Jess

My thoughts exactly. If I were to guess at a mist analogue for Roshar, it would be stormlight, not glass beads. But what if it has more to do with the material (glass) than the shape (beads/spheres)? Actually, where does glass on Roshar even come from? It's not obviously not that rare, but doing a ctrl+f through WoK and WoR reveals that there are actually not that many casual references to glass objects. And there is this interesting quote in chapter 23 of WoK: So while glass isn't super valuable on Roshar, it still seems to be more scarce than we might expect. I suspect that most glass on modern Roshar is soulcast (since "quartz, glass, crystal" is one of the ten essences), but in the past there may not have been as much (or any?) access to soulcasting. After doing some googling it seems that the first glass production on earth used ground up quartz pebbles. I suspect such a thing might be relatively hard to find on Roshar, with most of the continent's surface being bare rock. Furthermore, amethyst, which is one of the polestones, is a type of quartz. And last but not least, wikipedia's History of Glass article states that the earliest known glass objects were beads. So, what if there was a time in Roshar's history where glass was much more rare, made out of naturally occuring quartz, and always shaped into beads? Could it be possible that this glass/crystal was able to hold stormlight, unlike the probably-soulcast glass of modern Roshar? In that case, Shadesmar being full of glass beads would be a holdover of an earlier method of harnessing stormlight... Edit: Just as the mist could (under the right circumstances) be used as a blank-slate allomancy fuel, able to stand in for any of the metals, perhaps this hypothetical stormlight-holding-glass could have taken on the properties of any of the ten polestones. Edit 2: Here's something interesting, from WoR chapter 7 when Shallan is on the ship... Bolding mine. The beads are also described as "dark" in WoK chapters 45 and 70. So they definitely aren't the same type of glass that is used in spheres, and they also don't match the description of the crystal ("a figure of pure, flawless quartz") that Jasnah soulcast one of the thugs into in WoK chapter 36. Thus it's entirely plausible that they could be some substance capable of holding stormlight which modern Rosharans don't know about.

Is this the passage you are thinking of? In any case, I think this quote supports the idea that Iyatil did not grow up on Scadrial. Her mask definitely doesn't match that definition, so if she is a Hunter, perhaps she had to craft her mask on a different planet. Except the WoB quoted upthread specifically says that Iyatil's people did not have a mass exodus. Also props to Calthrop for realizing that just because Shallan thinks Iyatil's mask is carapace doesn't mean it is actually carapace.

I'm surprised nobody has posited Taravangian for novelette 2.

This is a GREAT idea and now I hope it happens. I think for this to happen there would have to be some big reveal where it turns out the Set/Trellists have much more sympathetic motives than it has seemed so far. Even with a rift developing between her and the other main characters, I think their callousness and apparent lust for power would repel her far more than their big-picture planning would attract her. Edit: That said, I could see her deciding that whatever Wax is up to in TLM is not the right way to do things, that he's going too far or something, making more trouble than he's solving, and thus being an antagonist that way.

This seems to imply that she may not have actually spent all that much time on Scadrial; i.e., her people are from Scadrial (and yes, probably the Hunters) but she herself is from somewhere else (grew up on a different planet? born on a different planet?) so she could very well be using a non-Scadrial magic system. I think there is definitely something supernatural about her stealth capabilities though, nice catch on that.

