[OB] Spirits of the Stones

[Ciridae]

The Shin appearance along with the notable interaction with stone (the pillars spiking to meet her feet) of the yellow spren in the latest Kaladin chapter made me think about a possible connection to the spirits of the stones mentioned by Szeth. 

On Roshar I think it's somewhat safe to assume that spirit=spren. Szeth thinks to himself that the spirits of the stones themselves promised he was truthless, so we know that whatever they are, they are sapient, and they have authority. 

Outsiders like Rysn think that there are no spren in Shinovar, because when they visit, the smaller, regular spren are missing from the landscape. But a sapient spren, like the yellow lady, is on another level and may have the ability to appear where smaller spren may not. 

From Edgedancer we know that

Spoiler

there have been clusters of voidspren hiding on Roshar even after desolations. Nale believed that what happened at the battle of Narak was an isolated event, caused a hidden group of voidspren bonding with some Listeners, and said that such an event has historical precedent. 

So the idea is basically this: A group of larger voidspren hides in Shinovar after the last desolation, the last place you'd expect to find spren. They advise and guide the Shin, and the result is stone shamanism. The Everstorm is summoned and Odium needs helpers to guide his would be army and handle logistics. The yellow spren we see is one of these spren. I'd hazard a guess that once the desolation is up and running these guys can get all kinds of nasty, maybe by animating stone or by bonding with a listener. For now they're playing the waiting game. We'll see.

What this could explain:

The Shin look: She and the other 'spirits' would have been influenced by the perceptions of the Shin for the past couple millennia. 

Why she is sapient without a bond: She's been around Roshar, probably in the PR, since the last desolation. Hence her smug remark that she's a tad older than a month. We don't know what that amount of time in the PR coupled with probable periodic human interaction does to a spren, but I think this could be the reason for her sapience without an apparent bond.

Her odd interactions with stone: We think there is a connection between odium and stone, what with all the thunderclasts, and I think that this spren plays into the same aesthetic. That they are, as a result, called spirits of the stones is not surprising. 

 

Problems with the theory:

Why can the spren speak perfect Alethi? Yeah, she's old, but languages change all the time, and pretty quickly too. Maybe it's a Connection thing that spren have when in a certain region in the PR, but that feels iffy to me and it bothers me. 

How many spirits of the stones are there?  On a continent as big as Roshar, there would have to be a lot of these spren, or they'd be spread pretty thin. We hear of other spren, presumably smaller, who bring more listeners to the central group, that could be unimportant enough to not qualify as a proper spirits of the stones, but overall I think there should only be a relatively limited number left from the last desolation, instead of thousands of hard to hide, odd spren buzzing around in Shinovar.

 

Overall though, I think there's a pretty decent chance that the odd yellow spren is a voidspren from way back when, that has been hiding out in Shinovar and pulling on some strings attached to shamans.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Ciridae

[Aleksiel]

Where was it stated she can't speak good alethi? I must have missed it.

If spren can hide in Shinovar, she could be a stoneward survivor spren from Recreance; if their kind is one of those Pattern said went nearly extinct during the event (and we saw SW abandoning their oaths and spren en mass during Dalinar's vision of it), then Syl doesn't have any recent memories even from the CR to go by and judge it.Shin's appearance could have influenced the yellow spren perception of itself changing its facial features when in humanoid form. At least I always thought Stone Shamanism and possession of the Honorblades meant they revered Taln, who was left behind by the other Heralds.

However, you bring a good point from ED, so may be you are on the right track. I haven't given any thought to Shin possibly revering voidspren by mistake or deception.

[Michael Portz]

1 hour ago, Aleksiel said:

Where was it stated she can't speak good alethi? I must have missed it..

You misread, OP wondered why the spren CAN speak good Alethi.

[Yata]

I don't think the Language is a problem for a Cognitive Entity. To be complete honestly I don't believe the Spren express themself with a specific language.

[Aleksiel]

1 hour ago, Michael Portz said:

You misread, OP wondered why the spren CAN speak good Alethi.

Ah, you are right, thank you! I didn't see speaking any language as strange, so may be that influenced my misread 

I agree with @Yata, I expect spren to speak all languages from human perspective. In the CR one can understand a language they don't speak and even if spren is in the PR, it is connecte enough to the CR to use this.

[StormblessDave]

I wonder how voidspren look in the cognitive realm, if Pattern looks that creepy imagine how they would look!

 

[Yata]

25 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

I wonder how voidspren look in the cognitive realm, if Pattern looks that creepy imagine how they would look!

 

Nah I believe there is no such a correlation as "the Voidspren have to be uglier or weirdest"

[Blacksmithki]

45 minutes ago, Yata said:

Nah I believe there is no such a correlation as "the Voidspren have to be uglier or weirdest"

I mean according to pattern they have no patterns (somewhere in WoR, was it during the battle of narak when people thought he was one?) so probably very odd looking, and I doubt they would be humanoid in the CR. Or maybe like pattern, but with a patternless design for thier head.

[SilverTiger]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Nah I believe there is no such a correlation as "the Voidspren have to be uglier or weirdest"

Actually, a lot of people believe that voidspren are horrific monsters that are also hideous, then they might appear that way because that's how they are perceived.

[Blacksmithki]

55 minutes ago, SilverTiger said:

Actually, a lot of people believe that voidspren are horrific monsters that are also hideous, then they might appear that way because that's how they are perceived.

That makes me think, would pattern and syl and other Spren influence the CR form of voidspren? Has it been stated somewhere and I don't know?

[YKDG22]

I believe this convergence of parshmen isn't going to go as we expect. I think this may be an honorspren and she's corralling the parshmen together to be slaughtered by a passing human army or an heavily fortified city. I can't see this playing out as obviously as it seems.( the forming of a parshmen army to attack Alethkar)

[Calderis]

@Ciridae funny. I agree with the entirety of your post if you remove the idea that it's a voidspren. 

[Ciridae]

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Ciridae funny. I agree with the entirety of your post if you remove the idea that it's a voidspren. 

I was thinking that maybe it was a corrupted Honorspren, the look is similar enough. Seeing that spren are not invincible (apart from oathbreaking) would raise the stakes for the spren. 

I don't think the spren is any mix of only Cultivation, Honor and Adonalsium. I can get behind a mix that includes Odium, in fact it seems very Odium-esque to corrupt instead of expending investiture to make his own army of powerful splinters. (I agree with the unmade-are-corrupted-dawnsingers-theory). 

I don't see many alternatives to be honest. If she were a nahel spren, where is the bond, why is she sapient, what is she doing guiding listeners? 

Any other variety of nahel-spren-level splinter not containing bits of Odium would be some news.