02ranger

That line about being "beholden to another, particularly a man" is interesting. I hope we get some answers about her in this next book.

Well, I actually tried a few times but this was the "truest" result, as far as my answers. 53% Skybreaker 47% Bondsmith 32% Windrunner 31% Stoneward 16% Elsecaller 13%Truthwatcher

I agree completely with everything you said. I really don't see their relationship as being what broke Jasnah, and I really don't see it as being that bad of a relationship to begin with. It just seems like they're different kinds of people who don't do well around each other because they have different needs, but I really don't think that would be enough to break Jasnah. If it is then either Jasnah is a much weaker character than she appears (not likely) or the degree to which you need to be broken to form a Nahel bond is nowhere near as severe as it seems.

Which book does he see that? I don't really remember it and I've been rereading WoK lately and skimmed through the parts where he's discovering his abilities and couldn't find it. Does it happen in WoR?

People are worried about that? I've never really considered it, but even if it were possible for Syl to be trapped in a gem, I pity the poor soul that's dumb enough to try it when Kaladin finds out, Stormlight or no Stormlight.

I just found something else that I take to be support, although its circumstantial at best. In the Feverstone chapter, Dalinar sees a bunch of Radiants fall out of the sky, Windrunners I assume, and they all glow blue. Later, when Kaladin first bonds a stone to the wall, he sees tiny blue spren holding the stone to the wall. Syl calls these bindspren. Might these be the spren that make up the Windrunners' Shardplate instead of windspren?

So I think I just came across a little more support for the Shardplate Is Spren theory while rereading WoK. First, I remember Kaladin's mother mentioning that there are spren in everything, even inanimate objects. I discarded it as superstition at first, but when Shallan performs her first soulcasting, on the goblet, she surmises that she bribed the spren of the goblet with stormlight to change. Perhaps there's something similar happening with the Shardplate, along with the major/minor spren theory as well. It explains somewhat where the Stormlight comes into things. Anyway, it's not much of a discovery and it's not exactly buried information, but it is something that I had forgotten that seems to support my theory.

Do you think it's possible he didn't unbind it at all, but instead was unbound only after Sadeas bound it? Maybe Sadeas could take the Blade and, as long as Dalinar doesn't recall it first, bond it to himself and erase the old bond. We know it takes 5 days to bond it so it would be risky, but in that situation if the Blade just disappeared Sadeas would have no trouble figuring out that Dalinar was going back on their deal. I agree this doesn't really make sense, but if we're to assume it's all intentionally written as it is and not an oversight, then this is the best explanation I can come up with for the discrepancy......

That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a bond, though. That could have been a side-effect of the visions he was getting or simply his concscience overcoming the Thrill. When he made a concious effort to continue the fight, he was able to regain the Thrill that first time. If we were talking about Kaladin and his bond with Syl I'd be a little more receptive to the idea of early effects from it since she sought him out before he ever knew about her, but in the case of Dalinar he had to practically force the Stormfather to bond with him. I think the more likely scenario is that his visions from Honor caused him to start changing in ways that might normally have been delayed until he bonded the Stormfather. Why would he be affected by a bond that hasn't even occurred yet? That's the big question for me, I guess, because there's not really anything that shows the other Radiants were affected by their bonds before forming them. They were affected before they were aware of them, but Dalinar is a special case since he sought out his own spren and not the other way around, so his bond and his awareness of said bond started at the same time. As for the healing quote, I asked earlier but it likely got passed over. Wasn't that right after the battle with the Parshendi? If I'm remembering correctly, that reads more like he's thinking back to something he did during that battle. It doesn't sound like he's thinking of times he's healed himself in the distant past. Is it possible his visions started to change him physically, too? Preparing him to absorb Stormlight?

About Dalinar unbonding his Blade, there was a lot of other stuff going on with him at the time, too. He'd been feeling disgusted with fighting, losing the Thrill, questioning nearly everything about his people's way of life, and had just seen a huge number of his soldiers killed due to Sadeas' betrayal. On top of that, he was saved by the "dregs" of society, who acted more honorably than most lighteyes. I think a big part of why he so easily gave up that Blade and was later disturbed holding another had more to do with his feelings about war and fighting than his upcoming bond with the Stormfather. I'm not saying that had nothing to do with it, but I think it was more his personal feelings than anything, just like it was Kaladin's personal feelings about that Blade that wouldn't allow him to take it when he'd won it. I don't remember enough about WoR right now to say for sure, but I don't "think" there was any real evidence that his upcoming bond with the Stormfather had affected him in any way until he actually bonded with him, with the possible exception of healing with stormlight.

Gotta add this one that I just read: "It wasn't an admonition," Jasnah said, turning a page. "Simply an observation. I make them on occasion: Those books are musty. The sky is blue today. My ward is a smart-lipped reprobate."