Time for some good ol' fashioned character arc discussion. I. Marasi the Visionary Of all of Era 2's main good guys (Wax, Wayne, Marasi, Steris, MeLaan), Marasi is the most forward-looking, most likely to see the big picture and think long-term, most accepting (or even desirous) of change. This is especially apparent when comparing her with her one-time idol, Wax, which she conveniently does for us herself: Wax himself reflects on multiple occasions that he feels old-fashioned, a relic. In fact, in one of these reflections, he also compares himself and Marasi: Even though Wax doesn't fully buy Marasi's idea, I think on some level he knows that his favorite way of improving the world, hunting down criminals one by one and administering justice with his own hand, is increasingly ineffective in modern Scadrial. I consider it his central character conflict, more important even than his grief over Lessie (both times). Tillaume, despite his eventual betrayal, had a good point when he tried to impress upon Wax the true importance of his duties as House Lord. Wax admits as much to himself later when praying, and even recognizes his own tendency to underestimate how important these things are: As of Bands, not much has changed. Wax still has a need to be personally involved. It even leads to a short argument in New Seran when Marasi recognizes that Wax's obsession with Suit is at least partly due to pride, and calls him on his pettiness. I wouldn't go so far as to say Wax enjoys violence itself, but on some level he exults in the challenge, the hunt, the face-to-face confrontation. In this, Marasi is Wax's opposite. She has no problem improving the world through impersonal, abstract means; in fact, she prefers it, because it is more effective, even if it is not as flashy and obviously heroic as Wax's approach. This is evident from when she explained "broken windows theory" to Wax in Alloy, and even moreso from her thoughts when she does get personally involved: Wax's tendency to focus on dramatic outliers is also demonstrated by his attitude toward the Village. When he realizes that even a seemingly idyllic community cannot completely prevent violent crime, it causes him to question everything about that community: Had Marasi been in his place, she probably would have focused on how to apply the principles of the Village to the rest of Elendel, using the big picture to effect change for the better. This is also apparent when she comes up with the idea to interview Kandra so as to learn from history. She is also frequently the questioner of conventional wisdom, such as in Alloy when she points out that Elendel is actually more dangerous, statistically, than the Roughs, or when she informs characters (Wax included) that rough interrogation is actually very ineffective. In Shadows, she's the one who gets Aradel to see that acting against Governer Innate is justified. Interestingly, Marasi's visonary mindset is something she has in common with the Set—not that she'd ever condone their means of advancing society, or even agree with their definition of societal progress. Still, of the main five, she's the most likely to agree that sometimes greater societal good requires unpleasant things. The first quote in this post, where she thinks about creating a world where law enforcement wouldn't be needed, comes right on the heels of her considering that without the death of innocents, there would be no kandra, and that the Lord Ruler, despite his tyranny, was also (she thinks) responsible for saving all the southern Scadrians. Last but not least, she is the one to connect the dots between Paalm's mystery spike and Trell, and take it upon herself to find out as much as possible about Trell. Honestly, part of me considers Marasi's big-picture style of thinking so self-evident that I needn't have made such a case for it. But I don't think I've seen in brought up before, and it's not under the "Personality" section of her coppermind article, so there you go. II. To Be Underestimated I have adored Steris since her first appearance, and Bands has brought the fandom's appreciation of her to an all-time high. Thus it is ironic that for the first time in the series, I find Marasi's position in the story more compelling that Steris's. Though I suspect many will disagree, I would say that right now, Marasi is the most underestimated of the main five (both by readers and the other characters). This is not to say the other character's don't value her; of course they do. Steris even rates her usefulness above Wayne's. Wayne himself readily admits that Marasi's straightforward method of acquiring the bank records in New Seran was a good idea. And Wax, of course, not only values her detective skills and marksmanship, he personally helps her find ways to use her Pulser ability (notably, he is the one who first realizes the potential of combining it with the "allomantic grenade"). But none of these things, not even her allomancy, are really Marasi's biggest asset. They are her skills; they are not her. They are not what makes her tick. What really defines Marasi is everything I mentioned in section one. She wants to change the world at the roots, and not with flashy, glamorous heroics, but with ideas—ideas that seem pretty dry to most people despite being practical—or maybe even because they are so practical. This is her true passion, and it is the aspect of her that her closest companions value the least. III. Dreams So what does Marasi want, and where does she go from here? Of all the main characters, Marasi got the most ambiguous ending in Bands. Wax came to understand Harmony's role in Lessie's death, and is now happily married to Steris. Steris herself really came into her own in finding ways to user her skillset on these crazy adventures. Wayne moved on from Ranette, got over his gun complex at least a little bit, and has a budding relationship with MeLaan. And Marasi? Well, she spent the entire book seemingly annoyed by or unable to relate to her companions, and the final scene showed her back where Shadows left off, doing solo research on Trell, determined, but still feeling very in the dark. This quote comes from a passage where Marasi is reflecting on how thrilling it is to be a constable. These are the childhood dreams that I believe the opening quote of this section are referring to. I'm not sure if Marasi will leave the constabulary for something else; it's possible, but since she's not actually a field constable and her current position gives her plenty of access to data she can analyze for trends, it's at least equally possible that she simply means she will avoid running around with Wax and focus on office work. It's pretty much a guarantee that Wax, Wayne, and Steris will be gallivanting off on some adventure in The Lost Metal, but I think this time Marasi might not go with them, or might do so only reluctantly, after being persuaded or given an exceptional reason. I fully expect her research on Trell to be crucial, but I think she will probably serve a bigger role than that. Unfortunately, the above quote, the most definitive thought she has about her future plans, leaves open the possibility of just about anything. The most likely thing I can come up with right now is that she might be dealing heavily with the southern Scadrians, an ambassador of sorts. This is mainly based on her rapport with Allik, her fascination with other societies, and her tendency to see the big picture. But ultimately, this is just a tentative hunch. In any case, Marasi was important enough to come up in Harmony's conversation with Wax: I highly doubt that refers to her job as a constable, or even briefly weilding the Bands. I think something enormous is in store for Marasi in The Lost Metal, and right now that's the part of the book I am most looking forward to.

