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Theory: Jezrien -- *spoilers*


discipleofhoid

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I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the Heralds were extremely powerful.

My personal theory is that Jezrien is evil. At the San Diego book signing, someone asked "Isn't it odd that Kalak describes the fighting as 'extremely fierce', but only one herald died?"

Brandon's answer was "Yes. There's definitely more going on there than meets the eye, but you'll have to read and find out."

This, combined with the arrogant tone he used for Jezrien's lines in his reading at the signing, make me guess is that Jezrien brokered some kind of deal with Odium to let him (and eight of the other heralds) off the hook.

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one thing-- if evil and stormfather go together, why do stormlight, surgebinding, and radiants/kaladin/good go together? I guess surgebinding is neutral, but it seems odd that the Jezrien would come through killing people with the violent high storms, and yet be simultaneously giving Kaladin the power he used to escape that death. I guess this wouldn't be difficult to write around, since I'm not even sure if it's a valid objection, but the surgebinding angle is one implication to consider if Jezrien is evil and the stormfather

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one thing-- if evil and stormfather go together, why do stormlight, surgebinding, and radiants/kaladin/good go together? I guess surgebinding is neutral, but it seems odd that the Jezrien would come through killing people with the violent high storms, and yet be simultaneously giving Kaladin the power he used to escape that death. I guess this wouldn't be difficult to write around, since I'm not even sure if it's a valid objection, but the surgebinding angle is one implication to consider if Jezrien is evil and the stormfather

Evil doesn't necessarily mean insane and bloodthirsty.

It's also possible that Jezrien just wanted out, and took a more proactive role than Kalak. You know, telling Odium "Let us leave... and we'll leave." That wouldn't even necessarily be evil, although I wouldn't call it good.

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This is a quote I made on TWG on the same topic:

Quote from: Wolfstar on September 11, 2010, 11:01:07 PM

I thought that the Stormfather was a Shard, and it was highly implied in my opinion that the Stormfather and the Almighty were one and the same.  It just made sense to me that Dalinar would have his visions during highstorms if this was true... because highstorms are the Stormfather's legacy on Roshar, and we know from the end that the visions are from the Almighty.

It is specifically stated by Sigzil that Stormfather was another name for Jezrien. It's in Chapter 55 (pg 768 on the UK version)

"Jenzien?" Malop said, standing and scratching his head. "Who's that?"

"You call him the Stormfather, here in Althkar," Sigzil said. "Or Jezerezeh'Elin. He was the King of Heralds. Master of storms, bringer of water and life, known for his fury and his temper, but also for his mercy."

It does sound here that Jenzien has some great power. Whether it is something connected with one of the ten essences, or a splinter of the shard of the Almighty (whatever the shard is called), I can only guess. But maybe this implies that the face seen in the high storm by Kaladin is Jenzien. In addition, the voice Kaladin hears in his dream where he is riding the high storm (it tells him that the oathpact has ended and Odium reigns) may also belong to Jenzien. Odium himself would never say that, and the Almighty is dead, so who else does it leave?

Thoughts anyone?

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Well the theory that Vorinism just ascribed more and more powers to the heralds because they were the only figures with names might explain the "jezrien=stormfather thing" although it does sound like a bit of a stretch. But weren't the Heralds mortal before they accepted the swords? I'd have to look back but that was the impression I got, and if that was so then how did he become/stay stormfather after walking away from the swords? Also, Kaladin's dream could've been from the almighty the same way Dalinar's visions were, and I'm pretty sure he had that dream in a high storm. That also brings the question of why the High Storms bring the visions (if Jezrien is not a good guy)  Also, the parshendi and the high storms both seem to come from the east.

The High Storms really seem to have something to do with the almighty for sure, since they bring both the visions and surgebinding. And the Almighty was called a name that meant change and a high storm does shake things up. and, although they are kinda violent, people don't really get hurt that much because they stay in doors, so maybe the almighty was directly responsible for the high storms and they're like left overs of his power. He could have left Jezrien in charge, although it still also doesn't make sense if Jezrien was broken and walked away for him to go on as Storm Father. He also could have showed up with knowledge of the storms or some control and gotten the name that way. The almighty might have left some entirely different guy as the actual stormfather.

Also, how exactly does the splintering of a shard work? Could the Almighty have recognized he was going to die and start the process in the hope of being able to just control it? and give some of the pieces to the Heralds, which would explain how he was able to still be around to see the Knights Radiant apparent betrayal.

