What is the strength enhancement of Shardplate?

[Oudeis he/him]

I looked for, but did not see, this thread yet. My apologies if I missed it in my search.

 

How much stronger are you in Shardplate? Do we have any hard numbers from the books? Suggestions? Things from which we can extrapolate?

 

I know Shardplate provides a number of benefits, but I'm looking at the moment specifically at might.

 

I also think we should discount things we see Dalinar do; he's clearly an exception to the rule. I don't think anyone else could have Last Clapped a Chasmfiend.

 

Does anyone know that it specifically says at some point, "the strength of ten men" or similar? Leaps are also curious; we know they weigh "100 stone" (1400 pounds) yet they feel light... is that part of the strength, or is it an ancillary effect, like the sensation of touch through the gloves?

[Voidus]

Gonna be hard to get a semi-accurate assessment without also knowing things like how the Plates weight is influenced. If you can leap 3x higher does that mean it gives you 3x strength or do you account for the weight of the Plate too which would make it a lot more?

[Pathfinder]

I looked for, but did not see, this thread yet. My apologies if I missed it in my search.

 

How much stronger are you in Shardplate? Do we have any hard numbers from the books? Suggestions? Things from which we can extrapolate?

 

I know Shardplate provides a number of benefits, but I'm looking at the moment specifically at might.

 

I also think we should discount things we see Dalinar do; he's clearly an exception to the rule. I don't think anyone else could have Last Clapped a Chasmfiend.

 

Does anyone know that it specifically says at some point, "the strength of ten men" or similar? Leaps are also curious; we know they weigh "100 stone" (1400 pounds) yet they feel light... is that part of the strength, or is it an ancillary effect, like the sensation of touch through the gloves?

Well it is stated in the book that the armor has to be put on feet first otherwise the bearer would have trouble even standing in the breastplate due to its weight without the armored legs to assist, so it is probably like shardblades where they are lighter than we would expect, but still decently heavy. I will do a search on shadeplate and see what I come up with regarding quotes

 

So far have found one quote mentioning strength of men, though it says many, not a definable number, see below:

 

Page 187 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "With a heave, he pulled himself up, the Plate lending him the strength of many men."

 

Will add more as I come across them

 

Looks like the shardplate feeling light is on the part of the wearer. Reference below:

 

page 205 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "A man in Shardplate was heavy and put a great strain on both his mount and saddle."

 

some further clarity:

 

page 372 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "One always put the armor on from the feet upward. Shardplate was extremely heavy; without the enhanced strength it provided, no man would be able to fight in it."

 

maybe some can be extrapolated from the description of the warhammer he wields (though it is dalinar who you asked to exclude so take this with a grain of salt then)

 

page 414 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "He didn't have to wait long for the hammer; it came pulled by two men on a small cart. Sweating, the soldiers heaved it from the cart, the half as thick as a man's wrist and the front of the head larger than an outspread palm. Two men together could barely lift it. Dalinar grabbed the hammer with one gauntleted hand, swinging it up to rest on his shoulder."

 

Perhaps those who are better with math than I and historical materials could figure out how heavy that hammer could conceivably be based on those dimensions? 

 

Unfortunately it looks like a lot of what we have so far in the vein of what a shardplate can do, seems to be from Dalinar. Here is another:

 

page 414 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "He hefted and swung again, this time breaking free a large section of rock. Though it would have been difficult for two or three regular men to lift, Dalinar grabbed it with one hand and tossed it aside"

Edited February 24, 2016 by Pathfinder

[DocHoliday he/him]

I think a.real reasonable upper limit for 3 men to be approximately 180 lbs (within a

[Jimmy he/him]

Two men struggling to lift the hammer means that it is very heavy. Consider that these porters would be the kind who do physical labour just about every day and are conditioned to it. Also take into account that the hammer was designed to be lifted and used, this isn't some awkward or clumsy weight. 

My average bench press is one hundred kilograms - 220 pounds. I'll do that fifteen times without pause before I can't lift it again for a minute, then repeat that four times, twice a day. Once you bring the legs into use, a deadlift, then we're talking about 330 pounds or 150 kilograms. This isn't to brag, but to show the kinds of weights we're talking about, a frame of reference. That hammer would have to weight at least two or three hundred kilograms for two men to almost not be able to lift it. Then Dalinar does it easily with one arm. 

Bit of tin foil hat maths and some gross guesstimation... Average bicep curl is 40kg, Dalinar's seems to be about 300kg. 300 x 2.5 = 750kg at an average level of exertion. So far, for Dalinar I wouldn't say that being in the 1 ton total strength range is out of the question or more with adrenaline. 

 

Which isn't that unrealistic when you think about it. That's about the strength range of a male silverback gorilla. I'd have to put that down as my final theory, an average shard plater is on the same strength level as an average male silverback. 

