Kier

I have a hard time believeing that Syl would watch all the bridgemen all the time. She can after all only be in one place at a time. She is not omnipresent nor omnipotent.  

 

Although I do think it likely that Gaz could have also been in a bridge crew until Dalinar gave them the ok to leave. I do not see Gaz sticking around for one second longer than he had to. 

 

The only other issue with Gaz in a bridge crew is that Bridge 4 runs quite a few runs there in the end, and they had started searching all the bridge crews that run for wounded men. I think one of Bridge 4 would recognize the one eyed sergeant lying on the stones exhausted as they search for wounded. Unless out of the 40 bridge crews Gazs crew never ended up running with Bridge 4. 

 

Edit:spelling

Could the shard blades be formed as part of the Nahel bond? 

 

This could be why they stopped glowing during the Recreance.  As the KR abandoned the shards the spren also abandoned the shard thus it stops glowing and becomes a shard with no spren investiture.  An unsponsored blade could be similar to a Parshman that has no form.

 

I find this likely and along the lines that I was thinking. 

 

I think that the Nahel bond and becomeing a KR requires you to make your own blade and plate. I think the unique factor of shardblades attests to that fact. I think they are created from the bond and house a bonded spren, or at least did. 

 

That leads me to an interesting question. Did the KR stop being Surgebinders when they left there plate and blade on the day of Recreance? although Brandon will probably just RAFO that. Did they put down there bond with their spren too? 

 

We know its possible because Syl says she can leave Kaladin. mmmm.

I don't see how anyone can say that Dalinar is Stupid, unable, incapapble, or bringing about the distruction of Roshar. I mean warrented yeah he misunderstood the visions and it almost got him killed. But really, thats a far cry from destorying a whole planet of Humankind.

 

And Mr. T being a better leader? No. I'm sorry, but no. A man driven by his own ambition to take control of the whole world, even for their "greater good" is not a good leader.

Though I agree with you, others have theorized that Honorblades may behave somewhat differently in the hands of someone not bound by the Oathpact.

 

Mmm makes me want to re-read the prelude. I feel like the Oathpact and Honorblades are intertwined in such a way that they literally had to leave the blades to break the Oathpact. I.e. picking them up again will keep it.... ALthough then there is the recent WoB that one other Herald still has his/her, or at least went back for and had for a time his/her Honorblade. So, I guess that disproves that in a way since Only Taln showed up and not some other Herald...... MMMMM...

In the prolouge the honorblades are described as 7 magnificant swords, inscribed with glyphs and patterns. This deosn't really clarify that they are infact large, however, flwoing with glyphs and patterns? how much room do you have for glyphs and unique patterns on a normal sword? or even larger than normal sword?  and Talns Honorblade is discribed as bright silvery blade, a shardblade, a massive Shardblade, point down sticking a fingers with into the stone. It was long, narrow and straight. So at least his Honorblade is massive. Although we do know that the Honorblades are "unique."

 

Also Talns honorblade does not seem to change the color of his eyes, as he has Dark eyes when he shows up in Kohlinar.

 

One more thing that I just thought of. If Honorblades disapear when the holder dies, how are the Stone Shamans going ot recover Szeths Honorblade when he dies? It will theoratically disapear.

 

For these reason and, the logical reason that the honorblades like shardblades where made to fight against voidbringers I would think that Szeth does not have an honorblade. I feel the Honorblades are bigger than Szeths less than huge sword. 

 

Thats why I don't think Szeth has an honorblade but the "3rd type". 

I think Kaladin thought to himself that there are as many bridgeman as warriors in the army that he used to serve in.

Its possible Gaz wanted to lay low to avoid kaladins atention, although I don't know how he kept shut the bridgmen in his own crew, those would easily recognize him...

 

Yeah there are "almost" 1000 men when Dalinar saves the Bridgemen and brings them over to the camp. I think Gaz would be able to hide within the bridgement and not be noticed by Kaladin or anyone in Bridge 4. esspecially since at the time he would have been sent to the bridge crews, bridge 4 really is either in a chasm doing chasm duty or doing bridge runs. Not really alot of time to be digging through near 1000 men for one person. 

