Metacognition

Personally, I think the day was a success. We got a lot of information out of it, due to how the voting took place and how it was concluded. It has at least helped me narrow down a few suspects and I doubt I'm the only one. For tonight, I'm going to ask that the person with the Lifeless Commands not use them yet. If they don't use them, then the Pahn Kahl will be the only ones doing any killing tonight, so if a strawman or something actually finds someone in the act of killing, then we know we have a Pahn Kahl on our hands. If I had the Commands, I'd be waiting until I had a bit more information before targeting people for death, like I did last game. As far as my breath goes, I've already sent in the order to Claincy. You can kill me now, Pahn Kahl, but you'll get nothing more out of it except a dead Hallendren. Cog walked reluctantly to the meeting spot. He didn't want to do this, but he didn't see any other way. You'll survive, Cog. He thought. With a little luck, you'll be able to get your breath back in no time. For now, you need the information more than you need the breath. He reached the room that the Idrian Ambassador had been killed in. It was still sealed shut, but Cog was prepared. Locks were a simple mechanism for him and he easily managed to pick the lock. Inside the room, the ambassador's body had already been removed. The only evidence that a death had occurred here was the discolored section of floor that had been drained. The only light was the moonlight streaming in from the open window. The room was cloaked in ribbons of shadow and Cog thought his acquaintance had decided not to show when suddenly one of the shadows moved. "Are you ready?" Cog swallowed down his fear and nodded. "You promise you're going to find whoever did this for me and stop this from continuing to happen, right?" "I've already told you I will." "Yes, but I still need to hear it. I just need to assure myself. Please." The shadow sighed. "Very well. I promise you that your Breath will not go to waste. I will hunt down these so-called assassins and keep you informed of my progress. Happy?" "No, but it needs to be done. I won't see my home be torn asunder just because the Pahn Kahl have a score to settle. My life to yours. My breath become yours." The last bit came out in a rush and Cog immediately felt drained. Every other time he had used his breath, he was distracted by the wonder of a new invention. He didn't have that this time and the difference was distinct. "There, it is done. Now if you'll please. I need a moment before heading home." The shadow left and Cog sank onto the bed, feeling numb. It was some hours later before his slumped and weary form made its way back to the shop.

Cog finally finished his studies and had come to the conclusion that only one group could be behind the killings, the Pahn Kahl. After their attempt to overthrow the Hallendren government had failed, it seemed they were again trying to sabotage any hopes of peace. Unsettling, yes, but it was good to know that his own people weren't likely behind it and it was one mystery solved. He finally left his home to accusations against not only himself, but of other Hallendrens. There was obviously a lot of hate for them right now, due to the simple-mindedness of some people and their jumping to conclusions. These people were all pointed in the wrong direction. They seemed to think that they would be able to find the Pahn Kahl all on their own (if they suspected the double cross at all) when they needed to be working together. It seemed there was nothing to be done about it. The Idrians were out for blood and rather than clean their own house, they decided to focus on the other. "Foolish," Cog thought. "No wonder peace is so far off. It's like dealing with children; unruly children that would rather kill off those that are trying to help them instead of sharing." Cog would still be giving up his breath, one way or another. In some rights, he kind of hoped they would kill him. At least then he wouldn't have to suffer the inability to bring his creations to life during the time it took him to buy another breath.

Cog watched as the crowd started to fall silent. Was it shock that drove most of them into such a catatonic state or could they sense the "wrongness" over the Idrian Ambassador's death. Hallendrens tended to be a flashy lot, true, but this just seemed too blatant. Cog had already come to the conclusion that this was a set up, but by whom?!? The only thing he knew for sure was that this would breed even worse relations between the Idrians and the Hallendrens if allowed to continue, but who would that benefit? Cog shook his head. Politics. He never did pay much attention to them and now it was coming back to bite him. This puzzle would probably solve itself if he had a better grip of the politics. As such, he decided to go see what books and news he could find. Maybe a history book or two for good measure. It wouldn't be a lot of fun studying, but Cog was fine with that. The true prize was always in the solving.

