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Well said, marianmi. I still don't find myself fully convinced, but there are definitely pieces of it that I like a lot. This is a very well-reasoned theory.

Yes, but from the example of Szeth in WoK, I assumed there would be one Eshonai chapter per set of interludes. The twitter picture indicates that there are two Eshonai chapters together in the first interlude. If that's not just a misplacement in the draft version, this is a break from the pattern we've seen. Another possibility is that soulcasting requires one to visit Shadesmar, and the spren there are much more hostile than they used to be towards human interlopers.

This stuck out to me too, and initially I was going to speculate that the sphere's gem had captured a spren similar to the gems that power fabrials. Since Rock seems more aware of spren in general, it made sense that he might notice. But this doesn't work given Syl's lack of reaction--I really think she would both notice and object to trapping spren. For now, I'm chalking the "him" reference up to cultural personification, similar to the way a boat is usually "her".

Oooh, didn't quite catch that dynamic. The engagement really does make an immediate difference. I was also surprised to see that there is apparently a second Eshonai interlude in that same set. I hope that's true at least here, and possibly for other interlude sets as well. Yes, yes I did.

So, I think we should be paying more attention to what Pattern says (and, significantly, doesn't say). In particular, these sections stuck out to me: He can sense the "lie" in her thoughts about how stormlight works. Remember, he likes "good lies," which to him means "true lies." Light makes shadow. Truth makes lies. In this case I'm not sure if he's sensing Shallan telling lies to herself or simply that the truth is hidden right in front of her. Pattern likes truths that were hidden, and can tell when Shallan sees one. Nothing in their conversation struck him as an elegant obfuscation, nor a clever illumination. So everything that was said (or at least Shallan's understanding of them) are either mundanely true or uninterestingly false. I suspect that Pattern will be very enlightening (and frustrating) as the book progresses.

I'm not buying the Nightwatcher is a spren nonsense Jasnah keeps dropping. Seems like a serious case of misinformation to me.

My favorite was this exchange between Syl and Kal:

Wow, great stuff! But what's so incredible about chapter 7 that it didn't make the preview? What spoilers were too juicy to throw our way? Edit: I'm expecting a Shallan flashback there.

As far as the economics go, there have been lots of good points already about counterfeiting, soulcasting, etc. In particular I agree with the idea that using spheres for indoor lighting expands their utility and appeal greatly. Regarding the magic and radiants, though, I can see the KR actively encouraging the use of spheres as currency. There are few things more ubiquitously carried than money, so if you want to be sure of access to stormlight wherever you go, what better way than to ensure everyone you see will have some in their pocket or safe-pouch? This especially works if people treat dun spheres with suspicion, because then there is a system in place to regularly infuse spheres for mundane reasons, and you don't have to dedicate your own KR resources to monitoring the stormlight and gem supply. If the current gem/sphere supply is any indication, it seems that from a magical perspective there are plenty of stormlight reservoirs to go around. And except during the Weeping, they are refillable every few days.

Just something to add on the general Q&A discussion: While I agree that it gets old listening to the same questions or advice over and over, it wasn't too long ago that I was the one asking those irksome dumb questions. I went to a local WoK release party when Brandon happened to be passing through my city. I had a genuinely interesting question to ask, but when I got the chance I worried that maybe I should ask something of more generic interest so the rest of the crowd could get something out of it...so I piped up with "Who's your favorite character?" Inane, I know. I'm pretty sure there were a few groans from the other people there. But after that someone sitting near me directed me to the old TWG site, where I was introduced to the cosmere, etc. I guess what I'm saying is don't be too hard on the drabs who haven't caught the vision yet. I would say that if a given Q&A is a wide audience, go right ahead and stack it full of cosmere questions, but try to make them ones that could trigger someone to go look up what you were asking about--i.e. more character motivations, big ideas, and important background, less nitpicky details. Just my 2 cents.

