02ranger

Thinking about soulcasting blood, could it be that when you soulcast blood inside a person their spiritual identity or whatever is providing the blueprint for the blood so that it’s correct for their body? Then when you soulcast outside of the body, like Shallan soulcasting that goblet, you can specify a blood type and some of the particulars and the magic makes the rest a sort of “one size fits all” for individuals with that blood type? Also, when would they ever soulcast blood outside of the body to put into a person? Are they medically advanced enough for blood transfusions?

The only possible issue I can see with that theory is that we have absolutely no stories of people randomly finding blades, not even some fanciful sword-in-the-stone type of stories. It seems like if there were any number of blades just hidden throughout the world that at least a small percentage would have been randomly found by now, and a percentage of those would have at least rumors attached that they were found rather than won. I don't really have a good alternative for where they're all at, though. I don't believe the Shin could have gathered all the shardblades that aren't currently owned by somebody. I suppose other groups could have searched out unclaimed blades in the past and stockpiled them someplace.....

I'm not sure there's an issue with Identity with either of my first two theories because the lesser spren would be controlled by either the Bladespren (theory 1) or the Radiant (theory 2) and that should be enough to key the Plate into their identity. Again, it's been a while since I read Oathbringer and I've only read it once so I very well could be forgetting something.

My thoughts on this issue are that the lesser spren are essentially being controlled by the greater spren to form plate and to facilitate the automatic communication and control of Shardplate through the Radiant's bonded spren. However the lesser spren never formed any bonds with the Radiant so when the Radiant breaks his/her oaths it doesn't kill the Platespren the same way the Bladespren die. Instead the Platespren get locked into the Plate form because the Bladespren can't release them from that form, but they're still alive. It's not a perfect theory because I would imagine the Stormfather and Syl would have a problem with the windspren (and other Platespren) being locked into a specific form for all eternity just like they do with the dead Bladespren, but maybe they really don't see it as the same thing. It could also be that the Platespren are seen more like animals in the eyes of the Stormfather and other Bladespren because they aren't sentient. It's been over a year since I read Oathbringer so if there's something in there that contradicts what I'm saying then please remind me. I'm about halfway through WoK on a reread now. Another thought that addresses Child of Hodor's point about the Platespren helping automatically, perhaps the Radiant has to learn to seize control of the Platespren to form Shardplate when needed, but it's only because of the Nahel bond that they're able to mentally control them and when they break the oaths and lose that bond they can't release the Platespren back into the world and they're stuck as Shardplate. Makes me wonder why none of the Radiants dismissed their armor before breaking their oaths, though. And for a darker theory, maybe the Platespren never return to their original forms. Maybe once they become Shardplate they're consumed........

There was a thread I started a while back about the major/minor spren Shardplate theory. Click below to check it out. Of course I personally subscribe to this theory, but don't have a LOT of evidence to support it.... http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/39972-possible-origin-of-shardplate-spoilers-wor/?hl=%20possible%20%20origin%20%20of%20%20shardplate

By all the credit I meant between the two of us you deserve the credit. I just piggy-backed off your Reddit post. I'm pretty much on the same page as you as far as how it's all developed. I could possibly see the solid stormlight thing being true, but definitely not fabrials. And of course I believe the spren theory is the most likely.

Yep, that's the post I saw! That's awesome! Great theory man and you deserve most of the credit for this, if not all. What do you think of how its evolved here?

Shardplate adjusts to the wearer's size too, so it's not too much of a stretch to believe the Oathgates can do the same if they're made from the same "materials". Although I'm not sure what to say about who is defining them. None of my ideas right now really make sense.....

I actually saw a recommendation for Way of Kings on a forum I read, and after I'd read that and WoR, I had to check out what else he'd written.

OK, so the title is pretty self-explanatory, and I know they aren't "always" opposite, but in each case we have a spren that sought out a person, they are opposite genders. Kaladin and Syl, Shallan and Pattern, Jasnah and Ivory, Lift and Wyndle, Ym and his spren (which was said to have a female voice). The only exception I can think of right now is Dalinar and the Stormfather, but in that case Dalinar bonded the Stormfather rather than the Stormfather searching out Dalinar. Is there a WoB about this or is it covered in the books somewhere and I missed it? Is it maybe just a quirk of Brandon's writing? Does it have any significance? Of course, there's also the question of whether gender means the same thing to a spren as a human, and I don't believe it does, but that still raises questions. If spren don't care about or have a gender and are just choosing forms for the physical realm, why are they choosing opposite gender forms?

I didn't really mean they look exactly asian, I was mostly referencing the eye shape. I've always been bad at interpreting skin color from a book, so I originally just assumed the tan color meant they were literally just tanned. After realizing their eyes have the epicanthic folds, I started thinking of tan as a typical chinese person's skin color, although I do know there is a wide range of skin colors in every ethnicity....

That's exactly how I see Szeth also. His head is almost grey-alien in its proprotions in my mind, but not so far as to look deformed. I think part of that is because on my first reading of both books, I didn't realize that the Alethi were asian in appearance, with that color of skin and eye shape, so I always saw the Alethi as normal caucasian unless otherwise described and when Szeth was described as being pale with large eyes, I came up with alien head. lol

What about Dalinar? He showed signs of using stormlight unconsciously before he bonded the Stormfather. As for Jasnah, when I read the prologue again I just did not see anything to indicate she was broken yet, but I know that's far from conclusive. As for Shallan, didn't she have access to Pattern from a very young age? IIRC, the reason her mother tried to kill her was that she was doing "unnatural" things, things relating to the Heralds. But wasn't her breaking event supposed to be when her mother died? It just seems like we've got two clear examples of surgebinding before the person breaks or bonds, one example of somebody I think is whole being trailed by her future spren, and one who was fully broken to pieces before his spren appeared. Seems inconclusive at best, which I guess is what you said. lol Actually I think Kaladin is a clear example of breaking then the spren shows up. Pretty much everybody agrees his breaking point was when Tien died and that was years before Syl ever appeared. I think everything that happened as a slave was just the pieces getting stomped, so to speak. He was definitely broken by Tien's death.

