Odium Reigns, Cultivation Changes, and Honor is Dead

[FlashWrogan]

The Way of Kings is very vague on the nature of its magic systems and how they relate to Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. We have a few facts we know about systems such as Windrunning, Soulcasting and others, but we know very little about why they work that way, and how they interact with the shards of Roshar. I have only recently joined the forums and become aware of the Cosmere. As I was rereading The Way of Kings I saw a picture and a theory form in my head that was very different from anything else I had assumed or read before. A lot of it is based on small hints here and there with a lot of conjecture, but it feels right. I want to give credit to Abba Zaba in his "On the current state of Shardblades" here, as his theory was inspiration for mine and I have borrowed some of his ideas.

It occurred to me that perhaps the workings of the magic systems on Roshar are significantly more complex than anything we have seen so far. Brandon has been working on this series longer than any other he has published, and it shows. The ecology of the planet is detailed and significantly different from our own, whereas the other worlds that we have seen have ecology similar to our own. It is a logical to then assume that the inner workings of Roshar might not be as simple as one magic system corresponding with each shard with some interaction between (like on Scadrial). What if many, or all of the magic systems involve some kind of interaction between two, or all three Shards?

The Theory

The highstorms and Stormlight are of Odium. It is his face that Kaladin sees in the highstorm and he has corrupted the hearts of men, the Shardblades, and Shardplate over the years since Honor was shattered. The spren are of cultivation, likely splinters. The Nahel bond, the surgebindings themselves, and originally the Shardblades and Shardplate are of Honor.

Odium: Proving his link with the highstorms

Death cries

“Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red.”

—Collected: Jesachev, 1173, 12 seconds pre-death. Subject: one of our own ardents, overheard during his last moments. The link between my theory and this death cry is tenuous. I would guess that the wall of black, white and red might be the desolation. The reference to a wall may be linked to a stormwall.

“Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.”

—Collected: Chachanan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Iriali descent. This, to me, says that Honor, Cultivation, and Odium ruled and now Odium reigns (being referred to as the Broken One simply because he has a more evil nature than other shards). While this doesn't have a direct bearing on our discussion, it got me thinking. We have had the statement of Odium reigning corroborated by the face in the sky. We know Tanavast/Almighty/Honor is "dead" by his own statement. We also know that there is some sort of consciousness linked with the highstorms that is also linked with Stormlight. It got me wondering what the source of the storms, Stormlight, and that face actually is. It wouldn't make sense for it to be Honor/Tanavast because he is splintered and dead and wouldn't be able to talk to Kaladin. Jezrien was someone I considered, but it seems illogical that he could be the source of Stormlight, which must be the "power of creation" channeled through one of the Shards like other magic system. Cultivation is a possibility, but lets set that aside for now, as the other evidence hints toward Odium.

“Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.”

—Dated Palahakev, 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. Subject: a Thaylen sailor. This associates the storm with a conflict and someone, presumably Odium, winning.

“They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart.”

—Tanatanes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death. An Azish itinerant worker. Sample of particular note. The Desolations are again associated with with a storm and stormwall. True this could simply be because storms are a big part of their culture and a sudden and devastating war could well be described that way, but the association could also be because Odium actually is the storm.

Jasnah's notes

“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”

—Perhaps the oldest surviving original source mentioning the city, requoted in The Vavibrar, line 1804. What I wouldn’t give for a way to translate the Dawnchant. This is actually the source inspiration of this theory. The wording "nearest to Honor" suggests that the city could not be placed where Honor actually was. There could be many reasons for this, but the one that struck me was that Honor perhaps "existed" in a place beyond the western coast of the continent, farthest from the source of the storms. This suggests that Honor was far removed from the source of storms, perhaps because Odium is that source? As an interesting tangent, this suggests that Urithiru is in Shinovar. It seems that the Shin are very honorable, as we see from Szeth, which works along these lines.

“Like a highstorm, regular in their coming, yet always unexpected.”

—The word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearances. See pages 57, 59, and 64 of Tales by Hearthlight. Another connection between highstorms and Desolations.

An important piece of text to consider in concern to this theory is Kaladin's two interactions with the face in the sky:

He hit hard. His vision flashed with sparkling lights that melded together and were followed by blackness.

