A Random Thought on Devotion and Dominion

[ScarletSabre]

Welcome everyone, to another round of Rawrbert's Random Thoughts and Wild Theories (That have probably already been speculated on before and answered)! Or RRTaWT(Thpabsobaa) for short.

This time we have a random thought on Devotion and Dominion, our sometimes sought, surprisingly superfluous, somewhat spoken of, splintered Shards of Sel! (Say THAT five times fast!)

So I haven't actually gotten around to rereading my copy of the leatherbound Elantris anniversary edition yet, thanks to a few other books (and games) being higher up on the list for the moment. (And Dark Souls I still steadfastedly blocking me at a certain point...) So it's been a while since I've properly read Elantris.

But I've had a niggling thought in my head for a while, brought about by Brandon's enjoyment of twisting our expectations and playing with what's known to the characters, their betrayals and redemptions.

We know that the Shards of Sel are Devotion and Dominion, and have both been Splintered by Odium. And we know that the phrase "Merciful Domi!" most likely has some root in people's past worship/knowledge of Dominion. And we also know that the Dhakor monks are certainly allied with Dominion and their domination of the world.

But my thought is, is that the truth?

This is literally coming just from the idea that the Dhakor Monks having to sacrafice themselves to teleport Hrathren or use their own version of the Dor, and from the relationship between Elantrians and the landscape around Elantris.

The sacrafice of the Dhakor could be seen as devotion to their god, their faith, and their Gyorm, in the willingness to sacrafice their lives for the betterment of their faith/usefullness to their higher ups. Likewise, the Elantrians are technicaly under the dominon of the landscape, as the Shaod/Reod takes them without their knowledge/consent in the night, and their bodies are trapped in the zombie-like state we see them in for most of the book if ANYTHING substantial enough happens in the surrounding landscape, cutting them off from both the ability to heal, and proper use of the Dor. We also have WOB that using Allomantic/Feruchemical medallion hacking to Connect yourself to Elantris isn't enough to become an Elantrian, and I'd imagine Devotion and Connection to a place are pretty similar...

That being said, the Dhakor sacrafice could also be religious fervor from the brutal indoctrination and brainwashing (Dominion) they suffer, and the Connection Elantrians have to Elantris could be the cause of being taken to become Elantrians. (Devotion)  Still, this does seem like something Brandon might do as a surprising twist later down the line... at least to me.

Now, cue someone pulling out a WOB or five that have him explicitly stating Dominion is associated with Dhakor and Devotion with Elantrians XD But still, hopefully this will at least get a few questions/thoughts!

[Jondesu]

I posited the same thing here: 

Needless to say, I agree, but a lot of the community didn't or found potential pitfalls with the theory.  We might find out more when the sequel to Elantris is released.

EDIT:

2 hours ago, Rawrbert said:

And we know that the phrase "Merciful Domi!" most likely has some root in people's past worship/knowledge of Dominion.

We actually know that Domi doesn't relate to Dominion; it's based on Aon Omi, which means Love (which is the original name Brandon had in mind for Devotion).  That actually makes the Dakhor/Devotion link more interesting in my opinion, since their twisted bones would literally be a twisted version of Devotion.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Jondesu

[Tsidqiyah]

I have been in line with this thought process as well fro a while. But currently don't have anything to add.

[Just another guyn]

What if instead both shards are in both systems. All those who become elantrians seem to be devoted to something. Raoden to the people, (or devoted dominion over the people) kayrita to her family, etc. In fact what if connection to both devotion and domonion is what makes one a "more powerful" elantrian, more connected to the dor? 

 

[Yata]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:04 PM, Just another guyn said:

What if instead both shards are in both systems. All those who become elantrians seem to be devoted to something. Raoden to the people, (or devoted dominion over the people) kayrita to her family, etc. In fact what if connection to both devotion and domonion is what makes one a "more powerful" elantrian, more connected to the dor? 

 

Both of Shards are in the system.

Sel has only a single magic system with different regional sub-magic. The magic System is fuel by the Dor not Devotion or Dominion. Probably some system seems to he more in line with One of them but they are originated by both

[Stormlightning]

I'm just rereading Elantris and find myself pretty convinced that Dakhor is more related to Devotion than Dominion. Their fanaticism says it all. Also, this quote on page 37 of the softback:

Quote

It was a very Fjordell thing to do--ambition was the one emotion Jaddeth would accept as readily as devotion.

Now, it's been like practically a decade since I last read Elantris, and so maybe that's completely worthless because Jaddeth/Fjordell isn't all that connected to Dakhor. But in my brain right now it is, so hopefully that helps. (For the record, it's also got me wondering if Ambition ever came messing around on Sel...)

[The One Who Connects]

20 minutes ago, Stormlightning said:

(For the record, it's also got me wondering if Ambition ever came messing around on Sel...)