You're giving away my secrets! That means you're evil! Hey, I got to get the conversation going somehow, or everyone would sit around RPing their characters and being too paranoid to start calling people out. The Pahn Kahl aren't likely to do it as that would seem suspicious and most other people won't because they don't want to look suspicious either. What I've done is get the ball rolling and start giving us something to work with. There wasn't anyone else stepping forward now was there. By all means, suspect if you want, but once I'm killed and I turn up innocent, at least now you'll have something to go off of!

You can't have it both ways, Summon; either I'm a lying Pahn Kahl or I'm innocent. If I were Pahn Kahl, that would also be a ploy that could only work once and even then, due to the level of paranoia, probably not very well either. If you've come to that conclusion, then I'm sure most other people have as well. You see, it would be foolish for the Pahn Kahl to put forth this plan already as the gain wouldn't be enough to warrant the loss of one of their own. This way, I can at least do some good for the group before I die. I think that you've been more suspicious than I have yet, but that's because I'm aware of my own innocence. Dyrii, even if you tell me that your OOC stuff will always be truthful, I'm not going to believe that. Sorry, I'm far too paranoid for that. I get what you're saying, but now that the game has started, I'm not taking anything at face value! You couldn't make a strong enough claim OOC and get me to believe it just on your word alone. I don't think you have to worry too much about people taking things written OOC at more value just because someone is using a different color.

Jeo, all Idrians only start with one breath. You announcing it just makes me think that you're trying to appear more innocent. Perhaps that's because you're trying to hide something else? Myself, I have just cause in the need to try to survive. If the Pahn Kahl don't get anything out of targeting me then maybe I'll survive long enough to be a threat to them later, which is why I'm doing it publicly. That way they know they won't get anything out of it. Dyrii, you just put to not use OOC to try to make your information seem more important in OOC. Hello, Pot. How's Kettle doing? Does something above worry you just a bit that you're wanting to start stirring up confusion already? Perhaps because you know I'm telling the truth and you don't want us to already have a Returned that doesn't have to worry about getting an additional breath? Cog watched the crowd that was milling around the Green Potato, trying to figure out which pieces were out of place. That wasn't really fair, these were people, not parts in a larger machine, but that was the way Cog always thought. Once you understood where a device was faulty, it was typically pretty easy to find out what needed to be fixed and as Cog watched the crowd, it was obvious that there was something broken on the larger scale of things, but he couldn't tell what. "My, this will be an epic puzzle," he thought.

"Fly," Cog said in an urgent, yet clear whisper. His only breath drained out of him and into the odd bird-looking toy he had sitting on the table. It had been painted a bright blue color to match one that Cog had seen in the jungle once, but the color leeched out of it as his breath entered it. The toy twitched, the long bladed arms starting to move up and down, but it didn't lift off of the table. "You're having difficulties getting lift, my friend," Cog mused. "Here, allow me to help." He picked up the toy and then gently tossed it like a dart. Unlike a dart, the toy amazingly stayed in the air! It flew in a huge circle around Cog's head. His smile, as he watched the toy fly lazily in circles, could only be described as beatific. It had taken him what seemed like a countless hours of research to realize that bird bones must be hollow for them to be able to fly and to do the same with his machine. Then there had been the tests with wing size and tilt and the tail feathers and... well, there had been a lot of things that had needed adjustment, but after all that time and hard work, he had done it. He had heard a lot of people describe being a Drab as a disturbing sensation, but Cog never felt that way when he was watching one of his inventions work. He felt a sense of peace and unity during these times; when it was just him and his puzzles. His revelry was interrupted by the forest green note with gold lettering sitting next to him. Evidently he had been chosen, due to his skill and location, to represent all of Hallendren's Craftsmen at the Peace Meeting taking place in town. Of course, that meeting was off to a rocky start, what with the death of the Idrian representative. He wondered if he had really been killed by another Hallendren or if that was just what it was supposed to look like. Cog wasn't all that fond of politics and as long as both the Hallendren and the Idrians left him alone, he didn't really care what they did. Still, this new wrinkle in the situation made the entire process into a huge puzzle and if there was one thing Cog couldn't resist, it was a good puzzle. With a sigh, he stood up and caught the flying toy on its way past. "Your breath to mine," he said, drawing back his breath. He then gently set the toy back on the table. It would be one of those that he gave away. Somehow, after being infused and drained of color like that, it would never hold the colors just right again. That didn't bother him. He loved seeing the wonder on the faces of the children when he gave them his latest creation. He probably did it this way specifically so he could give them away. He grabbed his overcoat, a surprisingly reserved tan color because when you worked so closely around Idrians, you learned not to offend their sensibilities too much, and headed out the door. Hopefully this puzzle would be worth it. Yes that is accurate, I only have one breath and no role and I highly doubt that the Pahn Kahl will let me survive long this time, so in the name of helping out against them, I'm willing to give up my breath to someone. If any Returned would like to contact me, I'll wait until tonight to give my breath so I can do so privately and you won't have to worry about needing a breath to survive. This will make me a drab and not a threat to anyone, let alone the Pahn Kahl, as they won't even have the chance to steal my one breath should they try to kill me. If you want my breath, contact me and give me a reason why you deserve it and I will give it to someone either today or tonight.