 

Although, I still think Skar killed him. haha

So here are my choices..

 

Kelsier = I'm not sure, Robert Downey Jr. Might be good.

Vin =  I was thinking Jennifer Lawrence

Elend= I'm not sure...

TLR= Benedict Cumberbatch hands down

Breeze = John Cleese

Ham = John Rhys-Davies

Sazed = Sir Ben Kingsley

And finally, if the Heralds are needed to rule the kingdoms and the Radiants, why does the Almighty ignore them in the visions that plead for the resurrection of the Radiants?

 

 

This is a good point.

 

I mean, we know that Honor craeted "Mankind", well unless he is lying in his last vision to Dalinar, when he says, "I am... I was, God, The Almighty, The Creator of Mankind."  

 

Therefore we can Assume that he set up with Odium the Oathpact to have the Heralds protect Humans. 

 

However, he seems more inclined to care about the Radiants. Which is interesting. Furthermore the Heralds themselves say they "picked up this boon willingly, So we can put it down again willingly."

 

Thats my hangup. Is I don't understand how Honor could be unable to see and set up a system like the KR when he is God, yet he needed a man (Nohadon) to do it for him. 

 

Although I do suppose Honor was also a man, with incredible knowledge and power... 

 

It also makes me think that the Oathpact was maybe origianlly more Cultivation and Honor... and Odium just... got in there somehow. 

 

Mostuly becasue the Cycical nature of the Desolations, and how they happened, it seems, at least to me more of Cultivation. Although we know the Oathpact was or had something to do with "binding the enemy" as we see in the prelude between Jazrien and Kalak.

 

It seems to be Cultivating the best of Humanity. (I know, that sounds really harsh, just what I see though.) 

 

I think Peter's probably referring to the fact that many of the members of Bridge Four are based off of Brandon's friends, so the man Skar is based on is being deployed.

 

Ahh, thank you. haha

Skar is being deployed back to Afghanistan next week or so. So this theory (just from reading the title) seems plausible to me.

 

What?

I was going to go through each post and respond to everything individually, but there's just a little too much to go through. Apologies I can't give everyone's thoughtful posts the responses they deserve. Further apologies for offending someone enough to get downvotes.

 

 

I'm sorry you got downvotes, thats not cool, your just stating your position strongly and there is nothing wrong with that. I gave you an upvote, hopefully it can help offset that. 

 

That being said, I can agree with you that we don't really know if Taravangian is terrible. I also don't think he is. However, as my astroid analogy was... well the point I was trying to get at is you can spend to much time studying the thing instead of studying a solution or executing a solution. 

 

I feel like the Death Whispers are more about the general desoaltions and not often about solutions. I think Taravangian with his access to the larges library and the most scholars on Roshar could find more information about a solution than I think he is getting from the death whispers. 

 

For this reason, I think the solution is the KR, and therefore Dalinar the better choice. However, you do bring up some solid points in that when they followed the KR stuff really didn't get better... ever. 

 

Also, that we as the readers dont really have access to ALL the Death Whispers. Good points. 

 

I really like this theory and am upvoting it.  It is so creative and clever that I can't help but smile. 

 

However, I think it is possible but unlikely.  The things that leave me skeptical:

1. Gaz is being blackmailed about something which could motivate someone into wanting to punish him, do him in or him bolting.
2. Gaz had been paying off someone and was involved in the death of that person, leading to the same possibilities as above.
3. I don't see that Skar would act that decisively without checking with Kaladin.  I could see Moash doing it before Skar, if anyone, as he seems to rely on his own judgments more.
4. If a bridgeman wanted to turn in the group and be rewarded, they could report to any guard, not just Gaz, and they all know it.  While Gaz is referenced, Gaz's death doesn't really solve the problem, as I see it. 

 

 

1. Gaz was being blackmailed by Lamirl. We have not reason to believe anyone else knew about whatever it was Lamirl was blackmailing him for. Lamirl got exicuted. 

2. ...

3. I can agree, I just said Skar becasue he is the one that mentions it in the chasm. Maybe it was Skar and Moash? Becuase I agree it seems more a Moashy type action.

