World Hopping and Sel

[Kadrok]

So I posted my version of this theory, thinking incorrectly that it was original; I hadn't been here for a while, and obviously didn't search well enough (which is embarrassing since this topic is in fact on the first page).

 

But in mine I suggest shardpools present a rift between the physical realm and the cognitive which can be used for worldhopping, but not all rifts are necessarily shardpools. The horneater pool might not be a shardpool, but it might be a "rift", and this would be consistent with the weird congnitive mumbo jumbo going on with the horneaters. Additionally my solution to Hoid not finding the Well of Ascension for ages is that he didn't know where it was in the cognitive realm (but he presumably did know about the access point at the pits of Hathsin or some other access we don't know about).

 

I further point out that this (and a WoB) might imply that someone without "magic" could worldhop, provided they know how the pools work... which is an appealing notion.

 

Here's the full text (in a spoiler box so this post isn't huge) so we don't have people posting in a redundant topic:

 

Preface: So I had this thought a while back, but I've been lazy about coming here recently. If someone else has thought of this and posted about it... please forgive me... I gave a cursory glance of what's been happening, but as I mentioned, I've been lax in my presence here as of late, and am probably not up to date.

 

 

Let's just get right into it shall we... I'm proposing that Hoid worldhops through pools of some kind, possibly shardpools. Let's have some quotes!

 

Quote

So note first that how Hoid worldhops is not the be all and end all of worldhopping... there are other ways.

 

Interview: Nov 6th, 2012

Weller Book Works Signing - Josh & Mi'ch (Verbatim)

Question

Okay, I also want to know if there are other ways to Worldhop aside then what Hoid uses.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Tags

worldhopping, cosmere, hoid,

 

 

Concerning my argument, these quotes are most important...

 

 

RShara, on 29 Mar 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

Chicago (if anyone has the report/audio for Milwaukee, please let me know)

http://www.17thshard...e-2#entry116818


Q:  The prevailing theory on the 17th Shard is that Hoid worldhops using Shadesmar. I was wondering if you were willing to confirm or deny that?
A:  Hoid has indeed gotten between worlds before through Shadesmar.
Q:  And would you be willing to give us a hint as to how he does that?
A:  There are hints in the books. There is a hint in the very first cosmere book I released. [that would be Elantris] Which I thought was a huge hint, but so far I haven't seen anyone talking about it.  I thought for sure once people started figuring the cosmere, they would see the massive in-your-face hint I put in that book, but so far, as far as I know, no one has.  Now, the one [hint] about the map, that one I don't think is obvious. I know people have been trying to figure it out. It's going to be fun once you figure it out, but it's not something huge and obvious. The Elantris once was, like, enormously "HIIINT!"
 

 

(This is going to be really embarrassing if you guys have figured out what this is in my absence and I am wrong). People I've seen have jumped on the teleportation aspects of Elantris, but there is another more interesting feature of Elantris which seems to connect to Words of Radiance. In Elantris we see Elantrians placed in the magic dissolving pool, and disappear. The element of Words of Radiance I am talking about is of course the story Rock tells about how he met Hoid (he doesn't know it's Hoid, he thinks of it as a trickster god, but it seemed obvious to me it was Hoid, and if anyone takes issue with this I suppose I can revisit the passage and make the case). Hoid was emerging from a sacred pool only the Horneaters are allowed around; people with a connection/awareness of spren, and therefore with some sort of cognitive mumbo jumbo. So Hoid comes out of the sacred pool in Horneaterville... where was he coming from? We've thus seen people disappear into pools, and a known worldhopper emerge from one.

 

Even more suggestive, you'll note that one of the only known instances of Hoid's worldhopping in which we know exactly where he went was when he used worldhopping to access the Well of Ascension chamber and steal a bead of lerasium... he worldhopped directly to somewhere with a shardpool... perhaps through the shardpool in some way.

