56 replies to this topic

[Kurkistan]

I made a font for the Alloy of Law versions...

Oh really?

[Kurkistan]

Update:

Looking at the comparison, it looks like valkynphyre was right and we have almost a 1-1 correspondence between the alphabets. New Brandon signing question (or Peter, if he's feeling generous): "Were the Scadralian and Alethi alphabets designed by the same (in world) person?"

"Scadralian" adds 'w' and commas/periods, so hurrah there. Currently representing 'w' with just a 'u' in the Roman-Alethi converter, so easy as cake to switch those out.

As noted, the page lacks 'x', 'z', 'q', and 'j'. It also appears that Scadralian lacks a unique character for 'th', going with just a 't'+'h'. Generally an easy conversion if I have reason to do it, though the lack of a 'j' bothers me.

On a side note, how did you manage to get a high enough resolution to see all of the symbols clearly, valkynphyre? I zoomed in on my PDF and could barely make out the symbols even when I knew which ones to look for where.

Edited by Kurkistan, 03 May 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[valkynphyre]

On a side note, how did you manage to get a high enough resolution to see all of the symbols clearly, valkynphyre? I zoomed in on my PDF and could barely make out the symbols even when I knew which ones to look for where.

Well, it wasn't really high resolution at all. It was terribly pixellated and grainy. I just worked with what I had. Luckily, most symbols were distinct from the others around them, though several gave me PROBLEMS. especially in the first couple of lines, there's a brass symbol followed by lerasium, and they mash together... I thought it was two new symbols for a while. The symbols for steel were completely indistinct, where they represent the word Steel. I just looked at all the symbols, how the crescent was shaped, and where the dot was until I got it right.

Chromium was also terribly difficult to distinguish.

Mostly i zoomed in to about 200%, then zoomed in or zoomed out until i got a decent enough picture to recognize. About halfway through, though, I didn't have to zoom it all and reading it became much easier with familiarity. The last couple of lines were almost like reading in english... okay, more like reading in french, which I don't know very well.

speaking of just having the PDF, does anyone have a physical copy of it yet? They never mentioned how long I would have to wait to receive it. 6-8 weeks?

[Kurkistan]

Well, it wasn't really high resolution at all. It was terribly pixellated and grainy. I just worked with what I had. Luckily, most symbols were distinct from the others around them, though several gave me PROBLEMS. especially in the first couple of lines, there's a brass symbol followed by lerasium, and they mash together... I thought it was two new symbols for a while. The symbols for steel were completely indistinct, where they represent the word Steel. I just looked at all the symbols, how the crescent was shaped, and where the dot was until I got it right.

Chromium was also terribly difficult to distinguish.

Mostly i zoomed in to about 200%, then zoomed in or zoomed out until i got a decent enough picture to recognize. About halfway through, though, I didn't have to zoom it all and reading it became much easier with familiarity. The last couple of lines were almost like reading in english... okay, more like reading in french, which I don't know very well.

speaking of just having the PDF, does anyone have a physical copy of it yet? They never mentioned how long I would have to wait to receive it. 6-8 weeks?

Well I'll be chromium-leeched. That's downright heroic. How long did the whole process take/why did you decide to embark upon it?

P.S. Also, I didn't order the physical book (yes, I am cheap), so I don't know.

Edited by Kurkistan, 03 May 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[valkynphyre]

Well, it all started about 2 years ago, when someone cracked the Alethi language. I didn't think it could be done. I was wrong. So, this time, I decided to do it myself. If I hadn't known how to translate Alethi already, it would have taken a lot longer. I was looking for the CHs, the Shs, and the Ths, and once I started identifying vowels, i remembered they were grouped in Alethi and that saved me time, too.

I think it took about 2 and a half hours, total. My little brother helped a bit, too.

I wrote down every new character, made a few guesses as to which letters they represented, but mostly it turned into one of those transcription puzzles that always lead to corny jokes.

I hate corny transcription puzzle jokes.

But, I digress. I noticed no one had translated this yet, and I just had to do it for myself. It was quite enjoyable.


Edit: on a different note entirely, I NEED a profile pic of my name in a stylized steel alphabet font. Guess I'll have to do that.
Hey, Indispensable Peter Ahlstrom, any chance that AoL font could somehow make its way in my direction? Pretty pony please?

Edited by valkynphyre, 03 May 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Kurkistan]

Nice. Also, fun fact: the Elendel Daily broadsheet has tin symbols flanking its name in the header, 'e' for Elendel.

[PeterAhlstrom]

Well, here is your name, more or less.  Valkenfir.png   6.32K   55 downloads

Also, I'm not totally sure what to do about the "th" sound. We didn't build it into the alphabet because it's not used in major characters' names. But it does appear in Hathsin. It's possible that it's used like in French and German (like in Thenardier and Neanderthal) and is just pronounced "t."

Edited by PeterAhlstrom, 04 May 2012 - 10:04 AM.

