a fool's game because it didn't really feature in that book (aside from Dalinar/Navani and Shallan getting tricked).

 

What we fans believe or not does not matter one bit. 

 

The reason I perhaps sound so aggressive in this thread (not my intention, but a by-product of my own being, I get carried away at times) is I disagree the only viable ship, based on those few quotes and that one scene, is Shalladin. I disagree this is where the story is set to go, which does not mean it won't go this way. It is quite probable it will, I honestly do not know, but I simply do not believe we are able to state, right now, the future ship is Shalladin or Shadolin for that matter. 

 

Shallan/Adolin seems more obvious to me, more endearing, more interesting, more everything and it is a union I currently see working in the long run, by that I mean, 10 to 20 years down the road. 

 

I think the evidence is pointing towards Shalladin, however that doesn't mean it's the only viable ship, simply what I think is the most likely. 

 

I generally stay away from talking about what is the most endearing/interesting/functional as that is super subjective, unless there's a particularly egregious example of a dysfunctional relationship. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by Mr Horrible

[Darkness Ascendant]

I think Shallan is wary of Kaladin after what happened the last time she liked someone. They tried to murder her.

[maxal]

Well I wanted to point out you weren't really addressing what was being claimed.

 

I did. I said they weren't conclusive enough to draw the fail-proof conclusion Shallan would undeniably end up with Kaladin.

 

Also note that there aren't that many examples of relationships in the Stormlight Archives and I just find it interesting that Shallan describes Kaladin in a similar way to how Navani described Dalinar. 

 

Again, this is not an argument. Shallan is not Navani. The fact Navani reflects on Dalinar the same way Shallan reflects on Kaladin is irrelevant because what Navani finds attractive is most likely not the same as Shallan. There are not the same person. It cannot be use as an argument to further the discussion. 

 

You may claim it is foreshadowing, you may say you believe Brandon will mirror the past love triangle, which would be a correct analysis, but you cannot say the fact Shallan reflects on Kaladin is similar to Navani reflecting on Dalinar is a proof Shallan is pinning on Kaladin.

 

It means absolutely nothing. As for foreshadowing of a past love triangle, my thoughts are Brandon is playing with us here. He gave us strings so big everybody grabbed at them, but in the end, he has a different plan. 

 

 

I think it should be reasonably obvious that what we think about the chances of each pairing does not affect the outcome. However I should point out that the reverse causality should hopefully hold, the intended outcome should impact what we think the chances are as these things don't just come out of nowhere (hopefully).

 

Well... Have you ever read the Shallarin discussions prior to WoR release? Nobody ever gave the glimmer of a chance to the Shadolin ship as nobody could see it happening based on their reading of the characters at the time. And yet, it sailed. I am extremely wary of what the general consensus think is obvious and what it thinks isn't. 

 

I would go as far as to state a great number of readers immediately grabbed onto Shalladin during either the boots scene or the bickering as she was about to meet Adolin for the first time. I have read many commentaries on the matter and it is surprising the number of people who expected Shalladin based on these two scenes alone at a time where they had not read the dreaded chasm scene... I must admit, I thought so to at the time of my reading and I was seriously angry at seeing such a bad cliche being potentially carried forward. That being said, my point here is to state there is the possibility Brandon is playing with us all. He no doubt knows the Shallan/Kaladin potential ship is a recurrent widely used trope and people would grasp on it the second they see the first signs. He thus manages to trample the cards, to create tension simply by using a very common trope to his advantage.

 

Very clever. Very, very clever, but again not an indication of the outcome. However, one must praise Brandon for how he manages to stir our heads out.

 

 

I didn't really follow the fandom until shortly before WoR was released, however I did find the Shallarin push odd simply because it had very little to go on aside from which characters people thought would do well together. I think predicting romance at the end of TWoK was a bit of a fool's game because it didn't really feature in that book (aside from Dalinar/Navani and Shallan getting tricked).

