the winter system

Oh, finally getting around to archiving this old beast? Figured it'd happen eventually. It's been up for almost a decade now. Press f to pay respects, ey!

That's his responsibility as a writer?

I'm not so sure about the dark triad stuff too? Like, people with narcissistic personality disorder, an actual condition, are fine too, those are also just other people with different struggles. Like, yeah, someone with narcissism can be a jerk in ways that are encouraged by that neurodivergency and they might need to work extra hard to avoid certain harmful patterns of behavior, but they're not any less capable of good. I think trying to blame bad behaviors on inherent traits is kinda flawed by it's nature. Like, everyone makes choices and it seems to undermine the harm those actions cause by blaming it on something like that-- like, it takes away from accountability. But we know less about that than plural stuff, so, shrug. - Nix

Okay, maybe I will go into this a bit. Unrecognized plurality and recognized plurality manifest very differently. The symptoms are still there, but they're often recognized as shifts in mood, at least when it comes to OSDD-1b. Various headmates are still there, they just might not communicate with each other or recognize that they're separate from each other. She's not DID, she doesn't have the current gaps in memory. I think you might be underestimating how it's shown in WOR and WOK. Veil is an introject (a headmate based on an external source) that is based on "being a spy" but she wasn't nonexistent before, she just gained that identity and became more specific. Re: People being okay with it. They're likely understanding it as a Lightweaver thing, rather than a mental health thing. In addition, having her have an entire thing about being institutionalized even when people like Kaladin aren't would be really bad, representation wise. It would be a really bad experience to read and would feel -- would be -- being singled out. Those people are specifically people who can't function in society. They can. And it's actually really nice to see. I don't care about realism, I care about seeing people like me in healthy relationships and not being judged unfairly. Radiant killing someone is somewhat extreme, but it's not something that they all wouldn't have been willing to do. This is a setting with death and violence. Killing isn't something that's specific to her. - Nix

That is me IRL and yes, I would mind. Google is free.

Hello. Actually plural person here. No.

Subsystems are a thing, though I meant more along the lines of "identity blurry and the line between a headmate in a strongly different mood and an entirely different headmate isn't very solid."

As an actually plural person, it's completely possible that the statements "Formless was actually the Shallan headmate but hurt" and "Formless was a different headmate" can coexist. - Nix.

That's his responsibility, especially when it comes to writing such an underrepresented minority. It was well done, considering, but it's still disapointing that he was only talking to one part of the community. Especially considering how... discoursive the plural community is. There is a LOT that you'll miss if you only take one system's. Like, although obviously everyone in the system is going to have their own opinions on stuff, the variation in opinion tends to be within a range.

I mean, we know at least a dozen different systems, five pretty closely. A bunch more than that casually. It's his job as a writer to go looking for people. Also, plurality is more than DID. See: OSDD-1a and 1b, and plenty of people who don't fit into medicalized categories.

Characters are written by people who make decisions. When it comes to sensitive topics that are unrepresented, writers need to be careful in how they portray them. The Three aren't real people, and they do not make their own choices. - Nix

