GroundPetrel

I actually liked the Apollo books, they felt like Riordan was being bold and adventurous a lot more. (They were also darker than the previous books, but in a genuinely mature kind of way rather than an edgy way. I think I like books that grow with their audience like that) With the Norse ones, I think a big problem was Riordan needed to find a semi-unique way to play with the myths and deconstruct them a bit, and it was hard to do that with the Marvel pop-culture osmosis dominating everybody's consciousness. Having a lot of protagonists for a trilogy doesn't really help, either. (I still have a huge soft spot for the Egyptian ones, even though 1 and 3 are a little clunky, because 2 is just so damn good and the climax is perfectly set up, paced, and written. His best book is probably The Son of Neptune, though. Both because of the return to form and because it pairs off Percy being insanely badass with Frank and Hazel growing into their own awesomeness really well)

He spent most of his formative years being thrust into a semi-parental role for his special-needs brother because his dad was a broken alcoholic whose psyche was shattered by decades of badly handled PTSD. What we see as readers is the result of that experience, we don't see the fumbles he made along the way. And frankly, even if he is a rare kind of person, I still love the guy, because I love characters who are just plain good. And Adolin, the polar opposite of Amaram, the supportive guy who's just plain nice because he can do that, the guy who won't discard Maya as a case of Too Bad, So Sad, Nothing To Be Done, the flaming bisexual dandy with a keen eye for others, the guy who knows how to be supportive rather than just protective and who cares so little for stupid Alethi propriety that he'll throw himself in prison to protest some darkeyed spearman's unjust imprisonment after that guy ruined a plan Adolin nearly died for, but who also will take his father's disdain for his passions with minimal complaint for years before finally openly chafing in the middle of a literal apocalypse when Dalinar decided to add "Son, why don't you get rid of that deadeye, what a sad case, but there's nothing to be done, just get rid of it and we'll get you a shiny new spren who'll give you cool powers and stuff!" and "I think you might be turning into the psychopath I was when I was younger because you stabbed a sociopathic asshole who, after years of actively trying to provoke you and deliberately trying to get you and me killed AND being inhumanly cruel to poor nobodies even by Alethi standards, told you to your face that he was going to keep on being a backstabbing asshole until you, me, and everybody you love is dead and the world is doomed" to his judgemental lecturing... Look, I just storming love Adolin. I love characters who are introduced to us as good, remain good, and whose flaws and foibles are reasonable things they can work through with some help--if they ever get it. In a cast where the other mains include a domestic abuse survivor who killed her parents and has DID, a guy who went through so much torment he literally nearly committed suicide twice and frankly should be a twitching wreck huddled in the corner of a dark room at this point, and a mass-murderer who had to have brain surgery to become a decent person, it's really nice to have one guy who is just a pretty good dude, has been since he was a kid, and is there when the traumatized hot messes need a hug.

Kalak and Ishar are dead meat IMO. Not sure who else. I'm not seeing Kaladin or Dalinar dying, at least not before swearing 5th Ideal. And Dalinar has a lot of growth to do before making that level.

I thought the scene where he tells Kaladin "no I will not abandon Maya, I am not changing my mind" was going to be the best. Then everything in Shadesmar happened!

Alright, I keep derailing threads with my obsessive love for Adolin "living therapy blanket" Kholin, so I think it's high time there was a thread purely dedicated to Adolin and how awesome he is. I'll start this off by saying that as somebody with numerous emotional, developmental, and neurological issues, Adolin's supportiveness towards Renarin is heartwarming in the extreme. Also the scene where Kaladin said "hey dude we really need radiants and you would rock as one, why not give up your deadeye sword?" and Adolin got super grumpy and protective and was like "NO I will not abandon Maya and that's final!", brought tears to my eyes.

Well yes. That's just logic. I nearly got pancaked in NYC once because I was reading Words of Radiance and didn't notice that a light changed as I started walking across the street. In my defense, Kaladin was dueling the Assassin in White with a spear and just enough Stormlight to be a badass without glowing, so I was low-key distracted.

Sebarial is a good choice and you should feel good. I storming lost it in WOR when the Everstorm was going and all hope was nearly lost and Sebarial was like "Oh, Da-linar! I just so happened to see your army and some dessert blowing past, I couldn't let such delights go to waste!" and Palona is just reading a novel in the middle of the apocalypse without a care in the world. Damn but there are so many great side characters in these books, I can't pick a favorite XD

Kal is explicitly stated to feel like crap during the Weeping, which is a slow gloomy time of clouds and boring miserable drizzle. That sounds a lot like SAD to me. If we could clone Adolin a hundred times we just might have enough of him for all of our Radiants to be in functional shape all of the time. XD

I think it's less about introversion and extroversion and more that Kal has been clinically depressed for a while, has buckets of PTSD, and likely has had SAD from a very young age. He seems to really bloom around friends, and seems to get moodier the more isolated he is. But with all those traumatic experiences and underlying issues, he's going to find it harder to initiate social contact on a friendly level than even the other Bridge Four guys do. Which is of course why he needs an Adolin Kholin in his life, but then again we all need an Adolin to hug us, take us out for drinks that turn into an impromptu attempt to get us laid, and go completely, ridiculously, unnecessarily over the top in our defense when somebody wrongs us. Or in other words, I fully expect Shallan to recover much faster than Kaladin because she has more Adolin in her life and he is good for her.