TLR modified the north Scadrians to be able to survive ashfall, and to be able to subsist on the less-nutritious brown plants (and yes, Sazed reversed these changes), but WoB I quoted explicitly states that TLR never geneticaly modified the south Scadrians in the first place. I think there was probably more to it than that. For one thing, a thousand years doesn't seem nearly long enough for that kind of evolution/adaptation. For another, if that was the case, what would stop them from getting used to the mild colder temperatures the same way? And last but not least, the WoB I quoted makes it sounds like TLR actively did something that let them survive. Built underground shelters for them maybe? That could have even been the inspiration for the shelters he built in the Final Empire. But somehow I suspect the answer is not that simple.

I am curious as to why. Mind elaborating?

The epilogue specifically mentions that the southerners "had frozen in what most men would consider only mildly cold weather." There was also no mention of snow or ice there. So I don't think the south pole is actually frozen like our poles. I suspect TLR may have genetically altered the southerners to be accustomed to blazing heat. Nope, see edit! I know there's a WoB about how TLR viewed the southerners as kind of a "back-up plan" or something but I can't find it and check exactly what it said because something seems to be wrong with the interview database... EDIT: managed to use google cache to find the WoB I was thinking of: So it's not genetics but it still sounds to me like they lived in extremely hot temperatures during the millenium of the Final Empire.

I've loved her from her first appearance and I'm glad everyone else is finally catching up

7. I think the issue isn't that the spikes are nontransferable (in fact, we know this to be false because of when TenSoon took OreSeur's blessing) but that one blessing = one pair of spikes. So it's not that the spikes are paired to the kandra, it's that they are paired to each other. Having one half each of two separate blessings could indeed be a novel situation. 8. This seems totally in keeping with the established abilities of the Kandra to me. In HoA TenSoon lost a substantial portion of his flesh to acid and was fine ("He tried to walk with pride and confidence, but he knew this body wouldn't look very intimidating. It was emaciated--he'd lost much mass during his imprisonment and more to the acid, and he hadn't been able to form very large muscles." -Ch. 7). That said, a lot of the other points are indeed VERY suspicious. As far as I'm concerned there's basically 0% chance that everything VenDell said is true, whether through ignorance or deception or (most likely) a little bit of both. P.S.: VenDell was actually mentioned by MeLaan in SoS: "Look, I'm just here to help. If you want someone to fawn over, I'll send VenDell or one of the really ancient ones to you. They like it." -Ch. 13 (Pg. 218 in the US Hardcover).

Does anybody else think this sounds suspiciously like emotional allomancy?

The thing is, if she was really 100% against faking her death, there was nothing stopping her from going "Hey Wax, I'm not actually dead" right after he killed Tan. Sure, it would have been difficult to explain, but it WAS an option. So it seems to me that there are only two possibilities: 1. TenSoon was wrong or lying and Harmony did actually take control of her. 2. Even if she wasn't totally on board with faking her death, she still voluntarily picked that over telling Wax she'd been a kandra all along. I still have no idea what was up with Tan, and it's possible that Trell or someone else had a hand in her "death". But if Paalm had wanted to totally screw up the ruse and not die, Harmony was the only one with the power to stop her. Objections like this don't really work when the entity making the plan has superhuman foresight. I think it's within Harmony's capability to know that circumstances would unfold so as to push Wax back to being a lawman.