4. I mostly disagree with this statement. I can see why that seems the case. Except most of the guards/soldiers hate bridge 4. why would anyone believe them? and the New Lighteyes lady and her husband (names escape me.) Really hate them and I can see the bridge man easily thinking, I could get Gaz to agree with me and maybe get a reward, but these soldiers or that lighteyes lady? they will just hang me out to dry and punish me for tying to make myself look important.

 

At least those are my thoughts.

Gaz being in the bridge crews seems like a very good option indeed!

 

I don't think skar killed him, just because Syl watched over the bridgemen all night to see if someone would go meet Gaz, and no one did.

Sure the murder could be done during the day, but we can assume that Gaz was armed, it would be dificult for a bridgeman to kill an armed man unnoticed especially during the day...

 

I do agree the bridge crew is a good option, but I still think Skar killed him.

 

Syl did say whe whould watch the men to see if any of them go to Gaz. However, I don't think Skar did it that night, or immidately. Secondly, Moash and Skar Kaladin says are some of this best fighters.

 

Gaz doesn't seem like he is that good at fighting, and he is missing an eye, and all he is armed with is a crugle... I really think Skar would have no problem with the one armed bridge sargent in a back ally, or another night. 

 

Furthermore, him being a darkeyes I don't think any of the lighteyes would really care, so I don't think they would "look into it" much. 

Bet you Kaladin will find a familiar face in one of his men.

 

Wait, scratch that. I forgot people do take bets seriously around here.

 

You think he was turned into a bridgeman in another crew and is now with Dalinars Army? 

You did successfully get the idea across, and now that I think about the interview, you are correct, it was more just implyed that people would talk about it alot more than people did, not that there was a "murder".

 

Anyway, my theory stands, haha. 

In trying to find out who the last two lines of the epigraph are referring to, it may be necessary to ask who is speaking here.  Here is my analysis of some of the lines I found insightful.

 

The first line reads "I long for the days before the Last Desolation."

 

This means the writer is not some anonymous third person narrator, but someone vitally concerned with Roshar.  It also indicates that he knows a lot about the old days.  This is supported by the next paragraph where he describes the time period with more detail then the typical 'modern' person can give.

 

"The world became ours"

 

Since Roshar belongs to humanity we can assume that the author is a human living on Roshar or someone else that identifies with Rosharian humanity as 'my side'.  This means the author is probably not a worldhopper.

 

"There are four whom we watch."

 

This is where things get a little meta.  The author is ostensibly referring to the book TWoK.  However, TWok does not exist in the context of the story.  (There is an in universe book with that name, but it is not the same book as the one on my desk here.)  Furthermore there does not seem to any entity that would have a reason to keep tabs on these four people.  Is suspect that the epigraph was written from the point of view of a hypothetical Roshar citizen that somehow knows more than anyone else about what is going on.  That person would know more then us regarding the capabilities and destinies of each of the four.

 

"These four people are key."

 

This seems to indicate that Kalladin, Szeth, Shalan, and Dallinar will all be important through the whole story, not just in one or two books.

 

I really doubt Dallinar will die anytime soon.

 

I agree with everything you have said. And I also think it is very usefull information. To me, the "The world became ours" refers to spren bonds. 

 

To me it seems obvious that the spren are native to Roshar and more importantly they "are the world" if you get my drift. Humans on the other hand are not native to Roshar. and I think this reffrence is to the time that humans learned and were actively bonding with the spren. I.e. the world was theirs.

 

 

Regarding Taravangain, if he was doing what needed to be done because there was no other way to do it I might be inclined to give him some credit.  However, it seems to me that he is more interested in making sure he is the one to save the world that he is willing to destroy some of the people that he needs to save it.

 

Here is a better plan for getting the death statments he feels he needs:

1. Make public the information that he has.

2. Contact the other world leaders that he thinks will cooperate, and ask them to collect and share the death cries they obtain.

