PallonianFire Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 I've been seeing lots of places that Kelsier counts as a Sliver, which, ok. But when/how did he get his mitts on a Shard's power? I'm at a loss here. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure about the mechanics of how he did it. But he held it after Leras died (body dropped out of the mist) before Vin held it in HoA. Edit: He (Kelsier) was such a medler that he hung around after death to influence what he could. Edited June 13, 2013 by Shardlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) He grabbed a corner of preservation in his teeth after Leras died, and held onto the power until Vin could take it up more http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation/330/-Chapter-Fifty-Eight-Part-3 Kelsier Speaks The final thing I�ll note on this chapter is that the voice Spook hears after he�s pulled out the spike is actually Kelsier. You�ll see Kelsier�s voice pop up a few more times in the narrative, now that Preservation is dead. Ever the meddler, Kelsier can�t just sit around and let the world end. Preservation�s death left a void, and Kelsier has managed to piggyback his spirit just slightly onto Preservation�s power. He can�t do much, but he can reach out and whisper a few choice words to people. At least until Vin takes the power and shoves him out. I know I said he wouldn�t come back, but . . . well, he�s Kelsier. He doesn�t listen to what I say. He just does what he wants. http://www.brandonsanderson.com/annotation/339/mistborn-3-Chapter-Sixty-Four Spook was the only one in the crew he could speak to. That�s because Spook truly has faith in Kelsier as a deity—which, for these few weeks between Preservation�s death and the coming of the Hero of Ages, Kelsier is. Reddit This is an awesome answer! If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered? Thanks! No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous. It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial. Edited June 13, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 Ah, thanks! I was pretty puzzled about all of that. I know he was trying to stick around in the Cognitive Realm (yes?) but I didn't know that he was able to grab onto Preservation like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Honestly, the thing that has me most confused is this passage I'm. . .sorry, too, Sazed thought as the room grew dark, and he fell to his knees. I've failed. . .though I know not at what. I can't even answer Marsh's question. I don't know why I came here. He felt himself dying. It was an odd experience. His mind was resigned, yet confused, yet frustrated, yet slowly. . .having. . .trouble. . . Those weren't coins, a voice seemed to whisper. The thought rattled in his dying mind. The bag Marsh shot at you. Those weren't coins. They were rings, Sazed. Eight of them. You took out two—eyesight and hearing. You left the other ones where they were. In the pouch, tucked into your sash. Sazed collapsed, death coming upon him like a cold shadow. And yet, the thought rang true. Ten rings, embedded into his flesh. Touching him. Weight. Speed of body. Sight. Hearing. Touch. Scent. Strength. Speed of mind. Wakefulness. And health. He tapped gold. He didn't have to be wearing the metalmind to use it—he only had to be touching it. His chest stopped burning, and his vision snapped back into focus. His arm straightened, the bones reknitting as he drew upon several days' worth of health in a brief flash of power. He gasped, his mind recovering from its near death, but the goldmind restored a crisp clarity to his thoughts. The flesh healed around the metal. Sazed stood, pulling the empty bag from where it stuck from his skin, leaving the rings inside of him. He dropped it to the ground, the wound sealing, draining the last of the power from the goldmind. Marsh stopped at the mouth of the doorway, turning in surprise. Sazed's arm still throbbed, probably cracked, and his ribs were bruised. Such a short burst of health could only do so much. But he was alive. "You have betrayed us, Marsh," Sazed said. "I did not realize those spikes stole a man's soul, as well as his eyes." "You cannot fight me," Marsh replied quietly, his voice echoing in the dark room. "You are no warrior." Sazed smiled, feeling the small metalminds within him give him power. "Neither, I think, are you." I don't *think* it was preservation talking to Sazed. It could just be a hallucination, or I guess Ruin might just want to give people a reason to trust voices in their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartith Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I think in this situation that Sazed also believed in Kelsier as a diety. Sazed recorded the Church of the Survivor in his metalminds, and as he responds to Vin in book 1, when asked which of his stored religions he believes in, he replied something like "Why, all of them." If this is true, then Kelsier could have easily spoken to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Kelsier didn't have preservation's power at that point, since preservation was still around. (That, and we have WoB that "Spook was the only one in the crew he could speak to.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Preservation needed Sazed around, so it's quite likely he dropped by for a quick chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Preservation needed Sazed around, so it's quite likely he dropped by for a quick chat. Preservation isn't sane enough to chat, and can only read minds, not talk into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Doesn't have to be an outside influence, it could be Sazed's own intuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADIMORTIS Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 IIRC Ruin was of a invasive nature and could insert thoughts into a person and Preservation could hear the thoughts of a person . So the thing I have a problem is that how could Kelsier talk to in HoA while he 'hijacked' Preservation after Leras died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) There's been some discussion on this already. Spook was able to hear Kelsier because he had real faith in Kelsier's divinity. Spook was the only one in the crew he could speak to. That's because Spook truly has faith in Kelsier as a deity—which, for these few weeks between Preservation's death and the coming of the Hero of Ages, Kelsier is. source As for Vin hearing his voice before she takes up the mists... That voice at the end of the chapter is Kelsier, who can finally speak to Vin, now that her earring is gone. She's close enough to the mists and Preservation's power that he can touch Vin's mind or a brief moment and send a few words toward her. source Now watch as Phantom ninjas me whilst I post this XD Off-topic here, but reading these annotations again I stumbled across this, which I had forgotten about: As has been established, Ruin's control over creatures—and, indeed, an Allomancer's control over them—grows weaker when that creature is going through some extreme emotions. (Like the koloss blood frenzy.) This has to do with the relationship between the Cognitive Realm, the Physical Realm, and the Spiritual Realm—of