Hunter’s day’s been a bit of a weird one. Not that any day is a simple one. Except maybe travelling days, those are fine. Except when they’re not. Leaf notes. What happened outside Saint Albert-- “Stays outside Saint Albert,” Hunter finishes out loud. She turns the corner, all the different leashes in one hand. She has to tug some of them, not naming any particular names, a bit more than the others. Okay, maybe a bit of naming names. It’s Jet. “You’re never going to let us live that down, are you.” Nope. There’s… rainbows everywhere. And what looks like two Epics just turning away from what could’ve been a conflict but wasn’t. Common enough experience that they recognize it just from the way the Epics are standing. Fightn’t, A.E.G.I.S. interjects. No, Leaf retorts internally, at the same time Hunter says, “No.” Fightn’t. Noun. Definition. A situation where Epics don’t fight even though they could. “No,” Hunter repeats. “Not doing this again. Focusing. Turn back or keep going?” Turn back, Leaf insists, and A.E.G.I.S. doesn’t have a response. She’s about to do that when she gets a bad feeling. Like she’s already been noticed. Ally is about to ditch this man when she notices a person with seven dogs, all different sizes. She thinks, Another Epic? No probably a normal person just walking their dogs. She starts to wonder whether she should ask the person to pet their dogs when they realize that the normal person would just comply to every demand. Humans are so the not-stand-up type. She decides to go with the first option. She walks up to the dog person and says, “Hi, can I pet your dogs?” Zyth follows Rainbow Sparkles Epic over to the dog person that she’s suddenly taken interest in. “Everyone wants to pet the dogs today,” Hunter grumbles. Don’t be too testy, Leaf warns. You? Thinking someone is too testy? She just thinks it, though. Ally listens as the person grumbles about how everyone wants to pet a dog. She decides to go to an alternative. “Do the dogs have names?” Zyth looks from Sparkly Rainbow Epic to the dog person. “It would be polite to ask their name and how they’re doing,” Zyth says, the comment directed at Rainbow Sparkly Weird Epic. He sighs, then turns to address the dog person. “Hello, what are you called?” “Yeah, dogs have names. We’ve got one too,” she pulls back to keep them from bounding too energetically towards the strange Epics. Not like any Epic isn’t a bit weird. Still, the rainbow gimmick’s fun. Better than painting with blood. Or, maybe, she figures, the rainbows are secretly blood? That sounds about right. “Hunter’s usually fine. If I start complaining about that and saying it’s Pocket instead, whack me on the head real good.” Don’t just leave it at that, Leaf complains. “For not-getting-a-concussion reasons, that’s a joke.” Cute dogs, Ally thinks. “What do you mean by we?” she asks Hunter. “You know,” she says dismissively, turning a bit to keep the pack from jumping at the rainbow one. Most of them are better trained than this, jeez. “Down, down. Do you need money? Or barter to pass through this place? We’re new in town.” Ally sighs. So much for getting a lead on the weird pronoun usage. “No, I don’t need money, I need graffiti. And rainbows,” she says. “And I don’t barter, cause i’m t-h-i-r-t-e-e-n. And to answer your q-u-e-s-t-i-o-n, no fees are r-e-q-u-i-r-e-d. Why would I need one?” Zyth eyes Rainbow Sparkly Epic. “There’s no way you’re thirteen.” Don’t say anything, we’re already involved too much, Leaf remarks. We should probably leave. We don’t want to get wrapped up in this. “Paranoid, much?” she says, answering both things. “How am I paranoid?” Zyth asks, confused and slightly annoyed. “That makes zero sense. Like zero.” He shakes his head. “We do need to get around to full introductions.” He turns to Sparkles-Galore Epic. “What’s your name?” Ally feels annoyed. Does this Epic even have eyes? “Yes I’m t-h-i-r-t-e-e-n.” Ally says to the mysterious and very paranoid Epic. “And my name would be Ally. Like Alley.” “Nice to meet you, Ally,” Zyth replies. “You’re quite young for an Epic.” The Epic comments on her age, giving her an odd look. How rude, she thinks. “Yes I’m very young, but there are younger epics out there.” It was true. There were like 5 year old epics out there. Most epics aged slowly after they received their power. “What ‘s your powers?” Uh oh… Zyth thinks. Didn’t plan that. Zyth pauses for a moment, then comes up with a brilliant counter. “What are your powers?” “My powers are rainbow fields and spears and rainbows.” She turns to look at the dog person. “Can I please pet your dogs?” “Yes, just be careful,” Hunter replies, thinking and we proceed to get even more wrapped up in things. Yes, Ally thinks. She pets a dog. It’s a mutt, of a breed that Ally can’t recognize. It looks up at her, seemingly asking for more, as she turns to the Epic that likes to avoid everything. “And what is your name?” While Sparkly Epic who is actually called Ally - but Zyth prefers to think of her as Rainbow Sparkly Epic - pets the dogs, Zyth looks at Hunter, ignoring Sparkly Rainbows-and-Glitter’s question. “And what are your powers?” She shrugs. “Take care of the dogs and stay alive.” It’s a noncommittal answer, one Leaf’s fond of. “Hey, what’s your name?” Ally asks the mysterious epic. "That doesn't matter," Zyth replies to Sparkles-and-Rainbow Glitter Epic. “Still picking one? There’s no pressure.” “Ouch,” Ally says, “you’re the type that just uses their normal name?” "You use your normal name, Sparkles." “No such thing as a normal name.” “Fine, you can call me Zyth.” He glares at both of them, before turning back to Hunter. “And yes that’s my ‘normal' name. “Where were we?” “Leaving, for us.” Leaf says, stepping in. Hunter grumbles just a bit, internally. Interesting conversation is so rare. What am I, chopped liver? “Why?” “Some business.” “I thought you were new in town.” “We are. That doesn’t rule out having work,” Hunter says, “We like to travel.” “Travel where? It’s not like you have many options,” Zyth replies. “Edmonton is one of the safer places.” “You could say that.” "I just said that, so yes I could." She curtly nods like she’s made a point. Zyth sighs. "Are you a High Epic? 'Cause if you're not, we'd be safer together." “We travel with the only company we need,” she says, tilting her head towards her dogs. “If you want to come with us, then you better be prepared to help.” “Help me,” Ally said “help you? Sure! Rainbows and graffiti, here we come!” “With food and walks and clean water and medical care. Practical things.” Don’t push it, Leaf says. We do need help. “Graffiti and rainbows are practical,” Ally tells Hunter. “Those aren’t practical,” Zyth responds, “but I suppose having a more showy Epic to protect us might help.” He looks at Hunter. “What do you think?” “I think I’m wondering if you have a place to stay the night.” “I’m sure we can get one,” Zyth says, looking at Ally. “Any place is a place to stay if you kill the owners.” Ally says darkly. Zyth coughs. “I’m sorry, WHAT?!”

