Vortaan Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I thought of this awhile ago and have now reread WoK twice in order to gather what evidence I can. So here's the theory: The Parshendi are the Dawnsingers, not the Voidbringers. However, parshmen ARE Voidbringers. Looking at it step by step: 1) Parshendi seem to be very involved with music. They sing all the time, they make musical instruments, and they seem to all know the same song and be able to sing it at the same time, no matter of distance involved. Conversely, parshmen do not sing, and there's little to no evidence that any single parshman knows the thoughts of any other parshman. It also seems that parshmen and Parshendi don't share this ability to sing, since one of the questions asked of Dalinar's expedition is where the music of the parshmen is. 2) No one speaks the Parshendi language that we see. No one understands the Dawnchant either. Is it possible that the Parshendi are singing in the language of the Dawnchant? 3) The Dawnsingers were help sent by the Almighty to make Roshar habitable for men. Looking at the cities, they seem to be crafted, probably using the Dawnshards. This leads me to believe that the Dawnshards are some kind of super Soulcaster. There is another terrain that characters have commented on looking as if it were made: the Shattered Plains. And who lives there? 4) The Parshendi seem in awe of Kaladin when he is using Stormlight. Is it because he's doing something they haven't seen before... or something they thought was lost? Any servant of Honor is likely to be happy to see a Knight Radiant, particularly since the Everstorm is coming. 5) Parshmen seem to be automatons for most purposes. In point of fact, they seem to lack free will. This is ludicrous. No species can evolve without the basic will to care for themselves and the drive to do so, yet parshmen from all accounts sit in the same spot you put them if out in the wild. What if that is because their will is Odium's? It would explain Jasnah's theory, and yet still allow for the odd, and honorable, behavior of the Parshendi. 6) Dawnsingers. The very name indicates that they at least could sing. Spren, except for Syl and Shallan's truthspren, don't seem to make noise. If the nahel bond is what allows spren to speak, then the Dawnsingers would either have to been in such a bond, probably with the Heralds... or they weren't spren. And if they weren't spren, something more solid like the Parshendi makes more sense than a nameless spirit that returns to the Tranquiline Halls. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunblesser Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 i liked it then, i like it even better now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
controlsdragon Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 The Parshendi do not speak in dawnchant. The Alethi can pronounce it and can recognize it but they have no idea what it means until Navani recognizes one of the things that Dalinar says during one of his visions. And Dawnchant was from the Heralds, who are not Parshendi. This is all towards the end of chapter 60, i would quote it but it is a lot and I have the ebook so I can't provide page numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The Parshendi do not speak in dawnchant. The Alethi can pronounce it and can recognize it but they have no idea what it means until Navani recognizes one of the things that Dalinar says during one of his visions. And Dawnchant was from the Heralds, who are not Parshendi. This is all towards the end of chapter 60, i would quote it but it is a lot and I have the ebook so I can't provide page numbers. I can't find a quote where it says that the Parshendi language is understood. However, you are correct that the Alethi can at least recognize the Dawnchant. However, it's Navani that points this out. Dalinar, Adolin, and Renarim have no idea what the Dawnchant sounds like. So my question would be, do you think the Parshendi spoke their language around Alethi women? The accounts of Dalinar's expedition makes it seem like they picked up Alethi very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) but wouldn't Adolin have recognized the language Dalinar was speaking in the visions if it was the same as the Parshendi language? Edited January 28, 2012 by CrazyRioter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunblesser Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 but how likely would adolin be to link the singing of his enemies to what he considers to be nonsensical ravings brought on by some kind of madness? would it even be possible in the heat of battle to pick out words or phrases? i think it highly doubtful that he even pays much attention to it. dalinar does, but that's because he's obsessing over the parshendi and what they're all about - adolin is in the fight far more completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I know this is old, but I'm going to bump it with consideration of the new information on the Parshendi. I think a couple of my points are made stronger by the new information, some of them maybe not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yeah, the readings blow parts one and five out of the water, though an interesting note on the Dawnchants is simply the fact that the Parshendi picked up Alethi