[Joe ST]

Well, here is your name, more or less.  Valkenfir.png   6.32K   55 downloads

Also, I'm not totally sure what to do about the "th" sound. We didn't build it into the alphabet because it's not used in major characters' names. But it does appear in Hathsin. It's possible that it's used like in French and German (like in Thenardier and Neanderthal) and is just pronounced "t."

did they just swap out symbols (so V is still atium?), or did they expand it to use the feruchemical representations also, or are they just a completely different order?

[Kurkistan]

Well, here is your name, more or less.  Valkenfir.png   6.32K   55 downloads

Also, I'm not totally sure what to do about the "th" sound. We didn't build it into the alphabet because it's not used in major characters' names. But it does appear in Hathsin. It's possible that it's used like in French and German (like in Thenardier and Neanderthal) and is just pronounced "t."

Looking more closely at the font, it looks like we're missing some information. Note that the tin symbol for 'e' and 'i' are slightly different: the dot is in a different location. I suppose that the dots are diacritical marks, then.

Any other diacritical information we should know about the Steel Alphabet (or Alethi, for that matter), Peter?

Edited by Kurkistan, 04 May 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[valkynphyre]

Thanks Peter!

[Inkthinker]

For those of you who have the Mistborn adventure game, around page 262, there is a full-page drawing of a steel inquisitor with symbols, obviously a written language, describing the drawing. Much like the drawings in the Way of Kings, the symbols do not directly correlate to our alphabet, but after some work I was able to translate them.

I present this unto thee, fellow sharders.

Hemalurgy, holiest of holy powers. By The LORD RULER, who shall live forever, God over men. Let not the knowledge of these sacred pages pass beyond the ministers, who dwell within his house, by his Holy Grace Unending.


Hemalurgy is by greater by far than the lesser powers of allomancy or the barbarian powers of feruchemy, for it is the sum of both and more. Once granted unto the blessed of STEEL, they shall be forever changed.

Iron: Grant strength taken from humans.
Steel: Grant a physical power of Allomancy.
Tin: Enhance the human senses.
Pewter: Grant a physical power of Feruchemy.
Zinc: Enhance emotional fortitude.
Brass: Grant a mental power of Feruchemy
Copper: Enhance memory and intelligence.
Bronze: Grant a mental power of Allomancy.
Atium: Grant a power of temporal Allomancy.
Aluminum: Enhance a power of Allomancy.


Though you strike out their eyes,
they shall see the hearts of men.

For those who would truly serve His Grace, there shall ever be three of Steel to mark them.
Two shall bend their sight, and one shall bend their soul. Let the sacred spike of blessed metal pierce the heart of the sacrifice, to consume the soul and power. Thus prepared, the spike is thrust into the body and blood of the chosen by the Lord Ruler to receive his benediction.




Hope you guys enjoy!

Almost perfect, well done!!

But "bend" should be "bind". Easy mistake, the I/E share a symbol. Also I thought it was "those chosen" rather than "the chosen", but I might have messed up (though we triple-blind-checked it). If I really did write "is by greater by far", it'd be nice if the wiki translation fudged a grammar correction there (it should just be "is greater by far", of course).

It's not surprising that the text is hard to read at that resolution, especially when you add in that I had a whole internalized set of rules for allowing the symbols to touch in order to aid in the "script" effect. Letters do blend together a little, intentionally.

I think that image might be my favorite out of the whole set... I was wondering how long it would be until someone got around to translating it.

Edited by Inkthinker, 05 May 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Kurkistan]

Almost perfect, well done!!

But "bend" should be "bind". Easy mistake, the I/E share a symbol. Also I thought it was "those chosen" rather than "the chosen", but I might have messed up (though we triple-blind-checked it). If I really did write "is by greater by far", it'd be nice if the wiki translation fudged a grammar correction there (it should just be "is greater by far", of course).

It's not surprising that the text is hard to read at that resolution, especially when you add in that I had a whole internalized set of rules for allowing the symbols to touch in order to aid in the "script" effect. Letters do blend together a little, intentionally.

I think that image might be my favorite out of the whole set... I was wondering how long it would be until someone got around to translating it.

Thanks for the clarification. Would you like to tell us what diacriticals differentiate O/U, since we already know the I/E differentiation? Any others we should know about?

Edited by Kurkistan, 05 May 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[valkynphyre]

Almost perfect, well done!!

But "bend" should be "bind". Easy mistake, the I/E share a symbol. Also I thought it was "those chosen" rather than "the chosen", but I might have messed up (though we triple-blind-checked it). If I really did write "is by greater by far", it'd be nice if the wiki translation fudged a grammar correction there (it should just be "is greater by far", of course).

It's not surprising that the text is hard to read at that resolution, especially when you add in that I had a whole internalized set of rules for allowing the symbols to touch in order to aid in the "script" effect. Letters do blend together a little, intentionally.

I think that image might be my favorite out of the whole set... I was wondering how long it would be until someone got around to translating it.

cool, I'll edit my original post, to make sure those who come for the correct translation get it.

I certainly enjoyed translating it. Great work, Inkthinker.

I did double check, and it does say 'the chosen.' Jsyk.