Aw, I was just coming in here to announce that Forger starts at 600, as I just hit it. At least that's another one we can put in bold.

There are a few factors that we need to consider before starting 2 games. First is the number of players we can reliably account for in each game. At the low end, we would want 16 players per game. With the numbers we have right now, if we staggered them, we might get there, but not enough to be able to reliably state that would be the case. We only have 30-ish in this game now and sign ups have been open for awhile. Along with the numbers, you have to take into account that some players will go inactive, so if you only have 16 players and 3 go inactive, that only leaves 13 players in a game. That's not a lot. Another factor is GMs. Right now we have only 6 GMs on the list and some of them won't be able to run their games until later (like SirVarrock mentioned). If we ran two games, we'd go through that list much quicker, so we'd want to be able to count on more GMs to be able to step up and oversee games before we start running multiple games. We'll also want some leeway in the number of players that decide not to play. We have a lot this game, but perhaps some people will take a break from the next game and some people (like Herowannabe) are done after a few games. If we can't support multiple games due to retention, then that's another factor to take into account. Besides, these larger games are a lot of fun due to the sheer number of factors and players you have to account for. If we can solve these issues, I have no problems with multiple games running. There are a lot of benefits to it, like giving players that are killed off early another game to be able to play in rather than them having to wait until the game ends to play again. The Google Docs are fun and I like using them so that those players can still have fun and be apart of the game, but I'm sure they'd rather be playing again. @Bartbug: You'll want to have yours ready by the time Claincy's game ends. That way, if Logan isn't ready, you'll be good to go and don't have to scramble. So you've got some time yet, but I don't recommend putting it off for too long!

I figured I'd get a hold of him well before Game 4 finishes. That way he'll have enough time to prepare if he hasn't already and if not, Bartbug should still have plenty of time. I'll let everyone (especially the GMs) know well in advance. My suggestion for all GMs; try to have your game basically ready to go one GM ahead of you. There is always the chance that someone will drop out or that they'll not be ready to go and want to step back in the list. So right now, Logan and Bartbug should be finalizing their games and getting it ready for example. Not to worry though, if push comes to shove and no one is ready, I'll run something. I have no idea what yet, but I promise you I'll think of something should that be necessary!

I'm partial to buxom virgins thrown into volcanoes. Yeah, I know it's cliché, but they're so hot afterwards! Besides, human sacrifice is kinda my thing, since I started this game here. If you don't have any of those just lying around, I also accept upvotes, so one way or the other, you should be good.