superfast, and dawnchant is the language root. It wouldn't be recognized simply because not only does nobody pay attention, but it's not like the learned women ever go to the battlefield anyways to check things out. I suspect Jasnah's entrance will provide some interesting new factoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snote Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 I just stumbled across this post while googling looking for a quote or evidence that Adonalsium created the Dawn Singers. It's 2018 and you've been vindicated. You have my permission to do the Tekking101 "I called it!" dance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 Vortaan is occasionally smrt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thrill Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) that would be awesome Edited March 3, 2018 by The Thrill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 Let's get him some chouta to celebrate his smrtness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted March 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Oh this got moved. Neat! But yeah, I'm happy with what of it came true. I was wrong about the Voidbringers not being Parshenid... sort of? I think I am still correct about the link between Dawnchant and the Parshendi language, but I don't think they are speaking Dawnchant so much as a derivative language. I have no idea what the Dawnshards are though anymore. Something that is probably different from Soulcasters or the Honorblades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snote Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 The Dawnshards are pieces from 'The Stone of Ten Dawns" they are perfect gemstones like the King's/Honor's Drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 39 minutes ago, snote said: The Dawnshards are pieces from 'The Stone of Ten Dawns" they are perfect gemstones like the King's/Honor's Drop. Probably not, since according to Honor they were used to destroy Ashyn. I can't see how perfect gemstones would have allowed them to achieve that, though the name kind of fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snote Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 (edited) They are also said to "Bind any creature voidish or mortal" At the end of OB they bound The Thrill inside of one. You can say "Probably not" if you like but we know next to nothing about what happened on Ashyn. So little that using it as proof of anything is almost meaningless. That's like saying the creature that strides the Storm that Kal and Dalinar see is the Stormfather. It could be, but we don't know what it is. So any speculation related to it is exactly that, speculation. Sure, what I'm saying is speculation too but there is a lot more evidence pointing towards what I said being true. So much so that I am next to certain that I'm correct. I don't make that claim lightly and don't have any more evidence than you do but I'm not going to ignore the evidence I have simply because something happened on Ashyn that we know literally nothing about. BTW, it was also said that the surges were what destroyed the planet. It could have easily been a war for the Dawnshards or the Stone of Ten Dawns shattering that was the catalyst for the burning of Ashyn. I mean, can you provide me with any other piece of evidence besides that to make me doubt my theory? If not, without more information, Honor's claim about them doesn't undermine my theory at all. Edit: Also, in the Prologue of Oathrbinger Gavilar says that with the right gem you could bind even a god. I've wonder over and over again how, if men are of Honor and originate on Ashyn how Honor ended up on Roshar. It wouldn't make sense for him to have always been there if men weren't. Especially with the WoB that says that the Parshendi were not originally of Odium or Cultivation but never of Honor. Why not? So, to throw out an idea of how the Dawnshards could have caused the destruction of Ashyn and how Honor wound up on Roshar, the Dawnshards might have been used by Odium through men granted surges, to bind Honor inside of it and then somehow they escaped to Roshar with Honor inside the gem/s. This one I *know* is a wild theory but it's an answer to the hyphothetical you raised, "I don't see how perfect gemstones would have allowed them to achieve that." I could spend hours speculating on how they could have been used to destroy Ashyn. Not being able to imagine how that's possible is not grounds to discount that it's possibe. Edited March 4, 2018 by snote added text for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, snote said: They are also said to "Bind any creature voidish or mortal" At the end of OB they bound The Thrill inside of one. You can say "Probably not" if you like but we know next to nothing about what happened on Ashyn. So little that using it as proof of anything is almost meaningless. That's like saying the creature that strides the Storm that Kal and Dalinar see is the Stormfather. It could be, but we don't know what it is. So any speculation related to it is exactly that, speculation. Sure, what I'm saying is speculation too but there is a lot more evidence pointing towards what I said being true. So much so that I am next to certain that I'm correct. I don't make that claim lightly and don't have any more evidence than you