3. Lend staff to help set up the system of collecting and distributing the information.

 

Ways this plan is better:

• He can get the death cries made in several nations, rather than just his city state.
• It encourages the nations of the world to offer medical care to the ill as a side benefit.
• It establishes a habit of the nations of the world to listen to Taravangain that he can build on to form a loose hegemony.
• The world leaders that opt in to the program will learn the gravity of the situation before things get bad.
• Communication infrastructure would necessarily be built across the world.  This is a useful thing when the world is about to end.
• If something else weird happens in one nation (like someone seeing visions of the Knights Radiant during highstorms) they would have a reason to pass what they know to Taravangain.
• If Taravangain were to pass away unexpectedly (or lose his power in a coup) before the completion of the 'save the world' project there would be a way for someone else to step into his position.
• The cost of the project is divided up between all nations that participate and not just Kharbranth

The only way I see Taravagain's current plan is "better" is that he gets to be the one to call all the shots.  This is the reason he is a villain.  He lets his ambition and desire to seize what he views as his destiny force him down a path that dooms the world.

I also strongly agree with this. 

Now this is totally just wild speculation, however I wanted to explore it. Its just for fun. 

 

We know that Brandon has mentioned that "Something happend to Gaz, that there is evidence to find out what it is" in TWOK. 

 

Josep wrote: "Just a nagging question: What happened to Gaz? After some character development he just vanishes in chapter 59 without further explanation. Will he be back on the next books?"

I'm planning for you to find out what happened to Gaz. There are sufficient clues that you can guess. But it is not explicitly stated, and I'm not going to say it's as obvious as Robert Jordan implied Asmodean's killer is. I was tempted to spell it out explicitly, but there wasn't a good place for it. I will probably answer it eventually, maybe in the next book, but until then you are free to theorize.

 

It is my current thinking that What happened to Gaz is that he was Murdered.

 

On my current re-read of TWOK I was struck by something. The first time Gaz is mentioned being missing is by Kaladin, on a bridge run. It is right after Maps dies. Kaladin is talking to Lopen about the Rope, making sure that Lopen threw the whole coil down and didn't tie the rope to the bridge, for fear that Gaz would find out or suspect what Kaladin was trying to do.

 

Kaladin then wonders "Where is Gaz? Why didn't he come on the bridge run?"

 

When he said that, I though back, when was the last time someone, anyone mentioned Gaz. and I realized the last time we heard about Gaz was when Skar was asking "what if someone goes to Gaz about what we are doing down here?" (I.E. stealing the spheres.) 

 

That part ends with Kaladin explaing that we don't want to be mistrusting eachother and its a risk we will have to take, and we can't be second guessing eachother. and with Skar being "Placated" 

 

So with the limited knowledge we have, I say Skar wasn't "placated" enough and Killed Gaz to prevent anyone from turning in the rest of Bridge 4

 

Edit: clarification of Brandon Quote.

Moogle the big problem I have with your theory here, Is that you seem to think knowing the death chants will save the world. 

 

From what we know, The Radiants, the Heralds, and the surgebinders were needed to defend against the voidbringers and the desolations in times past. You needed people that knew war, were good at war, and had magic to back it up. 

• All Taravangian has is knowledge. And while Knowledge is good, it isn't going to save anyone from a thunderclast curshing them with their long slender stone fingers.
  

You arguement to me is like saying if NASA saw and astriod coming towards earth and we knew it was most likely going to wipe everything out (as demonstrated by fossils and geological setimant from earths past.) and they spent there time finding out what color the astriod was, how fast it was moving, what it was made of, and where it was going to impact earth. And than say, well we really need to develop a new kind of long range bomb that we can shoot at it to get it off course, but we were to curious about the astriod itself and now we dont have time.

 

Taravangian should be collecting and bribing and researching surgbinding and getting surgbinders to fight the desolations, Esspecially since he knows how long we have until it comes, not murdering people to get random tidbits of info for no reason. 

 

For this reason, I choose Dalinar, becuase whether or not you like War, it is most likely that War is coming. 

 

Also, I'm convinced the "Unite Them" from Honor, is "Unite the Knights Radiant." What do we know about the visions? they are from Honor, and they "Always revolve around the Knights Radiant." (Dalinar says that, or something similar) and how do they Usually, if not  always end? Honor Commanding Dalinar to "Unite Them" it isn't hard to put 2 and 2 together and realize Oh, he probably means to Unite the thing the people that hte visions are about, I.E, The KR. 

