Conspiracy theory: Hoid is the opposing force of Adonalsium and the big bad of the Cosmere saga

[PeldePinda]

Let me start by saying that this isn't based on any evidence, I suck at picking up clues. I hope you can think of evidence in favour of this theory or rip it apart. It is based on what I think the plot of the overall Cosmere story needs.

Every story needs a struggle, and as we have already seen struggles between Shards, we need something bigger. The only thing that comes to mind is Adonalsium and its opposing force, that has a weapon and is still around (as by WOB). So is Sanderson going to do a Raymond Feist and pull a bigger threat out of his hat? No, that is not his style, the struggle between Ruin and Preservation and Sazed taking up both of them was already forshadowed in the Heroes of Ages profecy at the very start of Mistborn. The bigger threat can only be Adonalsium or its opposing force, so we have to look at something or someone and a weapon that existed before Adonalsium was shattered, and that has some kind of presence throughout Sanderson's work. The only candidate we have left is Hoid as the opposing force and the First Gem as a weapon.

Now we only need to determine what Hoid wants. We have seen Hoid opposing Rayse and Ati, but what if this is not because they are meanies, but because they each shattered Shards? As we have seen Sazed demonstrate, it is possible to take multiple fractured Shards and put them together. Theoretically someone could reassamble Adonalsium by shattering all Shards and then becoming the Vessel for them. As he (according to this theory) hates Adonalsium, it stands to reason he wishes to prevent this. From Hoid's conversation with Dalinar in which he said he'd let Roshar burn if he thought that was the right thing to do, we can tell that protecting Roshar is not the reason Hoid opposes Rayse, so he must have an ulterior motive, and I think this is it. 

Finally, you may wonder why I think Hoid is the villain and not the hero of this Cosmic struggle. I have two reasons: 

1. Dramatic effect. Sanderson loves plot twists, the emperor of Mistborn and Hrathen from Elantris turned out to be good guys after all, maybe he'll pull something like this off again at a larger scale.

2. Hoid is a dangerous fanatic. When he said he'd let Roshar burn for what he thought was right, it immediately shifted Hoid from a fun cameo character to a much darker character for me. Considering to let multiple genocides happen is some crazy fanatic stuff.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by PeldePinda
editing out swearing

[imriel452]

Language when posting please. Gonna be a grandad here, but avoid the swearing...

Also, what Shard did Ati shatter?

[PeldePinda]

Sorry about that. Preservation/Leras.

[PeldePinda]

I just read @Firerust 's theory, and what if 'Unite them' refers to the Shards? It would make sense that that is Adonalsium's current goal because it was shattered and wants to become whole again.

[Agent34]

1 hour ago, PeldePinda said:

Sorry about that. Preservation/Leras.

Preservation wasn't Splintered, Ruin was attempting to but Kelsier was able to take up the power and prevent it from happening. 

Brandon's alluded to the "anti-Adonalsium" being the 16 that orchestrated the Shattering

Quote

Eric

In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]?

Brandon Sanderson

You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that.

source

There are other WoBs on this subject and a fair few involve Brandon saying he'd count as a group of people as a force, this isn't outright confirmation though. So if that's what you're wanting I have nothing.

[goody153]

So Hoid is gonna pull an Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader aka simulatenously be the the doombringer and savior? 

[Ashspren]

My theory is that Hoid wants to bring someone back to life, as implied in The Traveler. However, doing so would upset the natural balance of the Cosmere. So, Era 4 Mistborn is about trying to stop him, making Hoid the ultimate and final villain. 

Towards the end of MBE4, I think the protagonist is going to try to convince Hoid that some things are best left alone. For an epic and tragic ending to the Cosmere, they will convince Hoid— but it will be too late, and the Cosmere as we know it will be destroyed. Then, in the epilogue or last chapter, we get hints of the Cosmere’s rebirth. 

Not a lot of evidence, but it’s just something that I think might happen. 

[Johhny_Eastland]

While I dont know that I agree with the specifics of your theory I do agree with your premise. My roommate and I have talked about this a lot. There seems to be a lot of evidence in the Cosmere that Hoid is an antagonist at some level. We know that most of the vessels do not like him. In letters and The Traveler we see that no one agrees with whatever his specific mission is. While he may not be a antagonist in the stories I would agree with your premise that Brandon is foreshadowing this for future more Cosmere-wide oriented books.  

[+Sorana]

On 26.8.2018 at 5:49 PM, Ashspren said:

Towards the end of MBE4, I think the protagonist is going to try to convince Hoid that some things are best left alone. For an epic and tragic ending to the Cosmere, they will convince Hoid— but it will be too late, and the Cosmere as we know it will be destroyed. Then, in the epilogue or last chapter, we get hints of the Cosmere’s rebirth. 

Not a lot of evidence, but it’s just something that I think might happen. 

I agree that we can be left with a destroyed Cosmere at the end. Or maybe he only destroys part of it (end of SA?) and keeps the rest. As sad as that would be, I can definitly see the plot going there.

What I'm not sure about is the whole "we have one big antagonist" thing. I don't think the Cosmere needs one sole ntagonist. I can see Hoid becoming an antagonist, he would be perfect for that, and partially already is. But I am not sure if he will become the sole, bad guy. There are a lot of others around that have to potential to make a great antagonist (e.g. Kelsier, Odium, Mraize, ...) and I feel like having several "good" guys and several "bad" guys would be more interessting, than the classical: "everybody works together to kill the big sole antagonist". And it could be way more devastating for the world. Only my opinion, there isn't any evidence pointing this way.

