Shardcast: The Recreance


Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year's. We hope you're enjoying your holidays, so we thought we would bring you holiday cheer by talking about how a bunch of knights betrayed their oaths. Yup, the Recreance is very cheery. Note in this podcast has Oathbringer spoilers!

Today we have Kerry (KChan), Ian (WeiryWriter), and Eric (Chaos). I also did a different audio editing style on this one, which should hopefully fix volume issues. It did distort Kerry at one point, though. Also, our True Desolation--the war against us saying the word "like"--is not going the best, but it's noted and we are working on it.

Lastly, what things would you like us to discuss in the next year? I'm always terrified we will run out of content. Though we can't promise when or if we'd get to your idea, please let us know below!

 

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Another great episode. I'm glad you guys brought up the idea of spren being involved with the Recreance. All the spren we've heard about the Recreance from were children when it happened, and the previous generation was massacred. I'd be very surprised if those spren got everything about the Recreance right. 

Mathis made me wonder when and how the shattered plains were shattered. If it was done using surges, could it perhaps have served as further proof to the Radiants that they would destroy Roshar and contributed to the Recreance? 

I would really, really like a podcast on the legend told by Puuli's grandfather about sailors coming from the Origin, but I know there isn't much material there. Maybe a podcast on all the random interludes with that included. 

A YouTube video where you guys analyze which Shards you are sounds fun. I'd watch it. 

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ccstat

Posted (edited)

Great episode, thanks guys. I hadn't taken the time to go back and look over the death rattles yet, and while I feel at least one of them was misinterpreted here, most seem spot on.

I have to wonder, with the level of Shardic involvement we usually see in the cosmere, who exactly was Tanavast "raving" to? Does he talk to all the Radiants? To the order heads? To the bondsmith(s)? To the spren?

I'm glad you have a lot of weight to Kaladin's "mere formality" quote, because that was the one that made everything come together for me. 

One thought I've had is that those of us who found the recreance reveals underwhelming already live in a world where the uncomfortable questions of imperialism/colonialism and slavery/exploitation have a strong presence. Many of these characters, especially those of the generation involved in the recreance, may have reached more strongly than readers expect because it was their first real encounter with those painful ideas.

Edited by ccstat
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A couple notes: what the heck was that pronunciation of Elend?????? 

Also, we have seen a confirmed full Radiant- Nale. :lol:

I really want more discussion on what I'm terming the "Turn". When loyalties reversed. I am particularly curious as to why the Aimians sided with the humans. I was kind of disappointed when you stopped discussing that. 

Anyway, great discussion! You cleared up my current head canon quite a bit. I would also LOVE to have some more discussion on the Spiritual Realm. Even if Chaos hates discussing that. 

Oh, and I was surprised no one speculated that the Dawnshards are super-diseases. This is Ashyn after all. Ebola that gives you ultimate control of Soulcasting? That's pretty OP. 

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thejopen27

Posted (edited)

I think the incident that shows the Radiants the danger of their power, to prove to them that they were too dangerous to be used anymore, was the destruction of the minds of the Parsh. What one event would be so shocking to the rank and file Radiants that it would cause them doubts? The capture of Ba Ado Mishram and the resulting lobotomization of the Parsh seems like the only event shocking enough to scare the Radiants into the Recreance. 

The parsh were attacking near Fevrestone Keep during the abandonment of the tower. The Bondsmith and one other order (Truthwatchers? Elsecallers?) were preparing a counterattack to bind BAM, the Recreance happened soon afterwards. I assume the knights Dalinar sees abandoning their shards outside Fevrestone keep are knights who saw what happened to the Parsh and immediately decided their surges were too dangerous, while others quit over time.

We're the Shattered Plains created in the Last Desolation? 

Also, it seems obvious that Honor was going mad at the end, perhaps losing his personality and turning into a force.

 

In response to your Last Knight short story idea, the best candidate, who would also make a great story would be a Stoneward, one who thinks they can't give up and needs to find a last cause to die for, to fight for. 