 

Why? Oh, right, Because Honor thinks that The KR is the best be for Humanity to survive the Desolation. That seems pretty logical to me. Not the rambilings of people seeing Shadsmar, desolations, or the 10 fools on their deathbeds.

 

For this reason I choose Dalinar. 

 

As to who might actually be the destoryer my bet is really with Kaladin. Mostly because I see him as unstable. I do think he is coming down the right path, and is on his way to not being the destoryer. However, him slipping, seeing Dalinar do somethign he feels is unjust, I can see that causing him to go over that edge and go further than just being the Wretch. but casting off Syl, judging Syl as joinging the light eyes, and Killing Dalinar and as many lighteyes as he can. Thereby destroying the Knights Radiant before they were able to turely become united and leaving the world with only randome ramblings and a halfwit with know experience in war to protect form a formitable, cunning, and, masterful warbringer.

 

Good luck with that.

DROPLETS
Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns
-Collected: Chachnan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Irali descent.
---Sample here is of note. References the shards of Roshar, and mentions a "Boken one", possibly Odium. Hints at a hidden shard yet unseen.

 

To me, I mean, obviously 3 of 16 = 3 shards of adonalsium that ruled on Roshar (Cultivation, Honor, and Odium) Through the Oathpack. What I find strange, or what comes ot mind is "Now the Broken One reigns." 

 

I wonder if it really is refrencing "Honor Reigns" but he isn't Honor any longer. Maybe Honors being Splintered has...one destroyed the Oathpack, but now Honor is Dead, litterally within the people.

 

Maybe they now need to recombine Honor? I dunno, I just don't see how "The Broken One" refers to Odium. to me it seems much closer to a refrence to  Honor, ie, a Broken Shard... but I dunno how that works. 

Does it say in the book that the man in the plate was a Ghostblood? I'm asuming it does. but I can't remember. 

 

Regardless really, I really like this theory, but i'm really not sure.

 

From what we know about Shallans older brother is one yes he was involved more in their fathers "planning" but that he stood up to his father and faught him on things.

 

That doesn't sound like he is someone that liked what his father was doing. 

 

This really can go one of two ways. Her brother was a Ghostblood and brought in Lushe(sp)..(Gosh sorry I don't have my book, and these names..) The confermerd Ghostblood servent that knew about and how to use the soul caster. Therefore, Shallans Oldest brother was Pushing the Father to be involved and take the deals and do as the Ghostbloods asked. 

 

Or

 

Her father was the Ghostblood and Her older brother didn't agree with what he was doing. And tried ot fight against him. Eventually either being taken and killed/bannished by the Ghostbloods, or Ranaway to except the previous. 

 

Thats where my mind goes. But who knows, maybe there were just two people with similar goals and the brother stood up to the father in how they should go about it... wouldn't be the first dysfunctional political partnership. 

I'm not sure he would have had to actually measure them. Isn't it sufficient to simply record and believe the values?

 

In the interlude of the two scientists, doesn't it say that if they jsut wrote down a randome number it didn't work, but when they measured them and than wrote it down they stayed at (or around) that number

Shallan mentions that they have a cataloging system that they developed that almost every library uses now. It probably explains it mostly there... I think its when she goes and reads "Shadows Remembered" while getting a different book. 

Good point.

 

I don't think we have any reliable confirmation that those books were destroyed by the Hierocracy instead of being lost when Sunmaker overthrew them.

@Rybal Thank you. That is a clear explination of where my confusion is coming from. 

I can't remember but doesn't WoK mention somewhere that alot of written works from the shadow days and even just before the Hierocracy where lost durring the Hierocracy?

 

I.E. the Priests that than at least for some time controlled everything, hid, destroyed, or otherwise obscurred the past? 

 

To me that speaks to the "failing of Vorinism" or that most likely the Hierocracy wasn't a good thing. Or at least I can't come up with a reason as to why Honor would back the Hierocracy ro send Visions to them to help.

 

Although it is important to remember that Honor really doesn't know who is getting his visions and by that, what they will do with them. 

 

Edit:spelling