I agree that "drooling" refers to Jezrien. First, note that Darkness could very well have been speaking metaphorically. He could just be saying, "Jez is senile up in those storms and doing absolutely nothing useful." This interpretation is kind of funny to me because "drooling" might be an oblique reference to the amount of rain that gets dumped by the storms. Oooo, insult! However, I've been been thinking that there are a few ways for his body to still be around to drool mindlessly. One option is the already-invoked different-and-weird-things-happen-when-you-only-hold-part-of-a-shard idea. This seems unlikely to me. Another possibility comes to mind: Remember that Vin and Sazed took up their shards via the physical realm, while Kelsier did so via the cognitive. What if Jezrien was looking into Shadesmar when Honor died, and he reached out to grab what was left? In this scenario it is possible that Jez's mind could end up directing the shardic pieces while his body got left behind. I'm basing this idea on the interpretation that while everything exists in all 3 realms, spren (and dead crewleaders) are primarily cognitive, while humans (and presumably Heralds) are mostly physical. I think it's reasonable to assume that actions would have a different effect if you are out of your element. Brandon has said it's possible to actually go to Shadesmar, or to simply peer in with your mind. Also, since I didn't see anyone else respond: No, it's not stated overtly in the books. The relevant WoB quotes are here and here. Also worth looking at the coppermind page on Kelsier.

I think you are in good company here. I strongly suspect most of my speculations are wrong. Speaking of which, here is another one: Even though I'm not convinced of the need to divide up the chart between Honor and Cultivation, I still look for patterns that might work. One that occurred to me today was to give Honor all the odd #s and Cultivation all the evens, so that they alternate around the ring. I don't think I've heard this version before, though I doubt it's really new here. A couple things this does that other divisions don't: Both sets of 5 have access to all the surges Every connecting line between orders is now a bond between Honor and Cultivation, making the whole magic system a link between the two of them (or at least their spren). Note: bold means I really like this part. I'm not sold on the division, but this is an element I approve of. ...and you know it's a good discussion when the topic originator gets totally distracted from what he meant to write about. Maybe I'll eventually get back to actually doing the spren-type speculation I intended to do in the OP

Sorry. Is there a way to move it myself? I don't see that option.

Men can read glyphs, which is what the writing was in. Alethi script would have been another matter. Also, you have some good points on the alignment of spren. I'm not sure I'm convinced yet (I currently still think cryptics are Cultivation) but I'll keep my eyes open for evidence that you're right.

In the new Shallan chapter for WoR, Jasnah strongly implies that each order does in fact have a corresponding spren-type. This idea has been suggested by many, but this is the first thing from the text that comes so close to confirmation. As an honorspren, Syl "binds things", which is a good descriptor for the abilities granted by the dual surges of the Windrunners. Similarly, the cryptics or "liespren" make sense for the dual surges of the Lightweavers, specifically transformation (turning a thing into something it wasn't) and illumination (disguising a thing as something it isn't). Incidentally, these two orders are directly opposite each other on the chart, as you might expect from the implied polarization between their spren types. A thought on this: If we take these as the "centers" of the Honor/Cultivation divide, then rather than splitting the double-eye left and right it makes Honor's orders include #9 (Stonewarden) through #3 (Dustbringer) and gives Cultivation #4 (Edgedancer) through #8 (unknown). This matches what we know of Wyndle from the Lift interlude. So, the question is, can we infer spren types for the other orders from their respective surges? Here is the latest chart for reference. Also remember Jasnah's division of Honor's spren = emotions, Cultivation's spren = natural forces. ( It's late here and I need to get to some other tasks, so I'll save my own speculations for a later post. What are your thoughts?

I have to say that "liespren" makes loads more sense to me than truthspren ever did. If I hadn't been so late to the forums I would definitely argued against that one. (Though my name for them was "stalkerspren" and would not have been adopted by anyone.) Two thoughts One thought on this: (I moved the other to its own post) If the cryptics are in charge of Shadesmar, then no wonder the nature of the place is obfuscated and unknown. I doubt we can thank revisionist Vorin historians for all the misinformation or lost details.

Thanks, Peter! Looking forward to the announcement.

One of the things I loved about the WoK release was the "epic bookmark" that came out. Obviously this is up to Tor's marketing dept, but what do you think is the likelihood of a similar WoR bookmark being made? Anyone know if it was a successful thing for them? Also, I know I got my bookmark at a signing, but that was serendipitous timing. I doubt I'll be near one this time around. Was that the only way to get one when WoK came out? If there are promotional release materials like a bookmark or whatever, is there a good way to acquire them from non-tour cities?