Adolin won Maya in a duel, against another nobleman (Tinalar or Tanalan, I think), when he was still pretty young. Adolin also shows a lot of Edgedancer traits: "Yeah, I know I'm in another highprince's warcamp and starting a fight would likely cause a civil war AND I'm supposed to be heading to a super important meeting but some random prostitute is being beaten up so I'm going to threaten to Shardblade the guy beating her up and then blow off the meeting to get her home." "I know this dumbass darkeyes who I've been clashing with for months and who I KNOW lied to my father's face and is hiding something just destroyed the plan we spent months on and I nearly died for, destabilizing the kingdom in the process, but his imprisonment is clearly unjust so I'm going to prison in protest!" "My sword is actually a person who has been horribly maimed and probably hates me for using her to slaughter? Oh crap, that's storming awful. I'd better try to make amends by taking care of her while we're running for our lives from Odium's minions." "Oh storms, oh storms, this 50-foot rock monster is going to pulp me and I have no Plate, I already nearly died once today, I'm going to die I've got to move keep moving don't stop--storms I think I might've heard a kid back there, gotta go back right now!" "OK, this mission is probably a bust, I'm going to bet it all on something that would definitely give my dad a heart attack--Hey, you prissy jerks! You want to put somebody on trial? Put me on trial!" "LISTEN TO MAYA, YOU JERKOFFS! STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO HER MOUTH AND LET HER TALK!" His biggest dramatic moments are all Edgedancer. Taking care of the little guy at great personal risk (prostitute, kid in Thaylenah--if Adolin had actually started a fight in Sadeas's warcamp, he would have been punished, severely, to prevent a civil war); emphasis on listening to the forgotten/little people (Kaladin, Maya, arguably his helping Shallan is this because he's asking for Shallan Davar, not her badass alter egos), healing others (everything he does with Maya is about trying to help her heal through supportive long-term care). His ethos also seems less about duty and dependability and more about "somebody should do good, good needs to be done, I am badass, I should do it because I am capable and it might as well be me", the kind of opportunistic doing of good that seems to be the Edgedancers' purview. I will admit that he shows some traits that smell more of Releaser or Stoneward--but at the same time, you see Kaladin, the Windrunner's Windrunner, doing surgery, protesting societal injustice, and in his darkest moments falling more towards Nale's corrupted Skybreakers in some ways (Syl even points this out). I think people can go in fitting several Radiant orders at once, but as they progress they learn to fit closer to the Ideal of the order that fits them best.

Adolin because he'd be healthy for me to be friends with. Pretty much all of them tbh. Lift I think, she's awesome. As of now, TaravOdium. Lift. The Lopen and Nightblood as honorable mentions. Hoid, but mostly to lure him into a fight with the theoretical future Rainbow Pirate Mistborn Kelsier I have gleefully speculated about. Kaladin for depression, Shallan for identity confusion and art, Navani for impostor syndrome, Renarin for neurological issues, Adolin for general insecurity. Pretty much all of them except maybe Szeth. None, though I ship Adolin/Shallan/Kaladin and Navani/Dalinar (Navani/Dalinar is OTP and I won't hear otherwise). Um...Shallan maybe?

OK, that would be super cool! Honestly Adolin and Lift share a lot despite their wildly differnt backgrounds, having them work together to learn stuff would be awesome. Especially with her figuring stuff out first and then teaching him to be awesome like her.

Stuff I really liked: The Pursuer is exactly the kind of physically powerful but Stupid Evil villain needed to show the good guys having to be smart to win while physically outmatched. I actually really liked what a total failure elemental he was. Adolin continues to be a fantastic character. Laughed like a hyena when he was trying to be Kal's wingman and when he pointed out all the young noble ladies who desperately wanted Doctor Highmarshal Stormblessed to look at their oh-so-mysteriously-sore wrists or whatever. Legit cried at the big scene with him and Maya at the trial. My heart broke for Maya like 20 times. Honestly I care more about her and Adolin than I do about Kaladin now. Leshwi and Raboniel are very interesting. Raboniel's motivations are excellent and I like how this doesn't make her less of a danger or a monster. Dalinar parallels maybe, where she has spent so long as the bad guy that she can no longer really come back and knows it? Leshwi in general is fascinating though I'm still not sure how I feel about a Fused who's probably becoming a protagonist. TaravOdium is brilliant. I like the foreshadowing that Rayse was breaking under the strain and starting to really make huge mistakes, too. Kelsier is leading the Ghostbloods and trying to get ALL the investiture so that he can become the rainbow pirate Mistborn version of Hoid? I am down with this. I am especially down with Kelsier in a rainbow outfit with a bird on his shoulder and an eyepatch kicking butt. That image is inherently entertaining. I like that the characters' flaws continue to be explored, especially Dalinar's. Even though he's trying he's still a mediocre father and a conservative leader. Stuff I was uncertain of: Moash. Effective as a story element/plot device but I'm not sure his characterization is suuuuper consistent? He had some red flags from pretty early on as a self-interested revengeaholic, but I think I liked him more as a mirror of Kaladin's dark side rather than a literally irredeemable asshole like we see here. I want to see more on Navani and the Sibling's bond because I really don't want Navani to give up her passions for the military necessity of the Sibling bond. Lirin. I get what he's supposed to be but he comes off to me as a weak man and more narrow-minded than Dalinar or Kaladin, which is extremely frustrating. I still don't connect with Jasnah well but I think that's because I haven't seen much of her POV. Stuff I didn't like: Pacing on some of Shallan's stuff was a bit slow. It took me a bit to get used to the entry and rush of names and exposition. I think I'd have liked to see more of the interim year of war.