Yeah, fair enough! And that's understandable. The world kind of sucks sometimes, it's nice to imagine a world where you don't have to deal with that yourself. - Nix

Just popping in to say that plural people -- umbrella term for people with "multiple personalities," though that's a very outdated -- exist IRL and can read what you write about us. Not every system wants to integrate, and plenty of us live full, complete lives, unintengrated.

"Not as much don't wanna or won't," Kokichi says, laughing just a bit nervously. "More... can't?" They give a cute little look.

Just because you think other people are going to be rude doesn't mean you have to say it. Re: It being nice. Not everyone would agree with you on that. Most systems are formed as a result of repeated trauma at a young age. (There's also usually the clause "severe" added to that, but honestly, I think that any amount of trauma is severe.) There's... disagreement about whether or not it's possible to be plural without having trauma, and by debate, I mean... Uh. Let's shove that under the bed and never look at it again. As far as we know, there's no science on it either way, so I'm going to state my Official Stance as a shrug. I think it's more likely that parogenic (also referred to as tulpamancy, but that's considered an outdated and offensive term by many because it can be cultural appropriation) have something to go off than "completely natural" systems and those who think they're natural are a mix of so-called milder trauma and parogenic. DID tends to involve severe memory loss from headmate to headmate. From what I've heard, that makes life significantly harder. It's a lot more than not being alone. (OSDD-1a, also referred to as median, has less differences between the headmates, for example, a system composed entirely of younger and older versions of the same personality. OSDD-1b involves no or less memory loss, though there tends to be emotional amnesia-- not being able to remember how you felt.) Most of the time, in our experience, the disagreements between headmates tend to be around the level of contentious roomates. However, things can definitely spiral, just like in any relationship, and getting into a fight with a headmate is a lot worse than getting into a fight with a friend. Malicious headmates can sabotage others' relationships on purpose or hurt the body. So-called persecutors are nothing like the monsters in bad horror movies like split -- they're MUCH more likely to be detrimental to the system than anyone around them and their actions are usually coming from a place of deep hurt-- but that doesn't mean they can't be difficult to live with. Lisa's veered into that territory every now and then. There are benefits, the feeling of companionship is amazing, but just like any neurodivergence, there are advantages and disadvantages. Also, if anyone's here from that tumblr post, hi! - Nix

She's not DID. She's closest to OSDD 1b. I did a thread about our reactions to it, as a system who's probably got that. Also, please remember that people like us are always in the room and what you say about our, frankly speaking, absolutely minuscule representation matters.