I'm not sure the Radiants intentionally broke their oaths, at least not all of them. What oath do all Radiants share? Isn't the decision to destroy a whole people to end a war (intentional or not) a violation of Life before death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination?

Cultivation probably will sacrifice herself, but she will do it for a purpose, and having already Cultivated a new host to pick up her shard. 

The most obvious reason for a time skip after book five is that the contest of champions occurs and Odium is re-imprisoned, the books would repickup with Odium starting a new desolation. The Stormfather says that beating Odiums champion would buy the humans time.  He won't break out of Roshar until book 10.

Edited by thejopen27
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If Jasnah was full radiant, wouldn't she have Shardplate?

I think it was mentioned in Oathbringer that Radiants get Shardplate after swearing 4th(?) ideal. I think the windspren gathering around Kaladin in Shadesmar were there in anticipation of him swearing his next ideal. If he'd done it they'd have formed Shardplate for him. I wonder (if this is how it really works) if he'll have a school of windspren following him all the time with Syl as their commander in (mis)chief.

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I just recently discovered you guys, but I love it!! I can't get enough. If I have any ideas I'll send them your way.

Also, Nale is definitely "Nail" in pronunciation. And I've always said Elend with an elongated El at the beginning (so it's more El-end, rather than E-lend). Keep up the good work!

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hafje

Posted

After going through all the others Shardcasts, this one definitely sticks out. It's everything you could want from a cosmere podcast: analysing the text to such a degree that you derive beautiful (crazy) theories that actually sound quite convincing. Great job all of you! 

For the podcasts I would like to see: something on the herald and the oathpact revelations we got, perhaps together with a discussion on the fused and the parshendi side of the conflict. Maybe a Shardcast about Shadesmar cause we got a lot of that in Oathbringer. And I really want that Nightblood 2.0 conversation you promised! Also Odium his appearance and what Dalinar was doing in his 'Unity' - scene.

Yeah, I don't think you'll run out of ideas any time soon!

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Stormblessed Dolphin

Posted (edited)

Jasnah is pronounces yahs-nah? never knew..

 

so, maybe The Heralds came from Ashyn, after the migration? would make sense with the whole tranqualine halls thing.

Edited by Benjamin_Stormblessed
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geoffw35

Posted (edited)

After reading about the false desolation in the Coppermind, I went searching for a forum thread on the Recreance because I was convinced that the lobotomy/enslavement of the singers was a much stronger reason to break the bonds with their spren; I figured someone else must have come to this same conclusion. The timing of the Recreance and the end to the false desolation was just too appropriate to ignore. I had felt that the history of the human invasion and the fear stoked by Honor that they would destroy Roshar factored into the decision, but were not sufficient for the betrayal. The KR would have figured that their oaths would be enough to keep them from destroying Roshar. But this decision by the KR to enslave and lobotomize the singers was clearly a breaking of their oaths. The last straw, as you said in the discussion.

Thanks for the good shardcast!

Edited by geoffw35
clarification, grammar
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EddyJ

Posted

I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but do we know how the Shattered Plains got shattered in the first place? One of my theories is that the Plains were shattered by the Radiants and that was another contributing factor to the Recreance - like, "We've already gone and blown up Ashyn, now we broke Natanatan and if we're not careful we could break Roshar in the same way" kind of idea.

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Super late to the party here, but here goes! 

Have you guys considered maybe this is why the budding Radiant Bondsmith Gavilar chose his path? He has obviously been studying the histories and knows more than most. Maybe with aid of the visions he noted that those Radiants were Radiant in a time of mostly peace. By combining this with his urge to unify Alethkar through force he has decided that if those Radiants were not left to petty squabbles and were actually defending Roshar they wouldn't have just up and quit. They had incredible powers but essentially nothing to do with them except trying to go hunt down the Unmade that for some reason were not locked back on Damnation (maybe something to do with the Heralds abandoning Taln).

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