Aleksiel

I don't think sending Kholin men to check upon a citylord in another Highprince's domain would have been acceptable. It was Sadeas's responsibility how his citylords govern his cities.

I don't understand this last part. Which son is Dalinar protecting by not trialing Amaram and why?

It depends. He didn't drink that fast and he had some food, he might also be able to tolerate more liquor considering how he drinks relatively often. It's not unimaginable. I'm skeptical they Alethkar doesn't have anything above 12%.

There are people who can drink more than a bottle of vodka/whiskey without falling under the table.

Amaram admitted he stole the Shards and murdered his own men, thus leaving the Shards on the battlefield wasn't a loophole for him to exploit and get them legally; not physically taking the Shards didn't count as Kaladin losing the claim to them. Amaram didn't deny he committed a crime. While I agree leaving the Shards for good could be read as losing the claim, that wasn't the case even in Amaram's own eyes and I think he knows Alethi law better than us.

You are right, but wouldn't that mean there isn't anything stronger than Earth-like wine on Roshar? That would be weird. No other alcohol has been mentioned besides the colorful wines.

I imagined blue to be wine-like and purple to be stronger. And in my mind orange is like radler (~2%).

While I agree with both kaellok and EMTrevor that Kaladin had the right to do as he saw fit with the Shards, I can also see where maxal is coming from. Kaladin did leave the Shards on the battlefield and walked away. Is that the same as renouncing the right to the Shards? Amaram thought the Shards were still Kaladin's even after he left them on the battlefield. That, combined with Dalinar's reaction and Amaram's confession makes it fairly clear Amaram wasn't exploiting a loophole in the law, but indeed committed a crime.

I agree it was a surprisingly poor mistake to consider this a good law and T realized it, which is why he banned himself from changing laws. I honestly have no recollection of Vargo saying he's better than everyone else, and since you couldn't find the quote may be you mistook someone else saying such a thing for T? It happens. I get you're sarcastic about Gavilar. But T went to the Nightwatcher after the feast Gavilar was killed. Of course it was hypocritic, but admitting what he was doing would have been sheer stupidity. I think the Diagram is a way to save humanity, but not the path worth taking as journey-before-destination is the spirit of the novels. Vargo will be used to represent just that, the wrong means to achieve something good and how much better the Radiant way is. So, from a meta-text perspective, the Diagram must indeed be a plan ensuring the survival of humanity in advance on a day of supreme brilliance. I'm also quite certain Dalinar and co will find another way. Which worries me, because I've seldom predicted correctly how Brandon's novels will go, so my confidence in the Radiants might point the opposite...

Here

Kaladin giving the Shards to Amaram willingly wouldn't have changed a thing Amaram did:

It was a fishy story, likely a made up one. But Amaram got busted. Suspicious stories of earning Shards might be over-looked, but the murder of Kal's friends is now a public knowledge. Kal is currently Radiant, so his testimony against Amaram will have more weigh than when he was darkeyes. The Skybreakers certainly will disapprove of what he did: But since Adolin isn't a surgebinder, Nin won't care. He's too busy chasing dinner-stealing 12-year olds. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you are right. Have my up-vote! I agree with almost everything here on Kaladin. However, Kal doesn't think everyone else upholds his moral, he thinks lighteyes have non at all. Also, I see no reason to give the Shards to Amaram. Even if he had done so, Amaram would have killed his men and enslave him with the same reasoning: 'You'd change your mind and I can't have that. Nobody will believe you gave the Shards away.' edit: changing disprove to disapprove

May be, but none of them was exposed. Lighteyes don't get away with murders like that, else the darkeyes would have rioted much sooner. Killing a slave possibly doesn't count as a crime in Alethi war, but randomly killing someone isn't a thing unless you have some textual evidence of lighteyes being allowed to kill darkeyes on a whim. Actually, we don't know what Amaram would have done had Kal taken the Shards. Kaladin wanted them given to one of his man and it was his right to do so as we see in WoR when he gives his Shards to Moash. Hush now, you don't want Kaladin to hear you! I don't think Kal got ahead of himself when he gave the Shards to his comrade, but even if he did that doesn't justify murder. Amaram could have handled it differently. He could have declared the Shards are his if Kaladin won't take them for himself and get a little stain on his reputation, that would have likely been over-looked by any lighteyes. Moash is a bad example. Most people don't personally hate the king and conspire to murder him, though Amaram might be arrogant enough to bring it up on his trial.

He murdered his own man, stole Shards and illegally enslaved their owner. I really don't share the view that others have done the same as Amaram when they order their men to assault plateaus. Dalinar definitely thought what Amaram did was a crime.

But would Vivenna be still alive? Warbreaker is supposed to be 200 before WoK iirc.

Amaram admitted to murder and theft in front of many witnesses, including two Highprinces. There's no way he wouldn't be trialed and sentenced. In order to cause trouble, Amaram would have to escape justice first.