[Ashspren]

2 hours ago, Sorana said:

Or maybe he only destroys part of it (end of SA?)

I personally think that SA is going to end in failure, in some way or another. Either (a) Rayse destroys the Rosharan system, or (b) Rayse is set free to splinter other Shards in the Cosmere. 

[goody153]

On 8/26/2018 at 11:49 PM, Ashspren said:

My theory is that Hoid wants to bring someone back to life, as implied in The Traveler. However, doing so would upset the natural balance of the Cosmere. So, Era 4 Mistborn is about trying to stop him, making Hoid the ultimate and final villain. 

Towards the end of MBE4, I think the protagonist is going to try to convince Hoid that some things are best left alone. For an epic and tragic ending to the Cosmere, they will convince Hoid— but it will be too late, and the Cosmere as we know it will be destroyed. Then, in the epilogue or last chapter, we get hints of the Cosmere’s rebirth. 

Not a lot of evidence, but it’s just something that I think might happen. 

I agree with the bolded part that is his biggest motivation (or at least what he is waking up for) but i dunno about the rest. Tho i can certainly see it happening. 

[+Sorana]

7 hours ago, Ashspren said:

I personally think that SA is going to end in failure, in some way or another. Either (a) Rayse destroys the Rosharan system, or (b) Rayse is set free to splinter other Shards in the Cosmere. 

I support that notion to 100%. Something will go terribly wrong in the end.

[tmnsquirtle]

17 hours ago, Ashspren said:

I personally think that SA is going to end in failure, in some way or another. Either (a) Rayse destroys the Rosharan system, or (b) Rayse is set free to splinter other Shards in the Cosmere. 

The second is far less likely, IMO. I believe we have WoB confirmation that E4 mistborn takes place around the last 5 SA books, so setting up a whole huge conflict arc would leave the cosmere pretty unresolved... Honestly, I think it's more likely that they'll beat Odium in the first 5 books, then have to deal with the consequences of whatever happens in the next. Or maybe fight autonomy, or something. One of the best parts of Sanderson is that no matter how much prediction we do, he's usually a better writer than we are theorizers, so we'll end up with a shocking twist pretty much regardless 

[Toaster Retribution]

42 minutes ago, tmnsquirtle said:

I believe we have WoB confirmation that E4 mistborn takes place around the last 5 SA books,

I think you have gotten your eras mixed up. The current Mistborn Era (Era 2) is around the time of SA. Era 4 is far into the future :-)

As to the theory itself, I think Hoid will be an antagonist, and yes, maybe the big bad in the final Mistborn story. I also agree regarding the ”bringing back a dead person” theory, and I think that will be his motive. 

I don’t think Hoid is a bad person though. He cares about people a great deal, but there is probably someone dead who he cares even more about. 

[Wander89]

Putting it simply; Hoid is helping our "heroes" way too much to be an opposing force/"big bad".

[kalamitous_emoashions]

@Wander89 I disagree. We have no idea what Hoid's overall motives are currently. He could simply be helping our heroes as their motives currently align with his. We have also seen him explain before that he will let the world burn to meet his ends. 

There is nothing simple about Hoid, nor is there anything simple about how Sanderson puts together his narratives. Personally I very much like the idea of Hoid being an antagonist in Mistborn Era 4 and with Dragonsteel acting as the origin story that explains his background motives and actions. 

If there is one thing we have seen is that characters in Sanderson's novels are never ultimately good or bad, much like is the case with a lot of modern fantasy (Abercrombie, Lawrence, et al) characters are driven by specific ideals, motives, belief systems and influences, and while they can often be characterised into good or bad camps, in world they would not perceive themselves this way. 

Thus I think it is far too early to understand the character arc of Hoid given our lack of context and information. But I do subscribe to the camp of 'Hoid as an antogonist'.

[Wreith]

Rather than think Hoid *is* the antagonist, I believe everyone will *think* he's the antagonist by the end.
I like the theory that Adonalsium either planned for or instrumented its own shattering.
In keeping with that, I think it gave Hoid a task before that happened.

I also think that the behavior we see from Hoid at the end of Oathbringer is not in keeping with a "big bad" unless you try to argue that Hoid is attempting to remain morally neutral by doing enough "good" to counter-act the "bad" of his ultimate goal.

[Wander89]

1 hour ago, kalamitous_emoashions said:

@Wander89 I disagree. We have no idea what Hoid's overall motives are currently. He could simply be helping our heroes as their motives currently align with his. We have also seen him explain before that he will let the world burn to meet his ends. 

There is nothing simple about Hoid, nor is there anything simple about how Sanderson puts together his narratives. Personally I very much like the idea of Hoid being an antagonist in Mistborn Era 4 and with Dragonsteel acting as the origin story that explains his background motives and actions. 

If there is one thing we have seen is that characters in Sanderson's novels are never ultimately good or bad, much like is the case with a lot of modern fantasy (Abercrombie, Lawrence, et al) characters are driven by specific ideals, motives, belief systems and influences, and while they can often be characterised into good or bad camps, in world they would not perceive themselves this way. 

Thus I think it is far too early to understand the character arc of Hoid given our lack of context and information. But I do subscribe to the camp of 'Hoid as an antogonist'.

True, I agree that we have no idea and that Sanderson will probably throw us a curveball but the way that Hoid tells his stories, to me, doesn't sound "bad". We will find out in Dragonsteel the true intentions and yeah, won't be anything we expect as Sanderson doesn't do the good and the bad aspects.