But it's possible that it was the combination of the bullet spike and a second "mundane" spike that allowed Harmony to see her, and neither one would have sufficed in combination with the mystery spike only. At first I also thought Bleeder only had the mystery-metal spike in her... but I've started to question that, because of this WoB: If Harmony knows the process of giving allomancy to a kandra, then whatever spikes she was using for her feruchemical and allomantic steel were probably NOT the mystery metal. So it seems to me that she probably had one mundane spike giving her a metallic art, then the mystery spike hiding her from Harmony (and possibly allowing her to send her thoughts to Wax), and finally the bullet spike which actually allowed Harmony to control her by bringing her mundane spike total to two. That said, I suppose it's possible that she could have figured out a way to use the mystery spike to grant metallic arts, similar to how atium can steal any attribute. And... This makes a lot of sense too, and Marasi's explanation of her removing both spikes and replacing them with just the mystery spike was pretty clear.

Yes, exactly. I have this half-formed idea that perhaps Sazed won't always be considered Harmony. It seems that the combination of Ruin+Preservation could just as easily be discordant and conflicted as harmonious and balanced. It's all down to how you look at it... hence question #2. A good point, though I don't think that would be enough to fulfill "His name shall be Discord" (if that even is a real part of the prophecy), especially since the capitalization isn't mine, it's in the text.

If I ever get a chance to go to a signing, this is what I'd ask, but since I don't think that will happen any time soon, might as well put them on the list: 1. In one of the Mistborn epigraphs, Alendi quotes the Terris Prophecies as saying "His name shall be Discord", presumably referring to the Hero of Ages. Was this part of the prophecy affected by Ruin's alterations? 2. The cognitive aspect of an object is how it is viewed and how it views itself. Could the Intent of a shard be changed if enough people started viewing it differently?

I'm not sure if I think it's Odium or Autonomy; it could really go either way. BUT if it is Odium, I would guess his ultimate goal is to remove Harmony as a threat, killing Sazed and splintering the shard, which kind of fits with how Bleeder hated Harmony and wanted to get rid of his eyes/ears/hands etc.

I don't really buy Lessie orchestrating her own "death" (although if someone came up with a motivation for it, I might change my mind), I did wonder while I was reading the end of SoS why she didn't just reveal to Wax immediately after he killed Tan that she was a kandra and not dead. Sure, it would have been a giant shock to him that the woman he loved wasn't really human, but I don't think he would have just left her over it. Since Harmony controlling her directly is ruled out, and I don't think she had started going insane yet at that point, the only thing I can come up with is that she was still devoted enough to Harmony to go through with his plan despite major reservations. Tangentially, I think if she had been less mysterious with Wax during SoS, she may have actually succeeded in her plans. I spent the whole hour after finishing thinking "Why didn't Bleeder just TELL HIM who she was?" I guess that can be chalked up to insanity... but then again the book itself notes that while her goals were insane, her methods were really well planned, so I dunno.

I just enjoy overanalyzing books a LOT. Jasadin is a pretty fascinating ship too (nobody said all the ships I enjoy have to work together, haha). Sorry, the vast majority of my post was written before you asked people to drop it; I'm just slow to post because I revise everything I say multiple times. I also will drop it now.