 

My theory, mechanically speaking, is that these sacred pools (which don't all have to be shardpools) somehow form a rift between the cognitive realm and the physical realm, allowing travel between them. In terms of Scadrial, and Hoid's long search for the Well of Ascension, it is possible Hoid only knew where the pool at the pits of Hathsin was, and needed a better idea of where Preservation's pool was before he could "exit" there, hence all his time wandering around Terris.

 

Finally, let's consider perhaps the most important quote:

 

 

Quote

 

Interview: Sep, 2012

Cosmere Q&A - 17th Shard (Verbatim)

mycoltbug

Is there a magic system that best allows people to world hop between worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it isn't needed. Some do help more with understanding how to traverse the Cognitive Realm.

Tags

cognitive realm, shadesmar, worldhopping, investiture,

 

 

 

You could take Brandon's "but it isn't needed" in two ways, but in the context of his second sentence, it seems to me to imply that no magic system is needed, or at least that any magic system could be used (although ones with Cognitive Realm powers serve better, unsurprisingly). If this is the case, one would simply need to know where these pools (or perhaps more accurately rifts) are, and how to access them. That said, Jasnah notes that it is dangerous to travel Shadesmar without Stormlight, and I can see at least one magic system being required in order to generate the investiture necessary to survive...

 

With regard to the OP, there certainly does seem to be a likely connection between the Elantrian kill-pool and the difficulties in traveling on Sel, and I am put in mind of the WoB in which he talks about something having to be behind the power of the shattered shards... what if Odium set something to control the scrap of power tied to the well, setting it to offer death in place of cognitive realm access? Traveling to Sel would require getting past that warden.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Kadrok

[Swimmingly]

Perhaps it only functions as a Shardpool during Ascension every 1024 years?

[ASLane]

Apologies if this has been suggested before, but I've been thinking along the following lines for a while:

 

Let's assume for a moment that the Shardpools are used for Worldhopping, or at least entrance to the Shadesmar to facilitate Worldhopping (I agree that it was Hoid who Rock ran in to coming away from the Purelake). Let's also assume that a large part of why it's so difficult to work with Shadesmar on Sel is because the Aona is shattered. Perhaps getting there isn't the problem, it's leaving that's the issue. I feel that the teleportation Aon (can't remember the name at the moment) is the key to getting off Sel (and how Hoid managed to leave); I would expect Hoid/Gal to be able to work out the distance needed to get to another Shardworld, and we know that Aons are at full power at the heart of Elantris and only become weak/negligible at the other end of the jump.

 

Continuing on from this long line of mindless conjecture, Cultivation/Honor are also shattered, which would leave the Shardpool(s) on Roshar in a similar state to Sel (arrival only). Since he's so far from Elantris, he couldn't teleport without epic jury-rigging, and we don't know the limits of Elsecalling as of yet, but I suspect the key is here.This could also be the reason that Wit/Hoid has spent so much freaking time on Roshar, given that Rock met him many years ago, as did Shallan.

 

Perhaps it's simply that hard for him to gain the power of an Elsecaller, or perhaps it's impossible given that he already has Lightweaving from Yolen and that interferes with him gaining anything other than those of a Truthcaller/Lightweaver?

 

I realise this became multiple theories at once, but once I started...

 

Anyway, first post over.

[Moogle]

Perhaps it's simply that hard for him to gain the power of an Elsecaller, or perhaps it's impossible given that he already has Lightweaving from Yolen and that interferes with him gaining anything other than those of a Truthcaller/Lightweaver?

 

First of all, excellent first post.

 

As to this point specifically, I sincerely doubt Hoid could ever become a Knight Radiant. He's willing to let Roshar burn to get what he wants (not terribly First Ideal-y), and you have to act in very specific ways to bond a spren anyways. I wouldn't find it surprising if he ended up with an Honorblade, but a spren seems very unlikely.

 

Continuing on from this long line of mindless conjecture, Cultivation/Honor are also shattered, which would leave the Shardpool(s) on Roshar in a similar state to Sel (arrival only).

