Can We Talk About Shardplate?

[Curiosity]

I'm surprised that no one has brought this up.

 

 

 

QUESTION

My question was about Shards actually. So at the end of Words of Radiance Syl is turning into a Shardblade as well as other different weapons. And Kaladin has a whole bunch of Windspren around him. And I am wondering if that is a precursor to Shardplate? 

BRANDON SANDERSON

I think you are a very smart man and you are asking wise questions.

 

No, it's not direct confirmation, but it seems to be as close to a confirmation as we'll get until someone swears another Radiant oath. Besides, if you look at the WoB concerning Shardplate, it's mostly RAFO except for this one. (And the one saying that it's not crem.)

[Numuhuku]

Very inclined to believe that it's some extension of the Nahel bond. There seems to be a bit too much emphasis on the paired nature of plate and blade for the former to merely be some kind of elaborate fabrial. Not to mention the rough parity between number of suits of plate and blade in contemporary and flash back Roshar. If the two artifacts were created by vastly different methods, one would expect greater disparity between the number of plates and blades. 

 

 

Lets not forget all the miraculous characteristics that plate and blade have with eachother. Shape shifting to benefit the shardbearer, as well as summoning/dismissing the shards. That shared capability certainly suggests they have a fair amount in common.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

I have a theory that Shardplate is a Fabrial and that the reason it is able to do extroadinary things is that the Gemstones that power it also house the Surgebinder's, mini Spren?, ( Windrunners get Windspren etc. ). So the Windspren gets Bonded to the Plate and by extension to the Surgebinder, giving them a small amount of intelligence. By the Spren being inside the Plate it gives the Plate all of the abilities that the modern Plate does not have. Probs wrong but I think it's alright.

[natc]

Even the ones that don't glow are still fairly extraordinary though. The only relatively extraordinary thing we've seen Plate in visions do is get lashed properly by the person inside. Every other known feature from physical enhancement and shardblade resistance to to automatically compensating for bolts of lightning has been exhibited by the abandoned shardplate. Those gems get replaced on a regular basis from overstress and are presumably vacant

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

Even the ones that don't glow are still fairly extraordinary though. The only relatively extraordinary thing we've seen Plate in visions do is get lashed properly by the person inside. Every other known feature from physical enhancement and shardblade resistance to to automatically compensating for bolts of lightning has been exhibited by the abandoned shardplate. Those gems get replaced on a regular basis from overstress and are presumably vacant

I was thinking more along the lines of Surgebinding inside the Plate.

I can't see Spren being perfectly okay with Shardplate if it's made from the bodies of Spren. It doesn't matter if the Spren in question are not Nahel Spren, that are still Spren.

[Moogle]

I was thinking more along the lines of Surgebinding inside the Plate.

I can't see Spren being perfectly okay with Shardplate if it's made from the bodies of Spren. It doesn't matter if the Spren in question are not Nahel Spren, that are still Spren.

 

Honorspren apparently have hunts, attacking a type of spren I can't recall. I don't think they'd mind terribly if mindless spren were made into Plate. It'd be like people eating animals.

[HalfShard]

Honorspren apparently have hunts, attacking a type of spren I can't recall. I don't think they'd mind terribly if mindless spren were made into Plate. It'd be like people eating animals.

If that's true, we may have to consider spren morals. The Parshendi care about their seemingly mindless brethren in bondage, the Parsh-men. I know that's different because the Parsh-men are just in dull form, but still, I think there might be more to these 'hunts' than meets the eye. 

Also, when Pattern found out about eating, he freaked out, so I don't know if that metaphor works so well...

Edited March 31, 2015 by HalfShard

[Relytdragon]

What if shardblades are the remanant of honor, him being a dead shard and all, adonalsium shattered, why not honor?

[HalfShard]

What if shardblades are the remanant of honor, him being a dead shard and all, adonalsium shattered, why not honor?

Um... That is implied already. Splintered shards aren't a new topic in the Cosmere, and it's happened before. Plus, it was said that Tanavast was 'killed' by Odium, meaning that this is indeed true.

Edit: My original post wasn't very diplomatic. I would like to apologize to Relytdragon and anyone else who saw that post. I will keep in mind what happened here next time I consider posting something like that. Again, I'm sorry any of you had to see that.

Thank you for alerting me to how negative that sounded. I didn't realize it was so rude until I took a second look.