No, it makes perfect sense, but we're still working with shoulds and coulds and wouldn'ts and such. If we expect a certain role to be played a certain way, then there's a good chance that it will get played in a different way. Take Fain from Gamma's WoT game. If I were in that role, I wouldn't convert someone until it was the same as effectively killing someone from the other factions. If I survived that long already then I've got a good shot of winning the game. If I don't, then my faction probably wouldn't have helped too much anyways. I doubt that's the idea that he had in mind with the role though or how it would be played. Just saying, if you go into the role only expecting it to be used a certain way, there's a good chance that it will be used differently. In the end, my view point doesn't matter though; if you feel like you've thought it through and you like how it plays, then by all means use it. It's not bad by any means and its benefits balance out its drawbacks. Like I said before, I like the role, so if it fits and fills your needs, don't let me stop you.

*Sniff* I'm so proud of you all. You're becoming uber-paranoid so quickly! It seems like just yesterday that huge PM groups and blind trust was a thing and now it's gone. You all just grow up so fast. It's true what they say, cherish the early, innocent years, because they'll be over in a blink of an eye.

Like I said, my biggest concern with them having to out themselves is that not only are they known, but it would be easy enough for the Hallendren to find out who the Idrian Spy is as well. The Idrians have no counter to the Hallendren Spy like that. That means that the Pahl Kahl and the Hallendren would be able to find out two roles within a single situation. On top of that, the Idrian Monk can't know for sure that the person they're saving is innocent or not without some other role telling them that they are. More than likely they're not going to use their ability unless they're sure, but I like to account for every possible situation that could come up. It's a minor qualm though, so if you think that's a fair trade off, I'm fine with it. I just see ways to abuse it and if I can see them, then it's possible for it to come up in game.

Absolutely no such thing, Joe. I am your dealer and I tell you that there is no such thing as an addict to this game. You can trust me, right?

I agree with Porridge about the risk. You're already losing breath. If the Lifeless protects you until it's used, then I could see it involving some risk to keep it hidden (I kept the UnSnapped at 10% and we all saw how many of them finally Snapped in Game 2, so 10% should be fine). Besides, if you allow the Lifeless to protect you against a wide variety to things, then someone might wind up wasting their breath on a Lifeless that only protects them against say, buying more breath or retrieving breath that you could retrieve the next night. This system also favors those who are capable of being on during the time of write ups, which I think is unfair. At one breath, the second someone dies, someone will scoop up the body and make it a lifeless for two reasons: Because it could come in handy and it gives you a bargaining chip. To deny other players the use of the Lifeless. The Pahn Kahl could just make sure that the second that the write up goes live, they send in a PM (they even knew the targets of night kills ahead of time) and create the Lifeless so that no one else could. I think you're going to have a difficult time balancing this one. I like the idea of needing a body before it can be done. Definitely keep that, IMO, but we need to find another alternative to first come, first serve. How about this: A Lifeless costs at least 1 breath to make and you need a body before you can do so. Each night that someone dies, players can bid breath on a body. The player with the highest bid invests that number of breaths into the Lifeless and has command of it. Everyone else keeps their breaths, but loses their action for the night. In the event of a tie, no one gets the body and they may try again another night. The creation of a Lifeless will be revealed within the write up, but it will not reveal who made the Lifeless. The Lifeless will protect you and only you from any action taken against you, but if used, it is revealed as a Lifeless and joins the other Lifeless in the barracks. There is a 10% chance every night that it is not used that someone will stumble across the Lifeless and reveal it anyways. This way, the Pahn Kahl can't just pick it up to keep others from being able to use it, it costs more if you really feel like you need it, and there is always the possibility that you could waste your night action for no gain as well. And if the final option happens, then there will still be the body there to be picked up the next night (and likely another as well), so the chances of someone getting a winning bid with a lower cost increase with time, but keeps the number of them down as well. Everything else seems pretty good. I like the Idrian Monk, but I'd let them keep it private. If they have to make it public, then the Hallendren just have to pile onto the chosen target and the one of them who doesn't is the Idrian Spy. Maybe send out a PM telling all Idrians whenever the Monk uses their ability and if they don't switch their vote, their vote automatically doesn't count and shows up that way in the write up? Bartbug, purchasing breath would take a night action, so they're already losing their action to possibly increase their breath and if enough people are going drab, we'll notice well ahead of time, so personally, I think every other night is fine. If everyone is trying to get more breaths every second night, then we're effectively giving the Pahn Kahl a free night to waltz in and kill whomever they want anyways. I am a bit confused by the D6 and equal or lower than bit. How could a drab get any back, considering the die doesn't have a 0 face? I think it means equal or higher, but then the Idrians could easily gain another breath or two fairly quickly.