Not unconsciousness, blackness.

Kaladin blinked. All was still. The storm was quiet, and everything was purely dark. I’m dead, he thought immediately. But why could he feel the wet stone roof beneath him? He shook his head, dripping rainwater down his face. There was no lightning, no wind, no rain. The silence was unnatural.

He stumbled to his feet, managing to stand on the gently sloped roof. The stone was slick beneath his toes. He couldn’t feel his wounds. The pain just wasn’t there.

He opened his mouth to call out into the darkness, but hesitated. That silence was not to be broken. The air itself seemed to weigh less, as did he. He almost felt as if he could float away.

In that darkness, an enormous face appeared just in front of his. A face of blackness, yet faintly traced in the dark. It was wide, the breadth of a massive thunderhead, and extended far to either side, yet it was somehow still visible to Kaladin. Inhuman. Smiling.

Kaladin felt a deep chill—a rolling prickle of ice—scurry down his spine and through his entire body. The sphere suddenly burst to life in his hand, flaring with a sapphire glow. It illuminated the stone roof beneath him, making his fist blaze with blue fire. His shirt was in tatters, his skin lacerated. He looked down at himself, shocked, then looked up at the face.

It was gone. There was only the darkness.

This clearly links the source of Stormlight with the face. Other things that stood out to me in support of my theory is the fact that this face is smiling and black. What reason would Jezrien, Honor, or Cultivation have to smile at Kaladin at this point (if it is indeed focused on Kaladin)? If that face is Odium's, he could be smiling at Kaladin's predicament and pain.

CHILD OF TANAVAST. CHILD OF HONOR. CHILD OF ONE LONG SINCE DEPARTED. The sudden voice shook Kaladin; he floundered in the air.

THE OATHPACT WAS SHATTERED.

The booming sound made the stormwall itself vibrate. Kaladin hit the ground, separating from the storm. He skidded to a stop, feet throwing up sprays of water. Stormwinds crashed into him, but he was enough a part of them that they neither tossed nor shook him.

MEN RIDE THE STORMS NO LONGER. The voice was thunder, crashing in the air. THE OATHPACT IS BROKEN, CHILD OF HONOR.

“I don’t understand!” Kaladin screamed into the tempest.

A face formed before him, the face he had seen before, the aged face as wide as the sky, its eyes full of stars.

ODIUM COMES. MOST DANGEROUS OF ALL THE SIXTEEN. YOU WILL NOW GO.

Something blew against him. “Wait!” Kaladin said. “Why is there so much war? Must we always fight?” He wasn’t sure why he asked. The questions simply came out.

The storm rumbled, like a thoughtful aged father. The face vanished, shattering into droplets of water.

More softly, the voice answered, ODIUM REIGNS.

My initial interpretation of this interaction was a benevolent one. I assumed it was either Jezrien or Cultivation trying to communicate with Kaladin and give him information. However on reanalysis, there is nothing that really suggests whether this entity is benevolent or malevolent. It could be that this is Odium speaking, addressing someone who has trespassed on his domain. The biggest problem with this is that Odium refers to himself in the third person, but that is not outside the realm of possibility.

“You can see it there,” the figure said, pointing. “If you look closely. It begins in the distance.”

Dalinar glanced in that direction, annoyed. He couldn’t make out anything specific. <snip>

The man didn’t answer. He just kept pointing. And… yes, something was happening. There was a shadow in the air, approaching. A wall of darkness. Like a highstorm, only wrong.

This is another connection between highstorms and Desolations.

Moving on to some conjecture. From these quotes and assumptions we have concluded that Odium reigns, washing over the land with power and Stormlight every few days. He has exhorted his influence over mankind in this way bit by bit over the years. He has corrupted mens hearts and led them to wars as well as corrupted the Shardplate and Shardblades. I will get into this in more detail later. Now I know that some think that it isn't plausible for Odium's power to fuel Honor's Surgebinding, but we have seen an instance where a Shard's power was used against a Shard's intent: (HoA spoiler)

Rashek's creation and use of the Kandra so that they were "of Preservation."