 

As to this, we only know Honor is Shattered, and most of his power seems to be held safely via the Stormfather. Cultivation's Holder is still alive, which makes it unlikely she's Shattered (though very possible).

Edited May 7, 2014 by Moogle

[ASLane]

First of all, excellent first post.

As to this point specifically, I sincerely doubt Hoid could ever become a Knight Radiant. He's willing to let Roshar burn to get what he wants (not terribly First Ideal-y), and you have to act in very specific ways to bond a spren anyways. I wouldn't find it surprising if he ended up with an Honorblade, but a spren seems very unlikely.

 

 

As to this, we only know Honor is Shattered, and most of his power seems to be held safely via the Stormfather. Cultivation's Holder is still alive, which makes it unlikely she's Shattered (though very possible).

 

Thanks, I've been lurking for the better part of a year, but now I've read everything Cosmere that's published (Plus Liar and White Sand), I thought it was time to weigh in!

 

I've been reading all this time as though Cultivation was shattered, I figured the Nightmother (is that what she's called?) was analagous to the Stormfather-Honor relationship. Woops, that does blow a Hoid-sized hole in my theory. I was going to go on and say that he completely meets "Life before Death" and "Strength before Weakness", but he's already made it crystal clear to the protagonists that he's all about the destination.

 

If everything else stood up though, I'd be all for him having the Elsecaller Honorblade. It would certainly make his travel easier, assuming he doesn't already have a magic specifically geared to Worldhopping that doesn't involve the pools at all (although I'm not at all ready to dismiss that one).

[Moogle]

I've been reading all this time as though Cultivation was shattered, I figured the Nightmother (is that what she's called?) was analagous to the Stormfather-Honor relationship. Woops, that does blow a Hoid-sized hole in my theory. I was going to go on and say that he completely meets "Life before Death" and "Strength before Weakness", but he's already made it crystal clear to the protagonists that he's all about the destination.

 

The Nightwatcher might be to Cultivation as the Stormfather is to Honor. We're not sure, and the WoBs on it are confusing.

 

 

Q:  Is the Nightwatcher a spren of Cultivation in a similar way that the Stormfather is to Honor?

A:  The Nightwatcher is not Cultivation but is related. You're on the right track.

 

 

Q:  Is Nightwatcher Cultivation, or an analogue of the Stormfather to …?

A:  These are excellent questions you should be asking.

 

 

Q:  Lift's spren refers to the Nightwatcher as Mother, right?

A:  They definitely call somebody Mother. The implication in the text is that it's the Nightwatcher.

(This would be related to the honorspren calling the Stormfather their father)

 

As to the Hoid bit, I also wouldn't take that as too strong evidence. I'm very wishywashy on this point, but I'm reasonably certain the First Ideal did not originally bind Surgebinders. It might now, but I'm not sure.

 

I agree that the Elsecaller Honorblade would be a good choice. It'd be my first pick, anyways.

[+Aletus]

Just in case it's not been said, the giant massive clue in Elantris is the rheod. I wager that the magics making it very dangerous to travel to Sel via shadesmar exploded out violently when Hoid hopped in, creating the chasm, and basically causing the events of the book.

[Yata]

Just in case it's not been said, the giant massive clue in Elantris is the rheod. I wager that the magics making it very dangerous to travel to Sel via shadesmar exploded out violently when Hoid hopped in, creating the chasm, and basically causing the events of the book.

But it confirmed ?

[Witborn]

Just in case it's not been said, the giant massive clue in Elantris is the rheod. I wager that the magics making it very dangerous to travel to Sel via shadesmar exploded out violently when Hoid hopped in, creating the chasm, and basically causing the events of the book.

No that's not right. The big hint was the mural in Elantris and that the pool was a shardpool. There's a WoB somewhere about it.

If you're going to respond to a year+ old thread to update it with information, please make sure the info is correct.