Two Pupils of the Double Eye

[TomR]

I was looking at the Knights Radiant chart and thinking about the two pupils. They represent orders 5 and 10 of the Knights Radiant. I started wondering about why they might be offset the way they are. If the Surges are shared between the Orders circularly, why not just use a circle? 

 

My thought was that the spren used by Order 10 had the most Honor while the spren used by Order 5 had the most Cultivation. We know that all spren are composed of some mixture of the two. However, assuming that 5=Renarin=Truthwatcher and 10=Dalinar=Bondsmith, we now potentially have some clues about the orders themseves. Dalinar is bound to a spren who is literally the spren of the Almighty, Honor. Renarin, besides the fact he'd have access to the very Cultivation-like Growth Surge, can to at least some extent see the future, not a talent of Honor:

 

The figure squinted at the horizon. “I cannot see the future completely. Cultivation, she is better at it than I.

 

If the theory is correct, a spren would have more or less of one Shard depending on how close their order is to the pupil; Windrunners and Stonewards would be the next nearest to Honor, Lightweavers and Edgedancers the next nearest to Cultivation, and the last four Orders would be more balanced, leaning a little one way or the other. 

 

I could be looking too hard at a symbol -- the KR may have appropriated it from existing imagery or may have just created an abstract symbol themselves -- but I don't think so. I tend to feel that symbolism comes from somewhere.

Edited March 9, 2014 by TomR

[Argent]

I could agree that the Truthwatchers might get the most Cultivation-y spren, but there is only one Stormfather a Bondsmith can bond with, while there were at least three Bondsmith spren throughout history. We have to ask ourselves how unique the Stormfather is. Was he a one-of-a-kind spren before Honor's Splintering (after which he became even more powerful), or was he some more common variety. one of many, and it was the Splintering that gave him a ton of power, and therefore a ton of sentience? Because if it's the former, then you'll need another couple of spren with high concentration of Honor for the other Bondsmiths to bond with. If it's the latter, I could maybe see it work...

[Armless writer]

I can not think of a reason to have not made the double eye into a circle nice catch. If we could categorize the surges and orders by honorness and cultivationess you might be able to prove your theory. Also try to ask Brandon if the double eye means anything. This definetely deserves an upvote.

Edited March 9, 2014 by armlesswriter

[Morsk]

I like this. I think it's telling us these Orders' "third power" is coming from Honor / Cultivation stuff, rather than one of the Surges. Kaladin's third power is the only one we know, and it's just a second use of gravity. So 8 orders could be like that, but these two have something special.

[Seloun]

In the diagram with the orders and the powers, the layout isn't rotationally symmetric. Note that the 4 orders that form the 'box' (Windrunners, Lightweavers and their up-down mirror pairs) have 4 order linkages while everyone else has 3 (everyone has the two adjacent, plus one opposite; the 'box' also has a link to their up-down mirror). It's unclear if those linkages actually mean anything, but that may be why it's not represented as a simple circle.

[Seerow]

Do we know how many Truthseekers there were?

 

It could be that they also have a very rare/unique spren, and are few in number. It could be that the two in the middle are the rarest, with the others being divided among honor/cultivation lines.

[bridgerald]

Just a thought- if the Stormfather is such a powerful spren, is there any chance he could have multiple bonds? If not, are there any canon references to having multiple Bondsmiths at once?

[Awesomeness Summoned]

If not, are there any canon references to having multiple Bondsmiths at once?

“But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious.

—From Words of Radiance, chapter 16, page 14”

[bridgerald]

@Awesomeness Summoned

 

Thanks.

 

Any reference to there being a strict 1:1 ratio of spren to bond?

[Morsk]

Just a thought- if the Stormfather is such a powerful spren, is there any chance he could have multiple bonds? If not, are there any canon references to having multiple Bondsmiths at once?

There can be 3 Bondsmiths. People disagree over whether they can be more, and whether they all bond the Stormfather or have other spren. I created a poll about it.

[Jaconis]

I'm not sure how I feel about this split. The male heralds are all in the top half of the image, female on the bottom. If your above is true, the male Heralds would all be more of Honor and the female more off Cultivation. That might make sense, given the genders of the shard holders, but it also seems too...neat.