"Lisa is best described as a short ranged clairvoyant, or better yet as a pericog having the ability to extrapolate an incredible wealth of inference from the smallest trace of data. She needs to have some information about the target to begin with, and her enhanced intuition fills in the gaps in her knowledge, allowing her to crack computer passwords, profile and cold read people around her, and make predictions about the most likely outcome of a given situation, among other things. She's very accurate, although not infallible. She has to consciously direct her power for what she focuses on, refocusing and starting again if she gets useless information." Copy and pasted from the wiki, since it's hard to explain, and I'm not really feeling up to 20 questions tonight. - Lisa

https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/dissociativeliving/2018/02/fictional-introjects-in-dissociative-identity-disorder - Lisa

I definitely don't think that should be the only sort of representation, but also, god, I wish that was us. - Nix I'd definitely not turn it down, I ~do~ miss being blonde, but I'd rather just have my own superpower back. I'm used to it, after all. - Lisa

Wha, huh? Can I pass?

Oh, now she's all chill. Now she's curious. Kokichi's got intel, Kokichi's special, Kokichi's tots important! Which is great, they're pretty sure. They like being important and people paying attention to them, is like, well-- it's people paying attention to them! It justifies itself! "That meeting, was it the one called by Epoch?" They nod, bouncing up and down. Eyes on them! "Yup, yup, yup! That's the one!" they say, winking. "Could you tell me a bit more about it?" Pause, everything frozen as it is. Their wide smile, their movements, they all lock up. Ah. Yeah. About that. "No!" Their tone somehow manages to convey the precise feeling of a heart emoji.

Yeah!! Good to meet you guys! We're really hoping to meet more plural characters in Brandon Sanderson's work in the future, and the fact that ROW isn't the last book with Shallan's POV means that we could meet more headmates in the future, coming and going a bit, but still! It makes me wonder who Brandon Sanderson's sensitivity readers were on this, if he was including systems from across the spectrum of "wants to/doesn't want to integrate" or if he just knew about the ones who did. I was also a little uncertain about Formless. i was kind of hoping for a resolution along the lines of, yes, this headmate has a lot of problems and holds a lot of trauma and might even sabotage the rest of them somewhat, but is still worthy of love. Maybe even something that pointed out, yeah, headmates like that are. most dangerous to the body and the system as a whole, rather than anyone else around them.

Hello! Nix here, host of the winter system or the light system, depending on when you ask, we're not very decisive on names, and we just finished reading Rhythm of War-- (Probably OSDD-1b). We were wondering if there were any other systems who have opinions on Shallan as representation. We've been into this series for a long time and only recently came to awareness of our own plurality, about three and a half months counting, so this is really the first work of fiction depicting our situation-- we read her as an OSDD-1b system too, just because of 1. how defined the headmates are and 2. the lack of amnesia. We were really excited going through the first parts, we'd seen ourselves in her system's interactions, internal and external, but then Veil integrated to return the memories. I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, plenty of systems do want to integrate. On the other hand, it's not the only way to exist with plurality, and we don't want to integrate. We really liked seeing what seemed to be a healthy dynamic, and the way that they functioned in a romantic relationship was really reassuring. I'm conflicted. Juno is just excited to have seen Lift, was looking forward to Formless being accepted into their system as their own headmate, and was "tots bummed out" that didn't happen. Lisa's not super invested, no pun intended, in the whole series, a little suspicious of Brandon Sanderson as a whole, though she also liked seeing a dynamic that reminded her of us represented. B. thinks the books didn't have enough dogs. What do you guys think? I don't actually know how many other plural fans there are on here, it might just be us. I hope not, though! And singlets, what impressions has Shallan's system given you about plurality? Have their situations changed your perspective on systems like us?

"Hey, can I shoot you to see how that prime invincibility of yours works?" Kokichi gives her a thumbs up, completely sincerely. "You know, if you were my student I'd tell you to transfer to an English major. It seems like you need the additional classes." Darkness fills their face, the shading turning from soft to dramatic in an instant as they bite off the tip. It fades as quickly as it comes. "How long has it been since you had anything to eat anyway?" "Don't know too much, lol. I just sorta viiiibe, go with the flow? Works better with the good ol' powers anyway!" They finish up the snacks with a flourish. "When was the meeting? With all the dif Epics? Cuz that's what I was doing last, and I probs had some twizzlers or some nonsense like that on me then. Then things were like, boom, bam, bleh and bleh and bam again, and then boooooom. So now I'm here."