Good quotes, Shardlet. I hadn't known about Vibrance--I thought it was odd that there were only 3 corners labeled. I agree with several who've already posted, that's definitely Nalthis. Also, thanks for the planet list, Aether. It helps to have them all in one place. Working from the assumption that cognitive and physical topology are correlated (not necessarily true but it makes sense to me), I would guess that Braise and Ashyn account for two of the elements on there. Vapors fits remarkably well with the disease motif of Ashyn, and Broken Sky is an easy Odium association for me even though we don't know anything about that world yet. All the reasoning for Densities so far seems forced. I can't make a connection to "a world we know."

Agreed. I'm withholding judgment on Shallan until we see more of her in WoR, but quite frankly I think Renarin deserves better.

Thanks for bringing this up. Until now I hadn't been aware of the WoB that the expanses refer to other worlds, at least one of which we've seen before. Just by association, Vapors makes me think of Breath, so Nalthis. Alternatively it could be the mists, so Scadrial (as Moogle points out above). Broken Sky actually sounds like Final Empire era Scadrial to me, but I doubt that's the case. Especially since, chronologically, Harmony already fixed that whole too-close-to-the-sun problem. (Although, given that very little information has made it across from Shadesmar since the Recreance, we may be dealing with centuries-old information anyway.) I suspect this is a world we haven't seen yet. Densities... I don't know. I'm probably going about this the wrong way. Viewed from Shadesmar, it's likely that the feel of the ideas, rather than any physical manifestations, contribute to the name.

Even the first time through, I read the "distant thunder" bit as hinting that Cenn was about to have a death-quote moment and his consciousness was easing between realms. After multiple re-reads I still think this is the case: he can hear the storm beyond, nothing to do with the horse or with surgebinding. Compare this deathquote (emphasis mine): Also, this one (emphasis mine):

Thanks for the reference, I was having trouble finding that. It's still ambiguous whether there are non-gemheart gems to be mined, but the context of that quote suggests that maybe they do exist? She's talking about making fake marble deposits to mine and says you can't make a fake gem deposit, possibly implying that one might expect to find gem deposits in the ground.... I'm not convinced either way. I would like the gemheart-only idea to be true because it would fit well with the magic system and have additional cool implications, but I can't talk myself into either position yet.

I've been reading some of the other threads on gemstone economics and properties. They have sparked a few intriguing questions for me about the world and magic. First question: Do all gemstones on Roshar come from gemhearts? I didn't think so at first, but I can't recall any mention in TWoK of mining gems. The Davar quarries are for marble. It could be that all gems are harvested from large chulls or other large animals. Extant big gems may be "left-overs" from the greatshells of past generations (thought to be extinct after Aimia was razed). We know from WoB that gemhearts are a sort of leak from the spiritual realm into the physical. Given that, I might go so far as to suggest that even if a gem were mined out of the rock on Roshar, it would not hold stormlight the same way that gemheart-sourced gems do. Second question: Are gemstones immune to soulcasting? Large gemstones are extremely valuable, yet (as far as we know) nobody has ever created them via soulcasting. If they are the same kind of minerals we find on earth, that makes them essentially rocks. That means soulcasting them should be possible using Topaz, associated with the essence of rock/stone. Amethyst could handle any trace metals for color, and diamond could do quartz/glass/crystal. In combination that should be all the qualities of every gem. Even if the fabrial soulcasters can't do it, I doubt the chemistry of the transformation is beyond a talented surgebinder. So why don't we see boulder-sized emeralds/diamonds/whatever? Such gems would be invaluable for storing huge amounts of stormlight*, or simply for getting rich (disregarding inflation). If the Davars tried this with marble, surely someone else would have thought of it using gems. That leads me to conclude that there is something special about gemstones magically that prevents them from being soulcast. And it can't just be the ones infused with stormlight at the time, though I'm sure that's a factor. So it makes sense to say soulcasting cannot create gems from other materials, nor interconvert from one gem type to another. (Nor, presumably, turn gems into anything else, though I'm less sure of that interpretation. It may be the destination material that matters more than the source.) *Yes, I know that the cut rather than the size of gem may correlate to total stormlight capacity, but if you cut said giant gem into a bunch of little ones, you could get the same effect.

I've been unable to follow any links to the TWG archive section. Every time I try it gives me an error: Unknown column 'add_deny' in 'field list' or Unknown column 'b.num_topics' in 'field list' Does anyone else get these errors? I haven't tried it on a second computer yet, so it may be a browser/OS problem (the one I'm on is old and slowly becoming incompatible with some sites).