Edited April 27, 2015 by HalfShard

[ccstat]

Um... That is implied already. Splintered shards aren't a new topic in the Cosmere, and it's happened before. Plus, it was said that Tanavast was 'killed' by Odium, meaning that this is indeed true. Do the research before you ask a question that everyone knows the answer to.

That last bit came across rather harshly, HalfShard. Let's try to keep the forum welcoming to people with varying levels of cosmere-awareness. I know that when I first came to the forums I asked some very "obvious" questions and made speculations that had already been confirmed (or, more often, disproved)... even after trying to look things up. I've also noticed that finding previous discussions is much easier now that I am more familiar with the terminology of the site and know the sort of search terms to use. Even so, finding quotes from topics I remember being part of is still difficult sometimes.

 

If someone is asking the question or proposing a theory, it's because it is new to them. I like to see that validated rather than shut down.

[natc]

Well, Honor being dead is literally in the book, and the explosion of spren population is also noted in the books. Syl being a piece of god is yet again in there too.

Though it does take a bit of logic to piece together you don't even need to look up Honor for this, just Shards in general.

I agree with you about the negativity, but this particular fact is pretty much one of the more obvious ones regarding the nature of (Rosharan) shardblades.

[Patrick Star]

I still think that Shardplate is a glass-like material.

 

Here's a site that pretty much explains what's going on wtih glass: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/Glass/glass.html

 

If this was the case, it would explain shardplate melting, cracking (as opposed to denting), and being able to shift to conform to the wearer.

[Arook]

OK  I came into this late so much to talk about. I'm going to start with material. I think shard plate is a kind of crystallized form of storm light similar to like a super cooled solid. As it takes damage is chips away and cracks until its cohesion is to damaged and shatters melting away into stormlight. It being make from condensed stormlight accounts for its change in size from user to user

 

It can't just be an advanced fabrial because it regenerates from any piece if all you had was a hand and the rest had been crushed you could regrown the whole suit. Fabrials are based on what the radients did not necessarily what the Radiants did. Its has to have a greater cognitive presence then any normal object because it is all linked otherwise people would be growing plate from pieces all the time. As it sits plate if feed stormlight the armor will break down the old pieces. If regenerated from the chest piece it overrides the others. It being formed from spren that are non intelligent has sound footing.

 

Armor does have a mental link to the wearer maybe even when not powered I believe that they can disengage the armor. Dalinar mentally releases his glove after the for-brace is broken leaving it unable to function properly. 

 

As for gem hearts I am certain that they are exclusively emerald because they talk about the problem with the influx of money into the market making the rarest gem so common. Each gem is connected to an essence that ties it to soul casting for what can be. That is why Jasnah asks for a garnet to heal shallan she had gems just not a garnet to make blood. I don't think the type of gem matters in armor.

 

it is possible that the chest pieces responded to the wearers desire to power it with gems and created the place for them to hold the gems. That also works well for why Szeth has problems with the armor effecting his surges without the bond in place for the armor it does not work like it would and blocks his ability to infuse things. Infact he may not have the same control of storm light the Shallan shows with moving stormlight from gem to gem. He may only be able to use the surges and draw it in.

[Patrick Star]

OK  I came into this late so much to talk about. I'm going to start with material. I think shard plate is a kind of crystallized form of storm light similar to like a super cooled solid. As it takes damage is chips away and cracks until its cohesion is to damaged and shatters melting away into stormlight. It being make from condensed stormlight accounts for its change in size from user to user

 

A super cooled solid is not a crystal.  A crystal is a normal solid, a super cooled solid is amorphous, which is what glass is.  You cannot have a super cooled crystal, it is an oxyoron in terms of the chemistry.

[Arook]

A super cooled solid is not a crystal. A crystal is a normal solid, a super cooled solid is amorphous, which is what glass is. You cannot have a super cooled crystal, it is an oxyoron in terms of the chemistry.

It's also a imaginary element that I'm try to describe forgive me if have a hard time trying to describe it. I was saying it is like a crystal in composition but when it breaks it burns up like something that is super cooled evaporating into nothing instantly. Think liquid nitrogen reacting with anything room temp.

[Patrick Star]

It's also a imaginary element that I'm try to describe forgive me if have a hard time trying to describe it. I was saying it is like a crystal in composition but when it breaks it burns up like something that is super cooled evaporating into nothing instantly. Think liquid nitrogen reacting with anything room temp.