To be fair that was in an attempt to save the world, and he didn't exactly have many options.

What if he didn't get Feruchemy and instead used Investiture tech developed by the Southern Scadrians to make the Bands? It's been a while since I read Bands of Mourning, was there specific textual evidence that he has it personally?

If he only has one spike, how's he got Ferruchemy? I don't think we have textual evidence for Kelsier having either of those, but the GBs do have them so that's not much of a stretch. ...Kelsier with lots of colorful clothes and a bird on his shoulder... ...Rainbow Pirate Kelsier versus an insane tyrant/self-declared god? It'll be like his death scene from Final Empire but this time he holds all the cards instead of going in with a crazy all-in on a contingency plan.

Holy crap, if he got his hands on full Ferruchemy as well as his Mistborn abilities (though I still think it's possible the Bands were made with Investiture tech similarly to Southern Scadrian airships and amulets), that's Rashek levels of overpowered. (though granted, Rashek didn't have to deal with Allomantic dilution from lerasium, although otoh allomantic powerr dilution over generations seems to proceed at uneven rates/as the plot demands?) OK, now I want to see Ishar's Connection theft, Surgebinding, and millennia of experience vs. Fullborn Cognitive-Shadow-stapled-to-a-mistwraith-body-plus-maybe-some-extra-Hemalurgic-spikes Kelsier using Metallic Arts Investiture (would Ferruchemical stored weight work for this?) to power Nightblood. My money's on Kelsier in that situation.

I can buy kandra, Elantrian, or Pulser; my first thought was Elantrian, personally.

Honestly at this point I would be not so much A-OK with Kelsier going on a Herald-permakilling-spree, as I would be actively cheering him on. Especially if he goes after Ishar and Kalak. (no, I do not buy that making Ishar sane again is a good thing, I strongly suspect that he is actually a very bad dude underneath everything) Besides, Kelsier's never gotten to personally kill a god before. Maybe he takes down a Herald or two, pins it on Marsh (Marsh would probably like being known as a Herald-killing death god across the cosmere lol), and cons Sazed into taking on multiple extra Shards? Honestly that would be a pretty great capstone for his career so he can quit hanging out in the Cognitive Realm and see if Mare's waiting for him. So when I read this I immediately thought "Mistborn spiked into a mistwraith vs. Surgebinder" and I found myself desperately needing that fight. I think Kelsier wins if he has atium (though it probably depends a lot on the Surgebinder's powers and ability with them tbh), but I would pay a lot of money to see him take on Kalak or Ishar, or even just have a Let's Have You and Him Fight with Kaladin or Shallan.

Ah, right. I honestly forgot that. XD

Would a kandra not respond to Regrowth though? Even though they are Invested, that shouldn't block Lift's healing.

I still think that Kaladin's Fourth Ideal directly contradicts that WOB to some degree and/or implies that something is significantly different now because Honor was killed/Splintered. But Adolin the galactic fashion critic is pretty funny.

Even if we go by the ring and posit that Bondsmiths have the most Honor and Truthwatchers the most Cultivation (questionable, IMO), Lightweavers (and Edgedancers for that matter) still use Honor's Investiture unless specifically altered by Cultivation. The only Truth that Lightweavers are bound to is their own, they can lie all they like in pursuit of their mission and Shallan explicitly states that she can flat-out ignore oaths not part of her bond with Pattern without a problem. That might indicate more Cultivation influence, or it might indicate Honor understanding that sometimes deception can be used honorably--which also fits with the general theme of Radiants in general as tempering their idealism with just enough pragmatism to function in an imperfect world. (c.f. Kaladin's Fourth Ideal, the way that Teft explains the First Ideal to Kaladin in TWOK)

I know you probably mean Dalinar by this, but honestly...I think that this could also be T's kind-but-"stupid" self.

Honor is also clearly flexible enough to recognize good actions > lawful actions (see: Lift, Lightweavers). Preservation is the static Lawful Stupid one, I personally think that Adolin's actions do fit within Honor's purview.