RShara

They were forcefully crammed there. Snipped for length. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1473

Nope. They were waaaay back in prehistory. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to build Elantris or have Dakhor Monks or ChayShan or Forgery, since all the Selish magics are based on the Dor, which is a mix of D&D, and they wouldn't have been location based. And also, Odium's been trapped on Roshar for at least.....6000 years? (4500 since Aharietiam, and randomly guessing over a millennia since the First Desolation). (To be fair, I thought this at one point as well)

Brandon Sanderson once said, "Behold! Let there be light!" And his book obediently burst into flames. True story (mostly).

I'm actually on board with this. But to be fair "What we've done was wrong" might be referring to abandoning the Oathpact and leaving the Honorblades in the first place. I don't know if they were involved in making Szeth Truthless, but I think they might have manipulated events to get him to kill Gavilar, who was a budding Bondsmith. Because Nale would have had no way to touch him.

Nope. Odium Splintered Dominion and Devotion millennia ago, long before the Reod. Before humans built Elantris. He then ripped their power out of the Spiritual Realm, where most Shardic power is, and shoved it into the Cognitive. In the Spiritual Realm distance isn't a factor, so most Shardic powers such as Allomancy, Breath, etc, can be used anywhere they can find or carry a source for it. Because the Dor is stuck in the Cognitive Realm, where distance IS a factor, the Selish magic is region locked. The farther away from its "home" region you try to use a power, the weaker it is. As to how, Brandon compared it to Vin and Elend. Elend is way more powerful than Vin, but Vin is more warrior minded and naturally skilled at using Allomancy, and would totally slap Elend down in a fight.

No, it's because the power was yanked out of the Spiritual Realm and stuffed into the Cognitive. So it can't gain sapience. @Calderis reminded me earlier. Spren are still weird though.

That was the entire epigraph. There's only 4 from the Eila Stele (it's a carving, not a person) in the whole book. I think it's clear that she's talking about something recent (the betrayal). Remember that it is in the Dawnchant, as well.

It's not a work of fiction, as far as we know.

Right, I believe the non-sapient spren were around pre-Shattering. I'm not sure about the sapient ones.

The more I think on this, the more I realize how weird spren are. Investiture usually resides in the Spiritual Realm. Odium crammed Devotion and Dominion's power into the Cognitive Realm to prevent it from gaining sapience. And that's a LOT of investiture. So how do spren, who are bits of investiture in the Cognitive Realm, ever gain sapience or sentience in the first place? (Note: I'm not actually arguing that you're wrong, this is just something that came to me that is very puzzling)

I think it's a case of Dalinar being special. He didn't summon or create a Shardblade, he forced investiture into a form solid enough to use as a key, but it didn't sound like a Blade. Just a chunk of power. I don't think other Bondsmiths would have been able to do that. He said the 3rd Oath at the end of OB.

Okay I think I'm starting to understand now, sorry. I think we have a WoB that investiture will always gain sapience, and that the more investiture it has the faster it will gain that sapience.

I am often silly. It's one of my personality quirks. Not necessarily hard to believe, if you think about it. Was Nale already a Skybreaker at that point? Had he revealed himself to them as a Herald? If so, he could have dictated what they would do. We know that he's been hunting proto-surgebinders for a really long time. From the quote that you pasted, which I was about to reference, we know the Skybreakers did something that cost the other orders a high price. If Nale didn't want information getting back to the spren about the Recreance, or, in his madness, just didn't want to give up *any* information, he could easily have ordered them not to say anything. Mmm the Stormfather, you mean? His memories might be spotty, but I think that part is something he would remember. Nale seems to also confirm the tale, as does the Eila Stele. That's 3 independent sources right there.

I guess my mind isn't working because I still don't understand. I'll check in again later.

We know that human surgebinders wrecked at least one planet already. If Roshar gets destroyed, not only do the humans all die, but the spren too. To save the lives of all the humans and all the other spren, they agreed on acting out the Recreance, and staying silent about it. That way, spren wouldn't be willing to bond with humans again for a long time. Basically until something forced them to again, such as a new Desolation. And it clearly worked. (Incidentally, I covered this in the original post...) ...what would they say? "Hey I know you guys rely on our powers but heh...turns out....we might destroy the planet and all life on it. So....we're just going to leave you with our super sharp, indestructible, cuts-through-anything Blades, who are really the dead bodies of our soulmates, for you to wreak havoc with, to ensure our Oaths are quite thoroughly broken. Have fun!" "Oh, and don't tell any of the spren, otherwise they might keep trying to bond with us, and that's a really bad idea. Toodles!"

I'm still confused, because I'm pretty sure there are non-Radient spren that are sapient.

What about Cusicesh, the Oathgate spren, and non-Radiant sapient spren? (Also, you probably mean sapient instead of sentient).

Even if there wasn't much of a civilization, there were still familial and friendship ties. For example, we interact directly with the son of one of the deadeyes, and he doesn't have any specifics on why the Recreance happens. He just says, "Humans can't keep oaths." Timbre is actually angry at humans because her grandfather was killed in the Recreance. So we have a son and a grand daughter of Recreance spren who are definitely unhappy with humans and who don't seem to know the actual reason. And as Cal said, there was a lot of organization. Thousands of people meeting at specific points across the continent all giving up their Shards at the same time. You don't set that up in a day.

Either way, unless Yalb is a proto-Lightweaver, her drawing him disproves that point, alas.

I don't remember anything about Gavinor and a nine-headed horse, but Shallan also draws Yalb and some of the sailors making it ashore, and there wasn't likely a Cryptic around then.

Because Shallan is weird? I have no idea. In the quoted text, it says that Shallan drew whatever came to her.

When Shallan sketches her.

But that's not as challenge to the theory. It's actually one of my supporting points.

Spook says it out loud, and Ruin can hear and see what people do. Darn it Cal

Again, it's about perception, not injury. His arm grew back, as Brandon explicitly said, because he never accepted that his arm was gone. And having seen Kaladin heal, he knew that he could heal it if he could figure out how to draw in stormlight. From the horse's mouth, so to speak. Renarin's seizures and eyesight healed, even though those weren't injuries, because he never accepted them as part of him.