With 48 hour cycles, I don't think start time is a huge priority, at least not in my opinion. If you can't get on sometime within 48 hours to see what all has happened, I'd be surprised. For myself, the start time could be somewhere around 6AM and I'd be fine with it (I'm not a morning person, so this is the best example I can give of a time that would be horribly inconvenient for me). I'd just catch up on everything once I did get on and go from there. That's the beauty of this game; due to the long periods between turns, no one needs to feel left out no matter where they live. The person we should be the most concerned with making it as easy as possible on is Claincy. He has his hands full trying to organize everything, PM everyone, and do write ups. When I tried doing the 36 hour turns, it got to be too much and we had problems with getting write ups done on time and I missed PMing people a few times. My point is, it might be convenient for us to be able to be online and around when each turn finishes, but it is imperative that we keep Claincy from going insane trying to meet our requests. Considering no one knows which role they're going to get yet, if you have plans for this weekend, we won't lynch you just because you didn't speak up until later in the turn. Or at least I won't!

The list is in order of who signed up first. If someone wants to go ahead of someone on the list and they have the okay of those ahead of them, then by all means, line jumping is doable. That said, as of right now, Logan would be the next in line for GMing. I'm not quite sure what you mean about using someone else's game. If you mean do they need to come up with their own roles and such, no. They can use the roles from other games. That's basically what Peng did except he added some other roles he created. If you mean using someone else's setting and roles and the whole nine yards, I'd refrain from doing that. Not only would it not be any fun, it would be unfair to the previous GM anyways. Hopefully that answers your questions?

Sorry, Swimmingly. Here, have an upvote. That will make everything better, right? Like I said, looking at it this way really favors those of us who are newer to the forums as there are a lot more people that visit the forum now so we have a lot more people to upvote us. I was just curious and felt that you guys would like seeing it as well.

So out of fun (and since I never noticed the top 50 before), I calculated the reputation per post of everyone within the top 50. Obviously, this works in the favor of those that are newer to the site, but I was surprised by a few numbers. For example: I expected Mr. Sanderson himself to have a huge count, but I never realized exactly how little he posted here! Only 61 posts! Either way, I thought you guys might have fun with it and it has nothing to do with the fact that I actually have a higher count than Peter. Nope, nothing to see there, even if that amazes me and will cost me in the long run! Sanderson: 36.44/post PeterAhlstrom: 2.45/post Kurkistan: 0.34/post Chaos: 0.31/post FeatherWriter: 0.93/post Windrunner: 0.43/post Argent: 0.46/post Swimmingly: 0.50/post Moogle: 0.50/post Shardlet: 0.32/post Awesomeness Summoned: 1.23/post Metacognition: 2.53/post WeiryWriter: 0.48/post Shivertongue: 0.63/post Observer: 0.38/post Zas687: 0.33/post Natans: 0.55/post Gamma Fiend: 0.74/post Aether: 0.38/post Outis: 0.35/post Phantom Monstrosity: 0.32/post KChan: 0.22/post Eveorjoy: 0.77/post Quiver: 0.67/post Hoser: 0.34/post Bloodfalcon: 0.47/post Lightflame: 1.86/post Seloun: 1.26/post Voidus: 0.24/post Eerongal: 0.18/post Gloom: 0.36/post Joe ST: 0.19/post Lord Claincy Ffnord: 0.51/post The Rooster: 0.80/post Jasonpenguin: 0.89/post Satsuoni: 0.25/post Harakeke: 2.24/post Morsk: 0.47/post Serendipity: 0.83/post Bartbug: 0.46/post FirstRainbowRose: 0.44/post Inkthinker: 0.85/post Happyman: 0.22/post Delightful: 0.59/post Aminar: 0.30/post CarzyRioter: 0.16/post Name_Here: 0.26/post The Count: 0.58/post PorridgeBrick: 0.47/post Mailliw73: 0.24/post