It's probably possible to argue ad nauseam about what exactly constitutes a "broken person," which is one reason why I prefer treating each character as an individual case instead of basing opinions on such broad categories in the first place. After all, Shallan and Kaladin's respective "brokenness" isn't actually that similar. Different causes, different ways of dealing with it, different impacts on their personality, etc. I don't think Shallan's deep denial was a 100% negative thing: for her it was probably a necessary step in the healing process because it was the only way she could retain a semblance of functioning while she was still powerless in her father's household. Now that she has escaped that and come into her own it is definitely time to leave the denial behind, and we saw the first steps of that at the end of WoR. I think Kaladin is actually a lot further along in dealing with his demons. He regressed during the middle of WoR, but if your definition of broken person is someone who can't deal with their issues at all, well... does that actually apply to Kaladin anymore? He is dealing with his issues, slowly but surely. I personally think he will be mentally/emotionally healthier (not perfect obviously, but improved) in book three, mostly because we just had a "two steps forward, one step back" arc with him and it would be boring to repeat that. But, in some ways, contrasting Shallan and Kaladin's respective brokenness actually seems like a tangent to me, because I see their relationship potential as mostly unrelated to that. There's absolutely no reason for a Shallan/Kaladin relationship to revolve around healing their emotional wounds. Even if the three arcs (Shallan deals with her demons, Kaladin deals with his demons, Shallan and Kaladin have a blossoming romance) did happen simultaneously, they can still be separate, independent events. I do agree that Shallan/Kaladin is not the only alternative to Shallan/Adolin. I also agree that Shallan and Kaladin as close friends instead of a couple is a strong possibility. Last but not least I have NO idea how Tarah fits into this. I actually voted for "Unknown" in the poll because of these kind of things. As much as a Shallan/Kaladin relationship appeals to me, I'm not at all confident that it will end up that way at the end of the series. But on my list of potential reasons why Shallan/Kaladin might not work out, "they are both too broken" is somewhere at the very bottom. Strongly disagree. There are plenty of polyamorous men in real life who "share women." Do you really think none of them have any self-respect? So many people see learned, cultural gender differences and claim that they have to be fundamental, biological ones. It's a kind of "cultural egocentrism" where people assume their own culture's idea of "X is how men are and Y is how women are" is Clearly Natural and Universal because they are just completely unaware of hard counterexamples from other cultures. There is some room for debate... obviously nobody can know for sure exactly what is cultural and what is biological. But then again, you are the one making the "This is definitely, 100% for sure a fundamental gender difference" statement. Social and biological origins of gender differences is a hugely complex topic. There are so many unanswered questions. People from many different academic fields can spend their entire lives investigating this. If you were really approaching this in a logical manner, you'd say something like "Well I think the evidence leans this way, but there are many researchers who disagree, so the matter is not settled." tl;dr: You are so sure that you know better than literally thousands of anthropologists, biologists, sociologists, historians, etc? Come on now... There is an argument to be made that Alethi culture would view two guys sharing a girl as lacking self-respect. And I would also say that it won't happen because it's simply not Brandon's style. But those are different arguments than the one you made... Edited to be a little less harsh/verbose.

I don't think there necessarily has to be a shardpool on every mountain. It's possible that neither Rock nor Sigzil are 100% correct, and one of the lakes has a shardpool at the bottom whereas the rest are just hot springs. But... there's definitely something odd about the description of the Horneater peaks nonetheless. Each mountain has a crater at the top?! That can't be natural, even if it's not actually all of them but only a lot of them. The effect of the hot springs on the land around them also sounds supernatural. Definitely agree that Lunu'anaki is Hoid. That was pretty obvious even on my first readthrough, but the fact that he actually has a name in Horneater mythology makes me wonder just how many times he's worldhopped to Roshar. The references to seeing the place of the gods are almost certainly about getting a glimpse of Shadesmar, though you'd probably have to have some special ability to use the pool(s) to actually get there, as opposed to just peeking in.