Cultivation: Proving her connection with spren

The spren, including those that bond to create surgebinding, never seemed directly linked to Honor to me. I never accepted Syl naming herself as honorspren as being factually accurate. The post below explains it quite well.

I think that "honorspren" is a colloquial term which Syl picked up from her past life. I don't think it means the same thing as Honor does when referring to the shard's Intent.

Consider the following hypothetical: The Interlude with the spren-hunter guy indicates that spren are commonly named by their discoverers. Assume for the moment that Syl is more properly called a "protectionspren" (seems reasonable, considering Kaladin's second oath). The first person to interact with a protectionspren would have likely been a Windrunner like Kaladin. To him/her, protecting others and honor would have been indistinguishable. He/she thought of the spren as being connected to his/her honor, so he/she called it an "honorspren". Since protecting others is commonly regarded as honorable, the name stuck.

So in a sense, all the types of spren involved in the Nahel bond are "Honorspren", but only Syl and other Windrunner spren are "honorspren". They all represent facets of honor, but only the Windrunner spren got the name.

Source

I got to thinking in my potential scenario with Honor's source being in the west and Odium's source being in the east with the source of storms about how sprain interact. Why are there no spren in Shinovar? The easy answer is that spren are of change and there isn't much in the way of change in Shinovar. There is the possibility that spren are separate from Honor and that is mixed in with their absence from Shinovar. I think the ten kind of spren that produce surgebinding each have their own name (such as protectionspren or truthspren) and become "Honorspren" as it were, since they are using Honor's Nahel bond.

I really have no solid evidence for this part of my theory, it was just general feelings and conjecture. It makes logical sense that if Odium has a direct involvement in surgebinding and fabrials, that Cultivation has a part too.

Honor

Here it is mostly filling in the blanks and making assumptions. Honor being shattered, it is logical that its part in today's magic is less cohesive, and may have deteriorated. I believe that the Nahel bond and Surgebinding itself is specifically of Honor. My theory also hints at a possible explanation for Szeth's surgebinding. If Shinovar is where Urithiru, the home of the lost Radiants, is, then it is certainly possible that knowledge and technology left there led to Shin warriors being able to Surgebind and provided at least one Shardblade. The oaths that Szeth is bound to as Truthless make me feel that Shinovar's belief system is very strongly rooted in honor, but that perhaps their beliefs have decayed or been corrupted over time. Szeth's oaths have a ring of the idea of honor, but not the true intent behind it. I also propose that Sharplate and Shardblades were originally of Honor:

Shardplate/Shardblades

Abba Zaba is the one who started me thinking on this and he can explain it better than me:

Kaladin: "Dare I trust him?" Syl: "He's a good man. I've watched him. Despite that thing he carried." Kaladin: "That thing?" Syl: "The Shardblade." K: "What do you care about it?" Syl: "I dont know. It just feels wrong to me. I hate it. Im glad he got rid of it. Makes him a better man."

This struck me as odd. Syl is an honorspren, presumably bound to the Radiants of old, carried, of all things, Shardblades. I dont assume to know her feelings towards the former blades, but the blade was used against the Voidbringers and as a source for good, there is no reason she should have such a strong negative reaction to the weapon, so what is it?

There are numerous other instances throughout the text where the nature of the blades men currently carry is called into question. After Dalinar's vision of the day of recreance, he sees all the Radiants abandon plate and blade, yet there are so many of them and so few blades to account for this day and age. Are those blades simply lost, or something else entirely? In Dalinar's final vision the Almighty says: "Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore." Now this quote could mean the Dawnshards, or since this is a quote we connect with the Knights Radiant, could mean the shardblades they once carried. It is possible the noble characteristics in man are what will allow these shards to return.

However, I propose this, perhaps the shards currently possessed by men are inherently evil, shards from Odium, meant only to divide and destroy men. Perhaps in the last desolation as the Almighty says, "Your legends say that you won. But the truth is that we lost. And we are losing." Odium won. When we think of the Knights Radiant betraying mankind, it may have been due to Odium's influence and when men picked up the shards left behind by the Radiants (which lost their stormlight), we see they begin slaughtering one another for possession of one. This is exactly what Odium wants and what his influence would inspire. That is why Dalinar, according to Syl, is a better man for having given the blade up. Someone who speaks the oaths, who possesses honor and who is inherently good must bring the true shardblades/plate back to mankind so they can fight back when the true desolation comes. As others have mentioned Szeth cannot lash himself while in plate, while the Radiants of old, who fought for good, clearly could. These are the reasons why I think that the blades/plate of old are different from those currently on Roshar.