Is there any evidence, WoB or in the books, that says the bond HAS to start or spren have to appear after the breaking event? I posted last night a theory, in this thread, that the spren are attracted to their people before the person is broken and have a little evidence of that in Dalinar and Jasnah, possibly Shallan as well. It would explain why Jasnah apparently had just started experiencing effects from Ivory's presence in the prologue but there is little evidence of her being already broken.

I just reread the Jasnah WoR prologue, and I actually think she did break when her father died. She was obviously hurt by it and didn't seem broken to me before, although I know that's not concrete. I know the biggest argument against this is the belief she had already bonded Ivory, but this was clearly the first time she'd visited Shadesmar and the first time she saw the spren, but not the first time her shadow started acting up. The problem with that is she visited Shadesmar just before Gavilar's death, not after. But I'm wondering if the spren are attracted to their people before they're broken. Maybe they're there when the person breaks, ready to bond, and that's how Jasnah visited Shadesmar when she did. This doesn't seem to hold true for Kaladin but there is evidence that Shallan, Jasnah, and Dalinar either had experiences with their spren before breaking or exhibited symptoms of the bond before they were clearly bonded. Shallan had access to Pattern at a very young age and I "think" the thing that broke her was accomplished with Pattern, but that may not hold true. I don't remember the sequence of events that well. Jasnah visited Shadesmar before breaking, "if" I end up being right. That ones a big if. Dalinar experienced quite a few symptoms of the bond before bonding the Stormfather, such as aversion to Blades and using Stormlight to heal during battle before bonding the Stormfather, and one post said losing the Thrill was a symptom of that as well. Dalinar is my strongest example for this theory. This is only a sort of half theory right now. I wanted to post my thoughts while they're fresh so I don't forget. Any thoughts in support or against?

I guess I just didn't get the connection with the writing on the walls, though. I'm not sure why it didn't click, but like I said, I'm gonna watch Renarin more closely on this reading and I'm sure I'll catch things I missed the first time around. I think maybe part of why I missed so much of Renarin's plot in WoR is because he was pretty minor in WoK and I guess I expected him to remain that way.

I don't think it was here that I saw it either. I'm sure it was discussed when WoR came out, but I think I saw it on reddit. I don't think there was really enough that pointed to Renarin for most people to catch it. From what I read, the only evidence was the fact that he started scribbling stuff in the Oathgate and that was supposed to indicate he'd been writing it all along. There may have been more that the person I saw post it didn't catch, though. I'm about to start on WoR for my first reread, so I'm gonna watch Renarin a lot closer.

I always thought Moash was an old bald man, until I just started rereading WoK a week ago and saw he was Kaladin's age.

OK so IDK what happened, I thought I quoted you and thekingofpillowland but it completely deleted my response to you. Anyway, my head-canon for Syl's phrasing there is that since the Stormfather was watching at the time, maybe she spoke differently to impress him or because that's how they talk to each other at times. I know there's not really evidence for it, but that was the best I could come up with.

I agree that Renarin's reveal was kinda poor. I didn't even realize he was the one writing the countdown until I saw it posted online after I finished the book. I went back and reread his reveal and still don't get it. I know he's the one that wrote it, but I NEVER would have gotten that on my own. As for what I dislike, people have already mentioned it. It just seems like Kaladin wallows in guilt too long. I understand why he feels guilty, but it seems like he spends 90% of his time either beating himself up for stuff he couldn't help or second-guessing himself. It was a little much at times. Edit: The quote system went nuts on me.......

Maybe it's more an extreme desire to save someone or something. Your own life, Kelsier's wife, that sort of thing. Something you desperately want to protect, or preserve.

This makes a lot of sense. Its funny, I just read that portion of WoK and this didn't even occur to me, but Brandon doesn't include anything just to fill pages. The defined spren thing is definitely important somehow, and I really like this application of it. And since the major spren doesn't cease to exist entirely when the oaths are broken, maybe their "definition" of the Platespren would remain and that's how the spren got locked into Plate form. I really like this idea. As for the gemstones, I have no proof but I really believe they were added after the Radiants. I think eventually we'll see Kaladin get to a level where he's so efficient at holding in Stormlight that he doesn't have to worry about Plate draining him of it but he'll still be able to power the Plate. In fact, it could be as simple as the fact the helmet wasn't "his". Maybe if and when he is capable of generating his own Shardplate, it will interface better with him than others' Plate does. Or it could also be the fact that he wasn't wearing an entire suit, so maybe it isn't "sealed" until he is wearing a complete suit, although I kinda doubt this is the case.

Wait, you're a woman too? Is this the forum all the women on the internet come to? I keep hearing they're online somewhere but have yet to encounter any.......

I've noticed people are constantly sniffing, snorting, frowning, and raising an eyebrow in both Mistborn and Stormlight Archive. Might make a good drinking game, at least for as long as you can focus enough to read.......