It's far too early to make a serious prediction, I think. However, I'm pretty surprised at the prevalence of knee-jerk "No love triangles!" reactions in this thread. I'm not fond of typical soap-opera-esque love triangles myself, but I fully believe that Sanderson is a much better writer than that, so I'm not worried about it. As others have noted, it is entirely possible for Shallan to move from her relationship with Adolin to one with Kaladin without actually having a love triangle. And honestly, even if there is some character conflict over it, I think Sanderson is perfectly capable of writing it well. Specifically, the concern that it would become a plot tumor where we have to endure the characters whining about their relationship issues all the time seems completely unfounded. All three of have much more important things to worry about right now, and all three of them seem capable of focusing on the apocalypse at hand instead of their interpersonal drama. Sure, they'd probably think about it from time to time, but it would be very out of character for Shallan or Kaladin to obsess about to the point where it became a major part of their arc. I guess I could see Adolin angsting a bit more than the other two, but still not to the point where it would get in the way of the rest of the story. But the biggest reason why I am not worried about a romantic plot-tumor: Kaladin and Shallan's interactions were actually a pretty small part of WoR. Kaladin noticed Shallan walking around the bottom of the chasm on page 818, and they fell asleep in their improvised shelter on page 880. Subtracting the Teft POV and Shallan flashback leaves about 45 pages of Kaladin and Shallan in the chasms, and a substantial portion of that was action sequences. Prior to that, they had only brief interactions; afterward, there were a couple of paragraphs where they were thinking about each other. And it looks like Kaladin and Shallan will be in completely different parts of the world at the beginning of the next book. And yet, their interaction was some of the most memorable and compelling writing in WoR. I'd argue that this is partially because it didn't take up much page-time, not in spite of it. The seed of their potential relationship is being developed with a pretty light touch, all things considered, which is a great sign for the quality of future developments. Those short paragraphs where Shallan was trying to define what exactly drew her to Kaladin packed more emotional punch than all the times she thought about Adolin (his looks, and how to best keep him interested in her) put together. The brief passage where Kaladin was lamenting that Shallan was already with Adolin bespoke deeper attachment than all of Adolin's fascination with a woman he doesn't actually know that well. tl;dr: Shallan and Kaladin's interactions were far more moving—while simultaneously taking less screentime—than Shallan and Adolin's. This is the opposite of a plot-tumor. You know, I would have agreed with this right up until I read the chasm scene, which exceeded my wildest expectations and assuaged all the skepticism I'd had about the idea. The sheer chemistry, how real and genuine it felt, trumped my more meta concerns about "ugh, the female and male lead always become a couple." But that's obviously subjective. Although, I don't really get your Mistborn comparison because... I honestly hate this argument, especially the statement that I bolded. It sounds like you are saying that if two people who both have trauma in their past fall in love, then there is no hope for their relationship. What a massive generalization! Shallan and Kaladin aren't predestined to fail as a couple just because they both fall under the abstract concept "broken people." Broken people are still individuals—they might be compatible, or they might not. You do the characters a huge disservice when you write it off as "well it will never work because they are both too broken." It's like you are talking about an archetype: Broken Person A + Broken Person B = bad relationship, no exceptions. But Shallan and Kaladin aren't just Broken Person A and Broken Person B. There is so much more to them; they have a unique dynamic (just as any two well-realized characters would) which can't be reduced to "they're both broken." It's also telling when you say that they "need" someone to set an example, help them heal, show them how to outgrow pain, etc. Now that is an unhealthy relationship dynamic, one person fixing another. I don't think Shallan and Kaladin "need" each other or anyone else. I just think they have promising chemistry. There are some significant hurdles in the way of a healthy Shallan/Kaladin relationship (he killed her brother, their spren hate eachother, Kaladin is loyal to Adolin), no doubt about it. But imo neither "ew love triangles" nor "they are both too broken" are very good objections.

I think you are misunderstanding the connotation of monstrosity. To me it conveys a lot more than just size; it is a decidedly negative descriptor. Also, the behavior of the blades is different; Dalinar hears screams when he summons it but Kaladin does not hear screams when he touches Jezrien's Blade. Ah yes, possibility 3: That's not Taln's Honorblade. Oh dear, I actually did look around but I guess I somehow missed that thread. Thanks!

Hey everyone, long-time lurker, first-time poster, just finished WoR last night, etc etc... It seems odd to me that Stormfather told Dalinar to discard Taln's Honorblade. After all, Honorblades are not dead spren like regular shardblades, and Syl actually wanted Kaladin to retrieve Jezrien's Honorblade. It could have something to do with Taln's Honorblade, presumably granting Stonewarden abilities, not matching Dalinar's Order, but IMO that doesn't fully explain why Stormfather would call the blade a "monstrosity." Two main possibilities I see: 1. Something about Taln's blade makes it different from the other's (or, at least different from Jezrien's). 2. Stormfather knows something about the Honorblades that Syl doesn't.