That's a really interesting thought about the Nightwatcher boon. I've been thinking a lot about that lately and hadn't considered it being related to Gavilar yet.......... As for the rest. Maybe the extent you have to be broken or the way you're broken is different for each order, too? So far we don't have any two characters from the same order, so we don't really have any evidence to prove or disprove it, but maybe that's part of how it's decided what order you're in is what's wrong with you. Maybe that pain attracts specific types of spren just like the major values you hold attract certain spren. It would make sense that an order centered around protecting others would endure a really painful past, cause that would likely motivate their desire to protect others from that same fate. I guess it's all connected, as the way you're broken would influence your character and your character would influence what parts of you are vulnerable. Its an interesting way to look at the characters, I think.

Would that be enough to break her and open her up to a bond, though? How broken does somebody need to be to be able to form a bond with a spren? Kaladin and Shallan both had some pretty horrific stuff happen to them. Dalinar and Renarin don't seem to have been broken to the same extent, and we don't really know with Jasnah. Do we have any idea how far a person has to be pushed to be able to form a nahel bond?

That's what I was thinking but I didn't want to say the wrong thing on here without having my book to back it up. Regular gemstones just have stormlight infused, fabrials have living spren trapped inside. Seems like it could support the SIS (credit:Alfa) theory. At the very least it's not enough to discredit it.

If she was abused, who would have done it? There's evidence in this thread that she got along decently with her father, so he's probably out of the "running", so to speak. I don't see anybody else in her family being abusive given what we know of them, and who would attack the highprince/king's daughter? I know it could have happened and Jasnah just never told anybody, but she doesn't strike me as the type to be a quiet victim. I think if it happened she'd be strong enough to accuse them out loud. Unless it was while she was a child, but again it raises the question of who would be crazy enough to attack Gavilar's daughter? Not saying it isn't possible, in fact the more theories I read the more some sort of abuse seems likely in her past, I just wonder who would have been that bold.

It would be interesting to see if the half-shards have spren trapped in the gemstones. I remember something about trapping spren in gemstones in WoR. I REALLY need to get busy on this reread cause I've forgotten so much. Halfway through WoK.........

That's the part I didn't remember. I knew they covered what they were, but I didn't remember the 10 heartbeats being explained. I'm on my second reading now so hopefully some of this stuff will sink in a little more. Thanks!

So we all know now where the Shardblades come from and about the gemstones added to the pommel to allow them to be bonded. Do we ever find out why it takes 10 heartbeats to summon a dead Blade? I understand that it takes time to recall the dead spren, but I mean why 10 heartbeats specifically? What's the significance of that waiting period? I don't remember this being covered in WoR, but if it is then we can let this thread die.

It also really depends on Renarin's image of himself. Kaladin has yet to heal his slave brands because they're still a part of his self-image. I believe there's a WoB that says when Kaladin no longer sees himself as that person, he'll be able to heal his forehead. If Renarin's self-image includes that autism, he won't heal it. I think he healed his eyes cause nobody sees visual issues as part of themselves, but autism would be harder to separate I think.

You're right on both points. lol I can't ever remember the name of Shallan's order, and for some reason was thinking cryptic. I completely forgot about the highspren, but I'll change it to major and minor in the OP, just in case. Thanks for that!!

I was thinking maybe she was friendly outward but there could have been some inner monologue that gave more away. I just couldn't remember. You were perfectly clear. I personally don't think he contributed to her breaking either, I was just responding to the idea somebody else put forth that he was why she was broken. I think it likely was something else in her life. It's possible, I suppose, she just broke from being different from other people and how she was treated for those differences. I don't know how likely it is, but possible I guess. Do we really know how far a person has to be pushed to be broken, like we do with Snapping?

Sounds good to me. That's actually kinda what I read in the reddit thread that made me piece it all together in the first place. The only difference was that guy assumed each order had their highspren and lesser spren. Windrunners would be honorspren and windspren. Lightweavers had liespren and creationspren. Then whatever Wyndle is and lifespren. Basically each one would have their lesser spren that corresponds in some way to their order that they could use to create the Shardplate. In that case maybe gravityspren would work for Bondsmiths? Edit: Forgot the name of the lightweavers and also that cryptics and liespren are the same thing........

Yeah, I get it now. That's an interesting theory. I'll have to let it marinate a while. How did they make the half-shards in Jah Keved (I think that's where they were)? Did we ever get any information or decent descriptions on them? I know we saw them in a Szeth chapter but I don't have my book handy to check. That may give some clues about the construction of the original Shardplate.

Good points. I had forgotten about her prologue chapter. Although if he had been abusive towards her wouldn't we likely have seen something in the way she interacted with him in that chapter? Not necessarily anything blatant, but something? To be fair I don't remember that chapter very well, so maybe there was something off about it and I just don't remember.

I think prophesy/prophesying is the word I was looking for.