Source

My theory here is only slightly divergent. My guess is that the plate and blades are the same physical objects that the Radiants abandoned, but they changed when the oaths were no longer associated with the shards. Odium may well have had a part in changing and corrupting the shards. I think the Thrill is also linked to the current state of shards. We only have confirmation that Dalinar, Adolin, and Sadeas experience the Thrill. While Dalinar says that it is something that many/most men experience, he also says that people didn't talk about it, as it was private. It is not too much of a stretch to guess that only shardbearers experience the Thrill. If the subject is such a Taboo to talk about, highprinces wouldn't tend to talk to their inferiors about such a thing and would lead to misconceptions.

The figure was silent for a moment. Then he spoke in a clear, crisp voice. “Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore.” He turned to Dalinar, meeting his eyes. “The Knights Radiant must stand again.”

“I cannot comprehend how that can be done,” Dalinar said softly. “But I will try.”

“Men must face them together,” the figure said, stepping up to Dalinar, placing a hand on his shoulder. “You cannot squabble as in times past. He’s realized that you, given time, will become your own enemies. That he doesn’t need to fight you. Not if he can make you forget, make you turn against one another. Your legends say that you won. But the truth is that we lost. And we are losing.”

The way to fight Odium is to undo his corruption of men and shards and unite against him. Seems pretty self evident .

Summary

I can imagine some of the objections that people may have. Highstorms are the driving form of water and nutrition for the plants of most of Roshar. The storms pretty much drive the ecology of Roshar, so how can they be from Odium? I envision that before Odium came to Roshar, the world looked a lot more like Shinovar or Earth. Then Odium arrived with his Desolations and highstorms, devastating both the people and the ecology of the world. While the people of Roshar were given respite from the Desolations, the highstorms stripped at the land mercilessly. Dirt was stripped away and plants were torn out by the roots. Many plants that weren't uprooted couldn't survive without proper soil cover. The plant life evolved to withstand the highstorms and collect the nutritious rainwater. The extra nutrition in highstorms makes sense, as these storms pull up dirt and rocks across the land and blow them somewhere else. The release of Stormlight in the storms is a byproduct of the huge release of power that Odium has to give to push the highstorm across the land (there may be more bound up in this, perhaps Stormlight is also how Odium corrupts? I'm iffy on that though). Another small point in my favor is that Voidbringers are supposed to be able to retain Stormlight perfectly, which would make complete sense if both are associated with Odium.

Cultivation is ever-present in landscape, changing and growing the ecology to adapt to Odium's influence (hence change and sprain).

And Honor? Honor is dead, splintered apart. We see remnants of him in a forgotten magic system (windrunning, soulcasting, and possibly Memory) and ancient powerful artifacts (shards). We see his Nahel bond present with Syl, and we see his last words echoing through time to Dalinar.

[king of nowhere]

most of it is likely.

the only thing I don't find convincing is stormlight being of odium and being necessary to power other magic systems. why would odium want to give humans something akin to oil today? he would just have to withold the storms, and goodbye soulcasting! you'll have to learn to make a supply line the old way. goodbye kaladin the windrunner, welcome kaladin the common spearmen! I don't think roshar's society would be able to work without stormlight. not to mention crem, another thing left from storms that is used as fertilizer or as construction material. Again, the example is oil today. yes, tecnically everything we do with oil we could do with something else, but we would not be able to keep up the same mass production, and anyway we are not equipped to do it without oil because it was always easier to use oil in the first place. So if odiium is sending the storms and the stormlight is a byproduct of that, he should stop the storms to throw the world into chaos. the world is so adapted to them that they don't do much damage anyway.