In all politeness, please don't. 2 and a half pages of trainwreck and thread hijackery are enough.

Granted, we only came to the conclusion that it is not where Ambition died, nor where any of Ambition's shattered power ended up, but there is a small window where Ambition could have gone to Sel after D&D died. I don't see anything big enough to influence existing at the time, thanks to Khriss and her "human prehistory" comment.
Additionally, given that D&D are the Dor, Ambition going there to hide from Odium doesn't hold up either, as the Spiritual Realm would be lacking in Investiture, as it's all in the CR. Ambition would stick out like a sore thumb.

Edited July 11, 2017 by The One Who Connects
Edit: 1,800 Posts!!

[teknopathetic]

On 2017-07-10 at 8:35 PM, The One Who Connects said:

In all politeness, please don't. 2 and a half pages of trainwreck and thread hijackery are enough.

Granted, we only came to the conclusion that it is not where Ambition died, nor where any of Ambition's shattered power ended up, but there is a small window where Ambition could have gone to Sel after D&D died. I don't see anything big enough to influence existing at the time, thanks to Khriss and her "human prehistory" comment.
Additionally, given that D&D are the Dor, Ambition going there to hide from Odium doesn't hold up either, as the Spiritual Realm would be lacking in Investiture, as it's all in the CR. Ambition would stick out like a sore thumb.

I am on team "Ambition had a plan", so anything is possible here. Maybe Ambition dropped by to do some research and thats where the Soulstone Comet Rain came from (as described by Shai's history of her people). Either way, I think ambition did do some research and that he/she did have a plan to resurrect eventually. A shard like Ambition wouldn't just go down without some genius plan. 

I mean, just look at Threnody; that place is all about struggling to remain alive on both the physical and cognitive realm. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Yitzi2]

On 11/1/2016 at 7:15 AM, Rawrbert said:

And we know that the phrase "Merciful Domi!" most likely has some root in people's past worship/knowledge of Dominion.

Unlikely.  "Domi" comes from the Aonic "Omi", meaning "love".  It would seem that Shu-Korath is influenced by Devotion (or memories of her), and Shu-Dereth by Dominion.

(I wonder how Korathi would take it to find out that Domi was a woman.)

[Jondesu]

On 7/10/2017 at 10:15 PM, Stormlightning said:

I'm just rereading Elantris and find myself pretty convinced that Dakhor is more related to Devotion than Dominion. Their fanaticism says it all. Also, this quote on page 37 of the softback:

Now, it's been like practically a decade since I last read Elantris, and so maybe that's completely worthless because Jaddeth/Fjordell isn't all that connected to Dakhor. But in my brain right now it is, so hopefully that helps. (For the record, it's also got me wondering if Ambition ever came messing around on Sel...)

I didn't remember that quote, but I think it might back my theory (which is much the same as yours, it appears) very nicely.  Good find!  You can see my thread about it in my signature.

On 7/11/2017 at 5:07 PM, Yitzi2 said:

Unlikely.  "Domi" comes from the Aonic "Omi", meaning "love".  It would seem that Shu-Korath is influenced by Devotion (or memories of her), and Shu-Dereth by Dominion.

(I wonder how Korathi would take it to find out that Domi was a woman.)

Yeah, this one has been confirmed, Domi has nothing to do with Dominion (at least the name).

[Amaror]

On 11.7.2017 at 11:07 PM, Yitzi2 said:

Unlikely.  "Domi" comes from the Aonic "Omi", meaning "love".  It would seem that Shu-Korath is influenced by Devotion (or memories of her), and Shu-Dereth by Dominion.

(I wonder how Korathi would take it to find out that Domi was a woman.)

I do think that we have a WOB stating that Shu-Kereth, and thus both Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth, were created after the splintering of Devotion and Dominion. That means that Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth were at least not influenced by Devotion and Dominion or their Shardbearers. Since both of them were created by Apprentices of the original Shu-Kereth inventor, I personally think it has most likely to do with their personal connection to the both shards rather than any direct Influence of the Shards.

[The One Who Connects]

On 7/25/2017 at 2:54 PM, Amaror said:

I do think that we have a WOB stating that Shu-Kereth, and thus both Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth, were created after the splintering of Devotion and Dominion. That means that Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth were at least not influenced by Devotion and Dominion or their Shardbearers. Since both of them were created by Apprentices of the original Shu-Kereth inventor, I personally think it has most likely to do with their personal connection to the both shards rather than any direct Influence of the Shards.

It's Shu-Keseg, but you are correct.

Quote

Chris King (Miyabi)

And here is the last one for Sel: Does Shu-Keseg predate the splintering of Devotion and Dominion?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I don't believe it does.

However, our religious splinter groups could have been influenced by the Seons/Skaze. This is technically "of the Shards," but indirect enough to not count. Their personal connections may have drawn a Seon/Skaze to themselves, leading to the tradition we know and love in Arelon.