Edited by valkynphyre, 05 May 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[Inkthinker]

Thanks for the clarification. Would you like to tell us what diacriticals differentiate O/U, since we already know the I/E differentiation? Any others we should know about?

Near as I can recall, it's contextual. And if there's an "OU" point (like "though") then I believe the rule was to use one symbol. Same for situations with double-letters.

Browsing the valkynphyre translation, nothing else stood out. As I said, almost perfect. I did double-check the second paragraph, and I did get it right ("is greater by far"). Don't scare me like that! I got a nervous disposition.

In the end it was just meant to be a fun game for someone to play. I tried hard to get a "secret" in there, but there wasn't anything I could include that Brandon was ready to let out into the wild. So I ended up just writing a lot of pseudo-religious-sounding text that seemed suitable to the Ministry. I reckon if anything in there was determined to be "wrong", we could chalk it up to the Ministry being mistaken.

Not me, of course. I never make mistakes.

Edited by Inkthinker, 06 May 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[Inkthinker]

Nice. Also, fun fact: the Elendel Daily broadsheet has tin symbols flanking its name in the header, 'e' for Elendel.

...Actually, it was because Tin is for enhanced senses, so it made sense as the symbol for those who see clearly and hear more than the average citizen.

But I can roll with "E" for "Elendel" too, sure, why not? Totally intentional, meant it the whole time.

[Kurkistan]

Near as I can recall, it's contextual. And if there's an "OU" point (like "though") then I believe the rule was to use one symbol. Same for situations with double-letters.

Browsing the valkynphyre translation, nothing else stood out. As I said, almost perfect. I did double-check the second paragraph, and I did get it right ("is greater by far"). Don't scare me like that! I got a nervous disposition.

In the end it was just meant to be a fun game for someone to play. I tried hard to get a "secret" in there, but there wasn't anything I could include that Brandon was ready to let out into the wild. So I ended up just writing a lot of pseudo-religious-sounding text that seemed suitable to the Ministry. I reckon if anything in there was determined to be "wrong", we could chalk it up to the Ministry being mistaken.

Not me, of course. I never make mistakes.

Thank you for the inside knowledge. Just to double check, there is supposed to be a difference between the I and E symbols every time, right?

...Actually, it was because Tin is for enhanced senses, so it made sense as the symbol for those who see clearly and hear more than the average citizen.

But I can roll with "E" for "Elendel" too, sure, why not? Totally intentional, meant it the whole time.

Of course, of course. Entirely intentional.

EDIT: Oh no... The dot is in the 'i' location on the broadsheet, not the 'e' location. Oh how the world shall weep at missing such a fortuitous coincidence!

Edited by Kurkistan, 07 May 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[PeterAhlstrom]

The ALLOY OF LAW symbols are not a different alphabet from the one used in MISTBORN 1. It is just a more modern font. (In-world, there would be a variety of fonts, as there are in our world.] The traditional font is still legible to the majority of the population, and is still used when they want an old-fashioned look.

Looking more closely at the font, it looks like we're missing some information. Note that the tin symbol for 'e' and 'i' are slightly different: the dot is in a different location. I suppose that the dots are diacritical marks, then.

Any other diacritical information we should know about the Steel Alphabet (or Alethi, for that matter), Peter?

Moving the dot to distinguish vowels is a modern innovation, within the last 100 years by ALLOY OF LAW. I suspect that dots may be gone entirely (except for the two changed vowels, and maybe "capital" letters) in many fonts by the time you get to the second trilogy. Numbers might get a moved dot too. The placement of the dots in the original symbology has to do with Allomancy, but they're largely superfluous in writing.

The Feruchemical symbols (which are in the RPG) are evolved from the same root (the ancient symbols you can see in MISTBORN 3), but I don't know about their use in modern writing. It could be something like the hiragana/katakana distinction. But that's just speculation right now.

Edited by PeterAhlstrom, 07 May 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Kurkistan]

Moving the dot to distinguish vowels is a modern innovation, within the last 100 years by ALLOY OF LAW. I suspect that dots may be gone entirely (except for the two changed vowels, and maybe "capital" letters) in many fonts by the time you get to the second trilogy. Numbers might get a moved dot too. The placement of the dots in the original symbology has to do with Allomancy, but they're largely superfluous in writing.

Ah, so the dots signal Pulling (dots outside the crescent) versus Pushing (dots inside) metals. Clever, I must say.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's nice to know that you've put so much thought into all of this.

EDIT: And that means that we can still claim that the Elendel Daily is using the Tin symbol for both "sharpness of sight" and for the letter 'e', given that it's likely deliberately archaic. Or "capitalized," perhaps.

EDIT 2: Also, it could be Base/Alloy for dot outside/inside, since they are the same sets.

Edited by Kurkistan, 07 May 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[PeterAhlstrom]

I'm imagining that the E/I and O/U pairs would be alphabetized intermixed in Scadrial dictionaries and phone books. They are still seen as basically the same letter.

[Kurkistan]

Curse those Scadralians and their lack of a partially redundant alphabet!