 

Liquid nitrogen isn't super cooled either.  It's very cold, but not super cooled.

 

The definition of super cool is "cool (a liquid) below its freezing point without solidification or crystallization." (thank you, google).

 

Glass is a super cooled liquid with a viscosity so high that it acts like an amorphous solid.  That's very different than a crystal.

[Arook]

Liquid nitrogen isn't super cooled either.  It's very cold, but not super cooled.

 

The definition of super cool is "cool (a liquid) below its freezing point without solidification or crystallization." (thank you, google).

 

Glass is a super cooled liquid with a viscosity so high that it acts like an amorphous solid.  That's very different than a crystal.

 

Right, but i'm not talking about glass i'm talking about an element that is imaginary and trying to describe its property. Also i never said liquid nitrogen is super cool its is just happens to be a liquid and boils off at room temp. Glass or crystal crack and fracture under stress the armor is clearly not glass or crystal as we know it. Next time I will make sure to just say really really really cold thing.

[Patrick Star]

Shardplate could also be a superheated crystalline solid.

 

The trick is figuring out why shardplate melts when it's struck, why it's cracked, and why it grows back faster with an existing piece.  Now that I think about it, superheating does sound like a better explanation.

 

And also, superheating doesn't mean that it has to be hot.  It just means that the temperature is higher than what should be required to make the material phase shift into a liquid (for example, a 35 degree Fahrenheit piece of ice).  That could be why the shardplate melts once it's struck, and why you're able to seed it (traditional solids are crystalline, and can be seeded).

[Arook]

That is true but I will say this I'm fairly certain the answer to why it grows back is magic. It would however make sense if the cognitive image it maintains is fixed and as such it attempts rebuild itself using storm light but that theory is predicated on the armor not being made of storm light. If it is just a piece of storm light fixed into shape by spren then it cant be a superheated meterial. It's hard to say just whether it is highly invested meterial like night blood or made of investiture

[natc]

We're trying to figure out the physical composition of the plate here. It doesn't matter if it was forged out of stormlight, if it physically exists and has mass it must have some sort of atomic/molecular structure. Even God Metal cannot defy that fact.

What that starfish is trying to bring up is a physical model that can be used to describe the physical behavior of shardplate. It's not going to be accurate when forged from magic as it stands, but physical models are rarely accurate in real life anyway.

[Patrick Star]

That is true but I will say this I'm fairly certain the answer to why it grows back is magic. It would however make sense if the cognitive image it maintains is fixed and as such it attempts rebuild itself using storm light but that theory is predicated on the armor not being made of storm light. If it is just a piece of storm light fixed into shape by spren then it cant be a superheated meterial. It's hard to say just whether it is highly invested meterial like night blood or made of investiture

 

Actually, the part with it growing back perfectly lines up with how seed crystals work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_crystal

 

And at room temperature, Stormlight is a light-emitting gas, as I have pointed out many times before.  That would mean that for Shardplate to be made out of pure stormlight, it would have to be superheated (or the equivalent for solids), otherwise it would be a gas.

[Arook]

We're trying to figure out the physical composition of the plate here. It doesn't matter if it was forged out of stormlight, if it physically exists and has mass it must have some sort of atomic/molecular structure. Even God Metal cannot defy that fact.

What that starfish is trying to bring up is a physical model that can be used to describe the physical behavior of shardplate. It's not going to be accurate when forged from magic as it stands, but physical models are rarely accurate in real life anyway.

Ya I could be a superheated form like he said I miss read that earlier we are basically talking about the same thing I just described it wrong. As for god metal defying that well a it Could. Anyways I agree with your speculation Patrick star sorry for the confusion

[natc]

You can melt down, forge, and alloy god metal to things. It clearly has metallic physical properties, especially when metallic arts are designed around atomic structure.

[Arook]

So your saying that it is crystalline in nature then not a superheated amorphous solid like Patrick star

[Patrick Star]

So your saying that it is crystalline in nature then not a superheated amorphous solid like Patrick star

 

I'm trying to decide whether it's a supercooled amorphous solid or a superheated crystalline solid.  Now that I'm looking at it more closely, the second option seems more likely.  The reason that I'm damnation-bent on the super idea is the melting that occurs when shardplate breaks, as there is no temperature change that would cause that, so superheating seems likely.  The broken plate is undergoing a phase change.