which I don't have time to speak right now. Suffice it to say that there are people who have Snapped because of intense joy or other emotions. It just doesn't happen as frequently and is more difficult to control. I don't know if this means anything to anyone, but it's in interesting tidbit, and might possibly influence some pet theories people are nursing. Edited June 28, 2013 by Senor Feesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claincy Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 If extreme positive emotional states could snap someone as well, that could be a very useful thing. Just thinking about the potential application of duralumin and zinc as a method for snapping people. If that could work, filling someone with ludicrous amounts of joy would be a lot nicer than the final empire noble's tactic of giving them a nearly deadly beating. Less of a recuperation period too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) The Lord Ruler knew how to force-snap people http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=500ed08ea6dcb007010aa2be1a4451df&topic=6655.msg129384#msg129384 1) How did Inquisitors find Atium mistings? They spike the drinks at one of the nobility's balls with trace amounts of Atium, then cause a bit disturbance. (Often, the Inquisitors themselves arriving will do it) and burn bronze and watch for brief pulses. The body will burn metals instinctively if it can, which has been shown quite often in the series. This is also how they get a lot of their secret information about who is a Misting and who isn't. It's not a perfect method, since you have to watch for Copperclouds messing things up, but it is effective once in a while. Any time an obligator who is not a Misting joins the Ministry, he is unknowingly given a larger chunk of atium and then forced into a series of rituals that will drain him physically and get the body to react and burn the metal. This was how Yomen was discovered. Or knew, at least, since sazed changed it http://brandonsanderson.com/article/93/Tweets-November-14-16-2011 Fyodor32768 Mon Nov 14 @BrandSanderson, in alloy of law are people still Snapping? #torchat BrandSanderson Mon Nov 14 @Fyodor32768 Sazed chose to alter the way Snapping works. It bothered him. It does happen, but differently. #torchat Edited June 30, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claincy Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 The copperclouds wouldn't really be toooo much of a problem as most inquisitors had spikes granting bronze in addition to already having bronze. Though they would make it harder. Though, that method described would still only get people who already snapped, to the best of my knowledge you have to have snapped to burn isntinctively and the arrival of an inquisitor at a ball wouldn't be enough to force-snap people. The bit with the obligators appears to act on the same principal as the noble beatings. Except perhaps a bit more reliably succesful and a bit less dangerous. Though yes, given Harmony's changes I guess how it used to work is less relevant now Has brandon ever said anything about in what way he changed it? (I haven't been able to find any but could have missed them). I'm guessing whatever changes he made were such that the practice of beating adolescents to unlock allomantic potential would no longer work, or at least there would be a better way. As I think that was the big part of why he changed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Though, that method described would still only get people who already snapped, to the best of my knowledge you have to have snapped to burn isntinctively and the arrival of an inquisitor at a ball wouldn't be enough to force-snap people. The bit with the obligators appears to act on the same principal as the noble beatings. Except perhaps a bit more reliably succesful and a bit less dangerous.Fortunately, nobles beat their kids enough to snap them. Atium mistings just don't realize they have any power - presumably the inquisitors would spike with atium and... I dunno, iron, to tell if there were mistborn among the atium mistings. And yeah Brandon is being close-lipped. It's a good question, but he isn't explaining the details. It apparently isn't the mists, and it's easier to hit the threshold of allomantic snapping... http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1398-west-jordan-transcription-of-qa/ Q. How does Snapping work now? You said that Sazed changed it. A. Uh, RAFO. That is a good question though. Q. Not even a little hint? A. Nah, I don’t think so. http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?topic=6655.msg129157#msg129157 Dalenthas (15 October 2008) When the Mists come back, will they continue Snapping people? Brandon Sanderson (16 October 2008) No. The mists will revert back to their more neutral state. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/page-4#entry42113 Kchan How does Snapping work after Sazed changed it? If you don't want to reveal it all right now, are there any hints you can give us? Brandon Sanderson He couldn't get rid of this entirely. I don't want to spoil things, but Snapping was built into Allomancy primarily because of larger-scale magical issues. This is getting deep into the issue, but it has to do with a person's spiritual makeup and a 'wounded' spirit being easier to fill with something else, kind of like a cut would let something into the bloodstream. Sazed made this threshold on Scadrial much easier to obtain. Edited June 30, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claincy Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 That was a clever method for discovering seer's (and allomancers in general). But it appears the lord ruler was only as aware as everyone else of mehods to snap people, beat them close to death. Aint the final empire lovely =) Anyway, had seen the first two quotes before, him very helpfully telling us that he can't tell us anything yet =) Third one is interesting though. "this threshold on scadrial much easier to obtain" could mean quite a number of things. The most logical (and interesting) thing I can think of is that he has modified the people themselves such that their spiritual dna is more floppy. Um, no wrong word, more volatile, easier to change. Which, I think could have other more serious implications in the longterm. For a start making haemalurgy easier, and perhaps easier to perform non-fatal haemalurgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 I figure the physically draining rituals aren't necessarily a beating. I'm guessing it includes a lot of sleep deprivation combined with extreme temperatures (like staying next to a bonfire), some rioters and a bit of ritual cuts with those triangular shuriken thingies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claincy Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 True, I expect that a drawn out ordeal like that would have a fair mental effect as well which, by including both mental and physical stress could make it less likely to cause accidental death and more likely to snap someone who's allomantic potential was quite low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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