Why are Bronze burners able to hear The Well of Ascension?

[Voidus]

 I am absolutely, 100% certain that copperclouds do stack, but I can't find a quote that says that. I am pretty sure Brandon told me this a while ago, perhaps when we were less good at citing stuff. But I am very certain about this, because I have a character in the Mistborn RPG who uses coppercloud stacking, and I remember being very pleased when that was confirmed to actually work. Sorry I don't have a citation for you, though :/

That's alright I'll take your word on it, should we add this to one of the FAQ's or wait til we get proper confirmation do you guys think?

[Vortaan]

I've becoming more convinced that Bronze and Copper actually work with Investiture in general, not just the Metallic Arts. I would wager that a very skilled Seeker can probably detect large amounts of Breath, Stormlight, and probably Elantrans at all times. The interesting bit about that theory is that probably everything in the Cosmere either Pushes or Pulls, to a Seeker's senses. I haven't really thought through what that could mean yet, though. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I think a bronze burner could only detect someone in the process of awakening, not just standing around possessing breath.

[Voidus]

Depends how much Breath I'd say, and what about Returned? Actually what about Splinters in general? Could TLR be detected even when not burning anything?

[Comatose]

This intrigues me, and it certainly does explain Copper as an Internal Pulling metal. It throws Bronze for me now though. As a pushing metal, this would make a Seeker something like a sonar, sending 'pings' out which on contact with someone else burning metals are distorted and bounce back. This is somehow counter-intuitive, unless you speculate that what it bounces off is a separate pulse, or ripple, caused by that burning. This would allow it to remain consistent with the speculation of the power having a certain 'pulse' or 'wavelength' associated with it when accessed by an Allomancer (otherwise, it would just bounce off each allomancer with no identifiable pattern that Seekers can learn to read).

 

I'm not arguing with your 'ping' model, because that might be a good way to picture seeking, but it's important to remember that copper and bronze are internal metals, and that means it's something about the person that is being pushed or pulled, not the pulses or clouds they are putting out.  I tend to think of the pushing and pulling with copper and bronze more like the pushing and pulling of pewter and tin, the other internal metals, where one pulls something inside of someone, changing them in some way that dampens allomantic pulses around them, while bronze pushes something inside of someone that makes them able to observe allomantic pulses.

 

I've becoming more convinced that Bronze and Copper actually work with Investiture in general, not just the Metallic Arts. I would wager that a very skilled Seeker can probably detect large amounts of Breath, Stormlight, and probably Elantrans at all times. The interesting bit about that theory is that probably everything in the Cosmere either Pushes or Pulls, to a Seeker's senses. I haven't really thought through what that could mean yet, though. 

 

I asked this question in the Brandon Q&A but unfortunately, he never got to it   I strongly agree with this though.  If you look at the quote someone cited earlier, about listening to ripples in the fabric of creation or something, I think that could very easily apply to other instances of investiture, especially since we know seeking can also sense Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, and because Vin initially had to use bronze to sense the Well.

 

Also, it's interesting looking at the kinds of things Bronze can tell you about an allomancer:

"You can identify precisely which parts of a person's emotions a Soother or Rioter intends to influence. You'll also be able to tell when someone is flaring their metal. If you grow very skilled, you might even be able to tell when they're running low on metals." (20.284)

 

The one I'm interested in particular is the amount of metals someone has left.  I'd be interested to see how that applies to a magic system like awakening.  Perhaps a seeker who trained enough could tell how much breath was being invested in something, or how much breath a person had total? 

 

Also, since we still don't know a lot about the extent of a Seeker's abilities to sense investiture (like what sensing Feruchemy or Hemalrugy would be like... do they have pulses to?) I'm not sure if we can apply the "magic has to be being used to be sensed" rule that applies to allomancy to all magic systems, though the sensing of ripples of creation quote does seem to indicate that at least something active needs to be happening.

[Windrunner]

It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't need there to be any active Aons around to seek an Elantrian. With all the glowing they do, I think there's quite a bit of investiture running through them at all times.

 

I'm less sold on the idea that Seekers could sense items invested with Breath. It takes an Awakener of the Seventh Heightening to see that. I think if it's possible, you'd have to be a seriously powerful Seeker to do so.

[Vortaan]

It wouldn't surprise me if you didn't need there to be any active Aons around to seek an Elantrian. With all the glowing they do, I think there's quite a bit of investiture running through them at all times.

 

I'm less sold on the idea that Seekers could sense items invested with Breath. It takes an Awakener of the Seventh Heightening to see that. I think if it's possible, you'd have to be a seriously powerful Seeker to do so.

 

If you consider that Breath animating an object that doesn't naturally move is very similar to burning a metal to create an effect that you wouldn't normally have, it works a bit better in my opinion

[Phantom Monstrosity]

If you consider that Breath animating an object that doesn't naturally move is very similar to burning a metal to create an effect that you wouldn't normally have, it works a bit better in my opinion

It's more simiilar to having a hemalurgic spike.

 

specially since we know seeking can also sense Feruchemy and Hemalurgy

When did we hear about hemalurgy?

Edited May 2, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Comatose]

I thought in the same place we learned about Feruchemy, buy maybe I'm mis-remembering that quote.

[Vortaan]

It's more simiilar to having a hemalurgic spike.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it more, I'll wager it's more like being an Elantran than a koloss. However if you can sense Hemalurgy, you should be able to sense koloss, no?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I thought in the same place we learned about Feruchemy, buy maybe I'm mis-remembering that quote.

 

Okay yeah it's from here

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1729-a-late-breaking-report/

 

We asked if it was possible to use bronze to Seek Feruchemy. He said it could be possible. If it were to happen, it was very hard, because the Inquisitors would desperately like to be able to find Feruchemists that way, and it was implied they had not discovered this power. So, it is a freaking hard technique to learn, if possible at all.

 

I don't see anything about hemalurgy, or any indication that this is 'detect feruchemical storages' instead of 'detect storing/tapping from storages'.

 

I mean, inquisitors can already tell if something is/has a feruchemical storage by filing off a bit of it, swallowing, and checking for any 'shadow reserves'.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Satsuoni]

Ah, yes I've found a first mention of this here, by Comatose himself. That was the one I remembered, actually. Ok, I have formulated a crude theory of Bronze/copper, which I think is outside the scope of this thread. I'll make a spin-off.