I didn't think that was arrogant. He didn't had the empathy or intelligence to see it from other peoples perspective, so he came off as arrogant, but he meant well with those laws. When he had a better intelligence-empathy balance, he banned himself from changing/making laws on smart days and this shows arrogance wasn't his drive. When did he ever claim others were below him? Because bloodthirsty Blackthorn won't be a hindrance, he would have just shattered Alethkar, making it easier for T to take over. Dalinar, who aims to unite, however is an unwelcome competition. Dalinar the Bondsmith would never join forces with Diagram T. T has a plan and Dalinar is a tyrant, who does things his way, and would never go for the Diagram, but stand against it, thus he becomes T's foe. T couldn't admit anything infont of witnesses, his plan has to remain a secret in order to succeed. The only way to be king of Jah Keved was if people wanted him to be. Yes, you are right. It's the theme of the series, I think. While I am for the journey before destination philosophy, this is a very extreme case with the faith of humanity at stake. I think it's better for part of humanity to survive than for all to perish honorably. The ultimate survival of the human kind outweighs all other moral concerns. edit: fixing the quotes

I don't think Sadeas went Moriarty on Adolin. Why fight back at all if he had a death wish? Sadeas wanted to be king from what I remember.

Well, Sadeas was obviously losing and going to die anyway. He should have been desperate enough to risk cutting his own arm if that meant killing Adolin and thus surviving. It's unreasonable to think a professional soldier with decades of experience will just ignore his best weapon and not try to seize the slightest opportunity to survive.

Only non of the previous Desolations started with an Everstorm. The Stormfather called it a new thing, so this might very well be the first time there is an everstorm on Roshar. I don't think Nalan has just gone crazy. We don't know how Honor was shattered and what Tanavast did to trap Odium, why Recreance happened and so on. I give Nalan the benefit of doubt here. edit: spelling

Arrogance was never Vargo's flaw, not one time that we've seen him and I find it unreasonable to think he suddenly gained a new character trait when writing the Diagram. The lack of empathy was no longer an issue on Diagram level since he was again able to predict human behavior; he had enough brain power to compensate so to speak. You want there to be a better plan with less people dying, but I'm unsure if that's realistic when it comes to Desolation. There is no evidence T didn't consider other options. He wrote down what he thought had the best chance to save humanity. It's unfair to blame him for not being able to come up with something else. T has no other ways of having other territories join him. Kharbranth is a city with hospitals and no army of any significance. In order to add a country to his, T had to spread chaos in the said country and go with his healers and food like a savior like he did in Jah Keved. I don't see overtaking a country with an army to be any better. T was in no position to propose alliance or conquer. At any rate, I don't see anyone wanting to join Dalinar or T, so they both will have to use force. I find him sympathetic and not evil. He wants to ensure the survival of humanity and never discriminated in his thoughts - he isn't trying to save himself, his people or any particular group of people. Generally speaking, Zahel's advice to Kal to do what will make it easier for him to sleep at night is a selfish way of thinking. Vargo does what he thinks best for humanity regardless of the personal cost and cries himself to sleep. What T's doing is not sympathetic, but his character is to me.

Sadeas forgot he had a Blade, because he wasn't used to it. However, it is unlikely since we're talking professional soldier and warlord, who had his life at stake plenty of times and would have died much sooner if he was really that mindless. Sadeas began summoning his Blade, but Adolin didn't notice (hence the one hand that's not in the text) and died before the tenth heartbeat. The problem here is I'd expect Adolin to notice this regardless of his state; his survival instincts should have kicked in the moment Sadeas attempted such a dangerous action. It's improbable Adolin wouldn't notice the summoning of a Shardblade. I hope some else has a better idea. edit: just checked the text again and Sadeas was holding Adolin's wrist with both hands

Only Adolin wasn't paying much attention to Sadeas hands and the latter one didn't seem to even try to summon his Blade. He had Adolin's wrist in one hand, the other wasn't mentioned in the text and Adolin didn't notice any attempted summoning.

Ah, that million to one chance that succeeds nine out of ten times? Well, I can't argue with that. They shall be victorious then! A villain? I thought he was an anti-hero. Well, never mind. I think you are too emotional and clouds your judgement on the Diagram. Do you blame T for not coming up with something less morally arguable? If you ask me, T must do his absolute best to save humanity and if that's the Diagram, then so be it. Becoming a 'king of everything' is, as Moogle pointed out, the first sentence of a whole book with instructions. We don't know what T planned to do after that. For me it's obvious he has something better in mind than simply uniting, else Vargo wouldn't follow the Diagram and noone would believe the plan had a reasonably good chance of success. We don't know what he has planned to do after that, but it must be something good enough to convince many to help him - Andro, Mrall, the stormwardens and others, including the emphatic not-so brilliant Vargo himself. I understand your desire for there to be a better plan, but so far there just isn't.