do but I'm not going to ignore the evidence I have simply because something happened on Ashyn that we know literally nothing about. BTW, it was also said that the surges were what destroyed the planet. It could have easily been a war for the Dawnshards or the Stone of Ten Dawns shattering that was the catalyst for the burning of Ashyn. I mean, can you provide me with any other piece of evidence besides that to make me doubt my theory? If not, without more information, Honor's claim about them doesn't undermine my theory at all. Edit: Also, in the Prologue of Oathrbinger Gavilar says that with the right gem you could bind even a god. I've wonder over and over again how, if men are of Honor and originate on Ashyn how Honor ended up on Roshar. It wouldn't make sense for him to have always been there if men weren't. Especially with the WoB that says that the Parshendi were not originally of Odium or Cultivation but never of Honor. Why not? So, to throw out an idea of how the Dawnshards could have caused the destruction of Ashyn and how Honor wound up on Roshar, the Dawnshards might have been used by Odium through men granted surges, to bind Honor inside of it and then somehow they escaped to Roshar with Honor inside the gem/s. This one I *know* is a wild theory but it's an answer to the hyphothetical you raised, "I don't see how perfect gemstones would have allowed them to achieve that." I could spend hours speculating on how they could have been used to destroy Ashyn. Not being able to imagine how that's possible is not grounds to discount that it's possibe. It's a legend/tale that the King's Drop was a piece of the Stone of Ten Dawns. We don't actually know if it is or not. Given how much stuff their myths and tales get wrong on Roshar, I'd take that with a grain of salt. WoB is that Honor and Cultivation arrived on Roshar together. They were romantically involved. Odium came later. I don't think the humans in the Rosharan system were of Honor before they turned to him on Roshar the planet. We know that a number of humans on Ashyn gave Odium "an ear" and that he was "instrumental in what happened there." Given the other things that have been named "shards" in Stormlight so far, I would disagree that the Dawnshards are perfect gems. It seems too simple for the power that we've been told the Dawnshards have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snote Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Okay, well I'm sorry to disagree with you. Your speculation is no more valid than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 No worries. These are all guesses on all our parts, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 20 hours ago, snote said: Okay, well I'm sorry to disagree with you. Your speculation is no more valid than mine. And no less, so maybe don't bring your speculation as the absolute truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) On 3/4/2018 at 10:18 AM, snote said: Okay, well I'm sorry to disagree with you. Your speculation is no more valid than mine. Yeah, I know. My opinion is just that they aren't what you're speculating them to be. I didn't say mine was more valid. and the same can be said for yours. Edited March 5, 2018 by Spoolofwhool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snote Posted March 10, 2018 Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 The difference being mine has evidence in the text to back it up. A shard of the stone of ten dawns IS a "Dawn-Shard". There is no speculation to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted March 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, snote said: The difference being mine has evidence in the text to back it up. A shard of the stone of ten dawns IS a "Dawn-Shard". There is no speculation to that. Two things. One, maybe take the tone down a bit? You are coming across pretty confrontational in your posts, which I'm fairly sure is not your intention. Two, the perfect gemstones seem to be developed around the same time of the Recreance, given the epigraphs from the Elsecaller. That could have gone one of two ways. Either they could have been created around that time, or they could have been carved off the stone of ten dawns. If the first happened, then there wouldn't be a historical record of them prior to the Recreance. If the second happened, then there would also not be a historical record of them prior to the Recreance. I think a third option could be that the perfect gemstones are an attempt to recreate the power of the Dawnshards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 I still think Dawnshards are plagues from Ashyn *shrug* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) I have to re-check the books for the actual quote but Honor said the Dawnshards are Lost and not avaliable. We know at least of two Perfect gemstones (and I assume there would be much more) around on Roshar in places easily accessible by KR and Honor. This is a great contro to the Dawnshards=Perfect gemstones hypotesis. Also Honor in the same sentence points at the Dawnshards lost as a shame for the war aganist Odium and this pushes me to go aganist the plague hypotesis too. EDIT: Fixed some autocorrector's errors Edited March 12, 2018 by Yata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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