Fair Warning: I will leave this open until Game 4 starts. After that, it will be locked like the rest of the games, so everyone feel free to discuss this game (including those that have died), as it was officially over after Peng's last post. If you have any comments, (FRIENDLY) trash talking, questions, or anything else you'd like to say about this game, get them in while you can!

It's still the same situation of the rest of the group having to hunt down the Cult Leader and I think that's a bit unfair to those that have been converted. Then again, it adds a lot of tension and importance to any situation where the Cult Leader comes under suspicion. After some thought, I'd probably make it so that Fain can only convert so many people and from there, their only goal is to survive. They get to retain their powers, but they don't get a night kill and their numbers should be less than that of the starting Darkfriends count. That way, there's only so much damage Fain could do and after converted, they need to try to hide in the shadows and try to get others lynched, as that's their only way to kill off other players. It almost makes them a secondary villager faction that can't be too blatant without getting themselves killed.

Your character works out quite well as the main view point, since you actually survived the entire game. I actually had to go back and check to see if you did! I think he comes off a little too clean sometimes, a little too knowing, but you need something of a good guy to give the story the tension, so it works. I think this is an excellent start and I hope you continue it. Feel free to use my write ups as guidelines, but I like how you handled Grayv's death by storytelling it out from Gamble's perspective and I'd suggest doing most of them that way. You'd have to do a lot more supposition about the night deaths, but you already did some of that with Darnam's investigation of Jason's death, so I think you'd be able to handle it just fine. Not every detail of the night deaths needs to be known to tell a compelling story. In fact, I think it would add to the suspense of the story if those deaths weren't revealed exactly. It would make the Spiked (which I love how you explained them btw) seem all that more dark and mysterious. Overall, this gets my two thumbs up, so keep writing!

I don't have very long, but I want to thank the Spiked for not killing me, even though I was on the chopping block for practically every night! Also, that was an especially devious trick by getting Asp to leave the PM group. I seriously thought it was just a mistake, so to find out that it was intentional was amazing. That was a move of pure brilliance. Bravo. I'll check everything else out later, but as promised, here's the link to the Doc where I copied down The Trust's PMs. I figured it would make a neat counter point to the Spiked Doc, since we actually had the chance to have a large conversation! The Trust

The cultist style roles are very difficult to balance fairly because if you don't kill the Cult Leader, it doesn't really matter how many of them you kill. You effectively have the same situation as Game 2, except you're adding in other factions as well, so yeah, Fain is a bit overpowered! My solution to this is to limit the number of conversions they can do. If you can balance out the three factions as far as numbers go, you would have a benchmark to limit Fain's conversions. For example: Let's say you have 25 players. Typically, ~5 should be darkfriends, but you're also adding in another group. So you cut the number of darkfriends down to 4 and add in Fain with at most 3 conversions. That way, he can't just take over the darkfriends if he hits one right away. This would still be a little unfair to the Villagers, so I'd try to boost their ranks with Roles, but I think this would still be fairly balanced, especially if you don't give Fain and/or his followers a night kill. @Wyrnhero: By the time someone gets to the point where they can afford the sword, there should be a few groups and alliances formed. Nightblood wasn't created by just one person, it was a group effort. In the same way, I suspect that whomever creates one of these swords would have others around that could help provide additional breaths. Of course, the ones who have the easiest time of this is the Pahn Kahl, but due to the alliances, it'll be more available than you think, IMO.