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One thing to note is that the Almighty is there before the "last desolation". The Herald with the POV in the prelude uses it, talking about the king of the Heralds.

"Almighty, you're shattered too."

While that is certainly interesting, the exact quote is:

Almighty above, Kalak thought. You're broken too, aren't you?

It'd be more interesting if the word was "shattered". It's not.

Also, that quote doesn't necessarily imply that the Almighty wasn't dead. If the Almighty was alive, why not just have him fight Odium personally?

"Almighty above" could be metaphorical, referring to the place where the Almighty died fighting, maybe the Tranquiline Halls.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the Heralds were extremely powerful.

My personal theory is that Jezrien is evil. At the San Diego book signing, someone asked "Isn't it odd that Kalak describes the fighting as 'extremely fierce', but only one herald died?"

Brandon's answer was "Yes. There's definitely more going on there than meets the eye, but you'll have to read and find out."

This, combined with the arrogant tone he used for Jezrien's lines in his reading at the signing, make me guess is that Jezrien brokered some kind of deal with Odium to let him (and eight of the other heralds) off the hook.

I like this theory a lot.

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  • 1 year later...

I know that no one has posted on this in quite a while, but I want to expand on this theory... ;)

I agree with Munin - Jezrien is evil, or at least misguided... I don't think that he's the face that Kal sees in the storms though.

From the Prologue we know he's broken - but still regal

Jezrien’s voice was calm, deep, regal. Though he hadn’t worn a crown in centuries,his royal manner lingered. He always seemed to know what to do. 17

There, in Jezrien’s eyes, Kalak saw anguish and grief. Perhaps even cowardice. This was a man hanging from a cliff by a thread.

Almighty above, Kalak thought. You’re broken too,aren’t you? They all were. 18

He then starts espousing something that, at the very least, would make Syl uncomfortable:

“Better that one man should suffer than ten,”Jezrien whispered. He seemed so cold. Like a shadow caused by heat and light fallingon someone honorable and true, casting this black imitation behind. 19

This sounds eerily similar to Taravangian:

The king turned to Szeth. “It is better for one man to sin than for a people to be destroyed, wouldn’t you say, Szeth-son-son-Vallano?” 977

Even some of the descriptions of bearing are similar between the two:

Jezrien’s voice was calm, deep, regal. Though he hadn’t worn a crown in centuries,his royal manner lingered. He alwaysseemed to know what to do. 17
King Taravangian was no simpleton. He had keen eyes and a wise, knowing face,rimmed with a full white beard… 976

I think that Taravangian is Jezrien. I don't know if he's working for Odium or trying to make up for the poor decision to end the Oathpact. I think he's lost his way and is no longer the man that became a Herald.

Edited by Aoibheann
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There's two death quotes that mention Stormfather:

“The love of men is a frigid thing' date=' a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather…we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.”[/quote']
“The day was ours' date=' but they took it,” the boy cried. “Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!”[/quote']

I'm actually inclined to think that Stormfather is a title much like Stonesinew, and he's not actually considered malevolent. Note that stringing people up in Highstorms is called giving them to Stormfather's judgment, which would indicate that he's considered a good source of judgment and would actually spare innocent people instead of guilty ones. Maybe he's viewed as the Almighty's enforcer, a generally good guy who you nevertheless hope to avoid.

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That is an interesting theory. Assuming Taravangian is Jezrien, what did he go to the old magic for? and how has he kept his immortality secret?

Im not sure its plausible for a king to be a herald, unless he somehow killed the real/original Taravangian when he went looking for the old magic... but that doesnt seem to fit for me.

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You can do that yourself in the bottom left of the post there are a series of buttons, one of the ones you should see on your own posts is the delete button.

Thank you - I didn't see that option on the mobile version, but I found it on the full version. Sorry for making things more difficult.

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  • 2 years later...

I realized I hadn't updated this thread after my theory was debunked.  I asked Brandon at GenCon 2012.  No, Taravangian is not Jezrien or any other Herald.  

 

When I asked, Brandon looked around as if he really wanted to answer, but just said no.  Taravangian has something different going on (which we now know is the variable intelligence).  

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  • 1 month later...

IIRC, Jezrien mentioned that Ishar was the Herald, who proposed them to leave their Blades and lie to humanity, afterwards they talked about it and it was decided before Kalak arrived.

So, maybe it's not only Jezrien, but other Heralds too? Or, maybe Jezrien was the one being fooled?

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