 

Adrenaline throws everything out of the window though. Like, right through that window, across the street, through the walls of next building, collecting the sheets and $200 along the way and streaking out through the next window. 

[DocHoliday he/him]

You make fair points, I don't think that Adrenaline necessarily is magnified by Plate though.

[Yata he/him]

I am not 100% sure, but I remember a WoB about the extra might of a Plate that said it is comparable with Allomantic Pewter.

 

And someone during the recent Q&A discovered that regular pewter double the Sthrenght of the User.

(I am sorry but at the moment I can't search the sources)

[Pathfinder]

I am not 100% sure, but I remember a WoB about the extra might of a Plate that said it is comparable with Allomantic Pewter.

 

And someone during the recent Q&A discovered that regular pewter double the Sthrenght of the User.

(I am sorry but at the moment I can't search the sources)

I have not seen that WoB, and personally I assume he was referring to only stormlight, but that makes me think, if that is the case then would a radiant with stormlight and plate be twice as strong as an allomancer with pewter? I am not saying it wouldn't make sense if that was a case, since they are basically wearing power armor, but that just made me think.

 

Yeah I saw that WoB somewhere too, which kinda surprised me in comparison to what we see Vin do/accomplish. Just doubling the natural strength doesn't feel like a big increase, but then again as I type this, from a strictly number comparison, being able to bench press 220 pounds as Jimmy stated, when compared to being able to bench press 440 pounds is pretty decent. 

[Oudeis he/him]

It's from the Philly Signing, and I'm simply too exhausted to link right now, but I'll try to edit this post in the morning. Unless someone has done a better job of transcribing it than me, it's currently paraphrased, but it should give you a link to the audio and an idea of the time code so you can find it yourself.

 

At base burning, Mr. Sanderson saw it roughly equivalent to doubling your physical might. At flaring, he saw it as tripling. Everyone gets better at burning metals they longer they do it, and Vin did burn a lot of pewter, so while she never became a savant her tricks should be somewhat beyond what a person at twice her strength should be able to do. And she did flare frequently. And, as has been commented on, she was always able to draw more power from metals than people expected her to be able to. From that first night she learned about her powers, I bet at a flare she was already noticeably stronger than 3x.

[Farnsworth]

Also, how are Kaladin, Shallan, and the new Radiants going to get Shardplate? Their spren turn into shardblades, but what is going to turn into shardplate?

Edited March 9, 2016 by Figberts

[Pathfinder]

It's from the Philly Signing, and I'm simply too exhausted to link right now, but I'll try to edit this post in the morning. Unless someone has done a better job of transcribing it than me, it's currently paraphrased, but it should give you a link to the audio and an idea of the time code so you can find it yourself.

 

At base burning, Mr. Sanderson saw it roughly equivalent to doubling your physical might. At flaring, he saw it as tripling. Everyone gets better at burning metals they longer they do it, and Vin did burn a lot of pewter, so while she never became a savant her tricks should be somewhat beyond what a person at twice her strength should be able to do. And she did flare frequently. And, as has been commented on, she was always able to draw more power from metals than people expected her to be able to. From that first night she learned about her powers, I bet at a flare she was already noticeably stronger than 3x.

Ah, perfect. That makes much more sense for my headcannon. Thanks for the explanation!

 

Also, how are Kaladin, Shallan, and the new Radiants going to get Shardplate? Their spren turn into honorblades, but what is going to turn into honorplate?

Well there are a lot of theories, but the one I am mostly behind, and WoB does imply is going in the right direction is that minor spren (wind spren for honor spren, creation spren for cryptic spren), end up forming up into the armor as the radiant progresses in their oaths. Also not all of orders decided to use shardplate at all. 

[Oversleep]

As for the adrenaline rush, I want to provide a story.
Imagine a 15 years old boy, rather thin, probably not exercising (no muscle build-up, but in the healthy interval). Puberty is just starting to kick in, right? He did not weight much, I could easily lift him in the air.

Well, the situation is that they're doing some things on a boat (small one, Omega)

and somebody unscrewed forestay from the deck. Result? The mast just fell down. He last-clapped it, alone; and without any problem turned it upright again. Kicker? I have seen fixing the forestay. Three grown men were needed to hold the mast (they took it from him).

That's the adrenaline for ya. (Not to mention mothers ripping car doors away...)

So Shardplate + probably Stormlight holding + adrenaline? That chasmfiend last-clap... plausible.

But I wonder if the Shardplate enhancement isn't just the Stormlight-holding enhancement just somehow stuck to the Plate...

Edited March 2, 2016 by Oversleep

[Farnsworth]

Ah, perfect. That makes much more sense for my headcannon. Thanks for the explanation!