Also, an unrelated question: where do crem come from? I also assumed it was the soil, swept away by the storms and redeposited elsewhere by those same storms, but it don't work that way. With time, all the soil and nutritious substances should fall into the ocean, and never be recovered. when the storm hit aletkar, it has only blown on ocean, but it is still full of crem. that crem cannnot come from some other land. where does it come from?

[dionysus]

"And Honor? Honor is dead, splintered apart. We see remnants of him in a forgotten magic system (windrunning, soulcasting, and possibly Memory) and ancient powerful artifacts (shards). We see his Nahel bond present with Syl, and we see his last words echoing through time to Dalinar. "

I find it interesting to contemplate what the splintering of Honor means. My default assumption is that Honor's intent is still active in Roshar, it is just not guided by intelligence. So people still have a predisposition to act Honorably, especially if they are of a race created by the shard Honor, the magic systems still function well, culture's will tend to be Honorable (it just may be outweighed by Odium/Cultivation), etc.

Basically, assuming a intact and held Cultivation, Odium and Cultivation have no more power in the world than Honor, they will just be more effective at achieving their individual intents because they are intelligent.

Edited October 29, 2012 by dionysus

[FlashWrogan]

most of it is likely.

the only thing I don't find convincing is stormlight being of odium and being necessary to power other magic systems. why would odium want to give humans something akin to oil today? he would just have to withold the storms, and goodbye soulcasting! you'll have to learn to make a supply line the old way. goodbye kaladin the windrunner, welcome kaladin the common spearmen! I don't think roshar's society would be able to work without stormlight. not to mention crem, another thing left from storms that is used as fertilizer or as construction material. Again, the example is oil today. yes, tecnically everything we do with oil we could do with something else, but we would not be able to keep up the same mass production, and anyway we are not equipped to do it without oil because it was always easier to use oil in the first place. So if odiium is sending the storms and the stormlight is a byproduct of that, he should stop the storms to throw the world into chaos. the world is so adapted to them that they don't do much damage anyway.

Also, an unrelated question: where do crem come from? I also assumed it was the soil, swept away by the storms and redeposited elsewhere by those same storms, but it don't work that way. With time, all the soil and nutritious substances should fall into the ocean, and never be recovered. when the storm hit aletkar, it has only blown on ocean, but it is still full of crem. that crem cannnot come from some other land. where does it come from?

Why doesn't he deprive mankind of a fuel source and throw them into chaos? Because chaos is not his intent. He wants discord, hate, and conflict. What better way to do that than to provide an easy way to wage war. If he stopped providing Stormlight, fighting wars would become untenable in Roshar's economy. Nations would retreat and regroup, focus on refitting themselves to function without soulcasters and other fabrials. By providing a source of power, he provides a source of conflict. There is another aspect to consider as well. Odium may be locked in to creating this highstorms in some way that we cannot yet guess. Though there are weaknesses in the comparison, the mists of Preservation come to mind. They were of and from Preservation, yet he was unable to prevent Ruin from using them towards his ends. I realize the reasons for this are not applicable to Roshar, but it shows that such things can happen, so it could be happening for a different reason.

As to your crem question, I imagine there is something quite interesting at the source of storms that might answer it. In addition, water of the highstorms scoring at the rock of the land could possibly erode some of that away and carry it with the storm.

I find it interesting to contemplate what the splintering of Honor means. My default assumption is that Honor's intent is still active in Roshar, it is just not guided by intelligence. So people still have a predisposition to act Honorably, especially if they are of a race created by the shard Honor, the magic systems still function well, culture's will tend to be Honorable (it just may be outweighed by Odium/Cultivation), etc.

Basically, assuming a intact and held Cultivation, Odium and Cultivation have no more power in the world than Honor, they will just be more effective at achieving their individual intents because they are intelligent.

I imagine this by thinking of Scadrial: (HoA spoilers)

When Laris died in book three, except the other shards that are present aren't actively trying to destroy the world. Things that preservation had put into place, such as the mists, the well, and his greater spark in humanity, were not affected. It is only his unvested power that was opposing Ruin that was suddenly unoccupied

I would say that it perhaps comes down to how much of his power he had invested in things before he was splintered. Though we also don't have a good picture at this point of what happens to a shard's unoccupied power when it is splintered. Essentially, I agree with you