11 replies to this topic

[firstRainbowRose]

So, it seems we have FINALLY gotten an answer on the question of how Sazed can send and receive in Alloy of Law.

How this all works dates back to the original design of the Magic system.I wanted Ruin and Preservation to be complimentary opposites, like many things in the Mistborn world. Allomancy, for example, has Pushes and Pulls were are less "negate one another" opposites, but instead two sides to the same proverbial coin.

Ruin is invasive. The power is more "Yell" than "Listen." The philosopher would probably have some interesting things to say about the masculine symbolism of Hemalurgy and its spikes.

Ruin can insert thoughts. That power, however, can't HEAR the reactions. It's about invasion.

Preservation, however, is the opposite. Preservation listens, Preservation protects. (Perhaps to a fault--if there were no Ruin, there would be no change to the world, and life could not exist.) Because of this, Preservation can hear what is inside people's minds. It cannot, however, INSERT thoughts. (This is important to the plot of Hero of Ages.)

Harmony is both, the two complimentary opposites combined. And so, he inserts thoughts with Ruin and still uses Hemalurgy. He can also listen.

You can see it all here: http://www.reddit.co...d_alloy_of_law/




(Also, can we get all of the random questions that have been answered through reddit on the database? Please?)

[zas678]

I've been playing close attention to it, and I've been working on compiling the stuff for the Database.

Though this actual explanation... I don't know! I mean Kelsier appears to Spook (insertion) when he's holding part of Preservation, and then Vin "pushes" Elend to the Pits. Maybe it's a Faith thing rather than a Preservation thing? I don't know.

[firstRainbowRose]

Well, from here we can pin him down on the specifics and find out how those details worked out. (You know that he'll figure something out as an answer...)

Also, thank you for being amazing Zack. You are for sure the man in the suit.

[Windrunner]

I'd chalk the pushing Elend around up as him being Vin's champion at the time. Perhaps the rules alter when they are dealing with one human in particular. I think faith is probably the best answer there, its another thing the the two have in common as you've so rightly pointed out. Also Demoux preaches of the Pre-Ascension world when he never heard Kel speak of it. He was probably also being spoken to, and he definitely has faith. That's probably one of the most mysterious bits. Thanks for the answer firstRainbowRose!

[CrazyRioter]

I'm guessing this is a limit to do with intent again, so Vin and Kelsier could speak to people because they had not been molded to the intent of the Shard and so could do whatever they needed to do with the power

[spinner]

I think the quote just works with "Thoughts"

Ruin can insert thoughts...Preservation can hear them...each instance where the person holding Preservation's power there had to be something that played on the senses...Letas waved Elend in a direction, Vin spoke (and note that it was heard, not in his mind) etc etc... Dunno about the Kelsier bit, but he always brakes the rules.

[Windrunner]

I'm guessing this is a limit to do with intent again, so Vin and Kelsier could speak to people because they had not been molded to the intent of the Shard and so could do whatever they needed to do with the power

That's a good point, but I think I'll stick with the faith argument. After all, Leras and Ati fought for millenia and so were presumably fully entrenched in their intent long before they created humans. And yet Preservation could speak to someone, possibly someone with faith in him, to give them the Terris Prophecies.

[Kurkistan]

And I deserve a cookie, I guess. - http://www.17thshard...-aofl-spoilers/

I think the quote just works with "Thoughts"

Ruin can insert thoughts...Preservation can hear them...each instance where the person holding Preservation's power there had to be something that played on the senses...Letas waved Elend in a direction, Vin spoke (and note that it was heard, not in his mind) etc etc... Dunno about the Kelsier bit, but he always brakes the rules.

That might be the case, but it occurs to me that both Vin and Kelsier, besides being free from Preservation's intent, also have a measureable amount of Ruin's power in them, as they are human, so they might be able to do a smidgen of "writing."

[Morsk]

I remember an annotation saying Spook was one of the only people Kelsier could talk to, because Spook had real faith in him. So I think the Ruin-based and the faith-based communication are two different systems.

Anyone else remember this? I'd rather not dig through all the annotations trying to find it if someone does, heh.

[Observer]

And I deserve a cookie, I guess. - http://www.17thshard...-aofl-spoilers/



That might be the case, but it occurs to me that both Vin and Kelsier, besides being free from Preservation's intent, also have a measureable amount of Ruin's power in them, as they are human, so they might be able to do a smidgen of "writing."

Woah. I never noticed that. I always point at Vin to contradict the "Preservation can only read" theory, but we ignore the piece of Ruin inside everyone. +1, I love it.

Edited by Observer, 24 August 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[zas678]

I think that it is more the fact that Elend had faith in Vin, and so, like Kelsier and Spook, Vin could reach out and talk with him. Or at least that's what makes the most sense to me.

EDIT- Just like Morsk said above. It might be in the annotations? I don't know. I don't think Brandon ever explicitly states that there are two form of mentalness going on.

[Observer]

Spook was the only one in the crew he could speak to. That�s because Spook truly has faith in Kelsier as a deity—which, for these few weeks between Preservation�s death and the coming of the Hero of Ages, Kelsier is.

I believe this is the quote you're talking about.

Edited by Observer, 25 August 2012 - 09:11 AM.