 

Well there are a lot of theories, but the one I am mostly behind, and WoB does imply is going in the right direction is that minor spren (wind spren for honor spren, creation spren for cryptic spren), end up forming up into the armor as the radiant progresses in their oaths. Also not all of orders decided to use shardplate at all. 

 

Makes sense, but wouldn't that require a bond with a minor spren? It would have to be a weak bond, because I don't think that unintelligent spren can make super strong bonds. Can they?

[Pathfinder]

Makes sense, but wouldn't that require a bond with a minor spren? It would have to be a weak bond, because I don't think that unintelligent spren can make super strong bonds. Can they?

Some have said, and I personally am inclined to agree, that we have already seen that begin with Shallan (when she draws and she is surrounded by tons of creation spren, seemingly more than typical), and when Kal fights Szeth (windspren surround him and fly with him)

Edited March 9, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Yata he/him]

At base burning, Mr. Sanderson saw it roughly equivalent to doubling your physical might. At flaring, he saw it as tripling. Everyone gets better at burning metals they longer they do it, and Vin did burn a lot of pewter, so while she never became a savant her tricks should be somewhat beyond what a person at twice her strength should be able to do. And she did flare frequently. And, as has been commented on, she was always able to draw more power from metals than people expected her to be able to. From that first night she learned about her powers, I bet at a flare she was already noticeably stronger than 3x.

We have to understand if the enhancement of pewter is or not related with your own physical strength.

If two Misting with the same Allomantic Strength will burn pewter but one of them have a body more powerful than the other... wil they obtain the same "extra strength" ?

I have always though that while in Feruchemy your strong body became a bonus to your Feruchemy, in Allomancy your body status is meaningless. But I have no real proofs just an Idea.

 

If this is true an average allomancer recives from pewter around the strength of a man (and an extra strength of two man where he flares the metal).

Therefore Vin may balance her weak body quite well without thinking about her over average Allomantic Power (I suppose she is quite 50% more power than the Average Allomancer).

[MoS03]

About Vin:

When she's training in book 2, it's discussed what she can do with pewter. Allomancy is the power of Preservation, and has absolutely nothing to do with a person's physical strength.

She gets X amount of strength from pewter, and her particular allomantic power aside, Ham gets the same X amount. However, Ham is much larger, so his X strength increase has to move his Y weight, while Vin only needs to move Y/2 weight.

Same bonus, but she has to lift half the weight with it.

[asterion137 he/him]

As for the adrenaline rush, I want to provide a story.

Imagine a 15 years old boy, rather thin, probably not exercising (no muscle build-up, but in the healthy interval). Puberty is just starting to kick in, right? He did not weight much, I could easily lift him in the air.

Well, the situation is that they're doing some things on a boat (small one, Omega)

and somebody unscrewed forestay from the deck. Result? The mast just fell down. He last-clapped it, alone; and without any problem turned it upright again. Kicker? I have seen fixing the forestay. Three grown men were needed to hold the mast (they took it from him).

That's the adrenaline for ya. (Not to mention mothers ripping car doors away...)

So Shardplate + probably Stormlight holding + adrenaline? That chasmfiend last-clap... plausible.

But I wonder if the Shardplate enhancement isn't just the Stormlight-holding enhancement just somehow stuck to the Plate...

upvoting for use of lastclap lol

[BrightVoid he/him]

Well the bond with lesser spren cannot be too strong, because Syl does not consider plate a dead spren, and Renarin has no problem wearing plate.

[Hemalurgist]

Well doesn't Syl say that she used to hunt some type of lesser spren. So greater spren (honor spren and other bond spren) probably don't care too much about lesser spren.

[A Windspren he/him]

Well doesn't Syl say that she used to hunt some type of lesser spren. So greater spren (honor spren and other bond spren) probably don't care too much about lesser spren.

 

Where did she say this? I have both SA books practically memorized, and I don't remember Syl ever saying that she went hunting for spren.

[Emerald101 he/him]

There's a WoB on whether or not lesser spren can bond. (Source)

QUESTION

Could any type of spren bond with a person (even if the results wouldn't be a Knight Radiant)? Or only the ones associated with a branch of the Knights?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ooh, that's an excellent question. This is something theoretically possible for a lesser spren to achieve.

 

And with regard to Syl not caring about plate, I'd say dead sprenplate vs. dead sprenblade would be on the order of dead animal vs. dead person. A dead animal (think stray axehound at most sympathy or cremling at least) is still sad, but not remotely on the level of a fellow human being (not to make light of those who've lost pets. The emotional attachment there makes it a completely different story). On the other hand though, Syl describes windspren as being her "cousins", so who knows.

 

Edit: better phrasing, parentheticals, and spacing

Edited April 17, 2016 by Emerald101