 

It was a fool's game, but it was a game people still played. Shallarin existed because people thought scholarly Shallan would prefer supposedly assumed geeky, shy Renarin to brash, dumb Adolin... However, it highlights how what seems obvious to the readers may not be were the story is headed, especially when it comes to Adolin. He still is an under-develop character we are barely starting to know. How many more layers of Adolin are going to find into the next book? Who thought Adolin actually had a brain back in TWoK? At times, I feel we may actually know more about Renarin, despite his lack of POV, then we know about Adolin.

 

 

I think the evidence is pointing towards Shalladin, however that doesn't mean it's the only viable ship, simply what I think is the most likely. 

 

I do not think the potential Shallan/Kaladin union would be a happy one in the long run. A lot of people have used the Galivar/Navani/Dalinar love triangle to associate Kaladin with Dalinar and Adolin with Galivar to express their thoughts Kaladin was Shallan's one true love... which by no way constitute a valid argument, but it allows me to point out a fact. Simply because Navani would have been happier with moody, angry, dark Dalinar does not imply Shallan would be happy with the same.... 

 

Based on what I have seen of their personality so far, I do think Shallan and Adolin would make the happier union, in the long run.

[The Honor Spren]

I like the idea of the Shalladin ship but there is one major problem with it.

It's not gonna happen.

What I can see happening is this:

Shallan finds out about Kaladin killing Helaren and starts to feel hateful towards him, and even ever so slightly betrayed because she was starting to like him. Then she finds out that Adolin killed Sadeas. She feels confused because even though she can understand why he did it, it reminds her of something her father would have done. She eventually forgives Adolin starts courting him again or marries him. Kaladin comes back sees them together, feels confused, sees Shallan is being super cold to him, and hopefully starts looking elsewhere for a romantic relationship. Eventually, Shallan forgives him enough to fight with him against the Voidbringers.

Now, I am definitely not a fortuneteller, and am most likely wrong, but this is what I expect. Not what I hope for, but what I expect.

Rip it to shreds.

[maxal]

I like the idea of the Shalladin ship but there is one major problem with it.

It's not gonna happen.

What I can see happening is this:

Shallan finds out about Kaladin killing Helaren and starts to feel hateful towards him, and even ever so slightly betrayed because she was starting to like him. Then she finds out that Adolin killed Sadeas. She feels confused because even though she can understand why he did it, it reminds her of something her father would have done. She eventually forgives Adolin starts courting him again or marries him. Kaladin comes back sees them together, feels confused, sees Shallan is being super cold to him, and hopefully starts looking elsewhere for a romantic relationship. Eventually, Shallan forgives him enough to fight with him against the Voidbringers.

Now, I am definitely not a fortuneteller, and am most likely wrong, but this is what I expect. Not what I hope for, but what I expect.

Rip it to shreds.

 

A question for you, why would Shallan associate Adolin murdering Sadeas to her father? Her father tried to murder his own son because he tried to leave and marry the woman he loved. Out of love for her brother, she thus brought herself to strangle her own father... Adolin killed Sadeas out of love for his father and to protect him... 

 

Adolin did the exact same thing Shallan did, except the man he murdered was not his father... Sadeas may not have been actively harming anyone at the time, but he had said he would not relent until he did so.

 

So why would Shallan associate Adolin to her father?

Edited August 24, 2015 by maxal

[The Honor Spren]

A question for you, why would Shallan associate Adolin murdering his father to her father? Her father tried to murder his own son because he tried to leave and marry the woman he loved. Out of love for her brother, she thus brought herself to strangle her own father... Adolin killed Sadeas out of love for his father and to protect him... 

 

Adolin did the exact same thing Shallan did, except the man he murdered was not his father... Sadeas may not have been actively harming anyone at the time, but he had said he would not relent until he did so.

 

So why would Shallan associate Adolin to her father?

Hmmm. Good point. Never mind, I rescind that part of my headcannon.