Haelbarde

I don't know what to think anymore... Alv was right, he never said that Instant Regret was a dagger, and I honestly believe he would have used it if it had been. So I retract that earlier statement. I... need to calm down and settle myself before I can attempt to be at all objective and useful. But I'll remove my vote from Alv.

Vote Tally Alv (4): Bard, Striker, Hael, Fura Bard (1): Drake Araris (1): Fifth May as well start the vote tally early. I strongly believe it's worth lynching Alv as soon as possible, or even better, killing by dagger if anyone has one available. He's dangerous to keep alive purely for his experience and ability to advise the other corrupt senators on their game strategy. I won't be moving my vote elsewhere. I need to head off and sleep now, but try and in the morning have a think through the mess that was the end of last cycle...

Alv claimed to have a dagger named Instant Regret. So they still have access to at least one dagger, before retrieving any further daggers. I believe Alv was hoping to get his hands on my dagger after the RayOfSunshine death, though I guess there was only a 33% chance he'd get it instead of Rae or Fura.

Alright, I didn't die, so that means I have some info to share. Sticking Point is my dagger. It was the dagger that started in the black market - I started with 6 boxings, so spent 3 to get an item and lucked out with the Dagger. I was going to kill Ray of Sunshine with it. It got stolen with an unnamed warrant. That it was confiscated means that either Elbereth or RayOfSunshine must have used the Warrant on me, before getting lynched/killed. Two players knew I had the dagger - Elbereth and Alvron. Seems likely that Elbereth stole the dagger, before being killed by Alvron. Now, JoinTheAlleyverse. Last cycle I spent my other 3 boxings to get Snipexe to target RayOfSunshine with the dagger. The action succeeded, but no kill happened. This is because the redirect item will try redirect the specified item first, then just redirect something else. Alvron claimed that Snipexe passed the dagger to him, meaning the dagger no longer was in Snipexe's posession, but as he had the warrant, the bribe still went through, and he used the Warrant on RayOfSunshine. I assume this is then the warrant named Tearable. @Snipexe, can you confirm any of these details? Anyways, this means that Alvron was possibly the last to have the Alleyverse dagger which ended up in the black market, having killed Elbereth. Vote Tally Gaea (1): Fifth, Elandera{1} Rae (1): Drake{1}, Striker{1}, Ray Wilson (1): Araris, Alv{1} Fura (0): Fura{1}, Elbereth{1} Alv (3): Elandera{2}, Striker{2}, Elbereth{2}, Elandera{4}, Striker{4}, Bard{1} Shqueeves (0): Elandera{3} RayOfSunshine (3): Hael{1}, Fura{2}, Alv{2}, Striker{3}, Rae Bard (1): Drake{2} RayOfSunshine (3): Fura, Alv, Rae Alv (3): Elbereth, Elandera, Striker Rae (1): Ray Wilson (1): Araris Gaea (1): Fifth Bard (1): Drake Elbereth's vote was moved from Alv to Wilson. Likely done by Alv for meta reasons. RayOfSunshine's vote was also moved to Wilson from Arraenae. Alv Edit: I'm now very annoyed. First Burnt dies, then Elbereth. @Elbereth - I guess our team up is going to have to wait for another game... :'(

Three votes after the end of cycle. Isn't this interesting... Guys, you've got to aim for 20 seconds before hand...

Sorry - RayOfSunshine. Vote Tally Gaea (1): Fifth, Elandera{1} Rae (2): Drake, Striker{1}, Ray Wilson (1): Araris, Alv{1} Fura (0): Fura{1}, Elbereth{1} Alv (3): Elandera{2}, Striker{2}, Elbereth{2}, Elandera{4}, Striker{4}, Bard{1} Shqueeves (0): Elandera{3} RayOfSunshine (3): Hael{1}, Fura{2}, Alv{2}, Striker{3}, Rae RayOfSunshine (3): Fura, Alv, Rae Alv (3): Elbereth, Elandera, Striker Rae (2): Drake, Ray Wilson (1): Araris Gaea (1): Fifth

I can take a vote of Ray Vote Tally Gaea (1): Fifth, Elandera{1} Rae (2): Drake, Striker{1}, Ray Wilson (1): Araris, Alv{1} Fura (0): Fura{1}, Elbereth{1} Alv (4): Elandera{2}, Striker{2}, Elbereth{2}, Elandera{4}, Striker{4}, Bard Shqueeves (0): Elandera{3} RayOfSunshine (3): Hael{1}, Fura{2}, Alv{2}, Striker{3}, Rae @Young Bard You're up.

Alright, is this the vote tally? Vote Tally Gaea (1): Fifth, Elandera{1} Rae (2): Drake, Striker{1}, Ray Wilson (1): Araris, Alv{1} Fura (0): Fura{1}, Elbereth{1} Alv (4): Elandera{2}, Striker{2}, Elbereth{2}, Elandera{4}, Striker{4}, Bard Shqueeves (0): Elandera{3} RayOfSunshine (4): Hael, Fura{2}, Alv{2}, Striker{3}, Rae

You missed Striker's vote on Alv I think? Think that makes it: Vote Tally Gaea (1): Fifth, Elandera{1} Rae (2): Drake, Striker{1}, Ray Wilson (2): Araris, Alvron Fura (2): Fura, Elbereth, Alv (1): Elandera{2}, Striker{2} Shqueeves (1): Elandera{3} RayOfSunshine (1): Hael

I wouldn't be against that. I'll stick a vote on Sunshine for revenge.

Vote Tally Gaea (1): Fifth, Elandera{1} Rae (2): Drake, Striker{1}, Ray Wilson (2): Araris, Alvron Fura (2): Fura, Elbereth, Alv (2): Elandera{2}, Striker{2} So, yes, we've a 4 way tie on our hands. I don't care for a constable lynch this cycle, and I agree with El than I'm not really feeling the Rae lynch, which is mostly because she voted late on Lumgol, right? I need to think further about Fura and Alv...

That would make a little more sense. And yes, that was me.

How did Snip relate to the chain then?

It seemed important information to know - if he only sent the PM in the hour or two prior to that, then it's highly suspect and would read more of an eliminator trying to get out of a lynch. If it had been sent much earlier and just passing through another or player or two is what made it take so long to reach me, meaning it had been initiated long before he was under any pressure, then I'd be much more willing to trust Striker. If Devotary had said that it'd only been 2 or 3 hours before, I'd have put a vote on Striker. Obviously Devotary indicated that the PM came way before any votes in thread on Striker so we went with the Lumgol lynch. Unless Striker and Devotary are both evil, and were trying to win village favour. I guess @Furamirionind and @Snipexe - what point in the last cycle did Striker PM you about the scan?

And that's an excellent reason why lynching Joe was bad. @A Joe in the Bush Does that player list mean that no one is alive?

In other words, well before any votes were placed on Striker. I'm willing to accept then that Striker did scan Lumgol then, and that there's fair chance they are evil, partly also because they didn't claim the bribe. I'm okay with the Lumgol lynch, but me voting now with 5 votes on Lumgol is counter productive to being confident of whatever they appear as in the writeup, so I'll refrain from voting on them unless people pile off for some reason.

Yes you did, sorry. Lynch TallySnip (1): Alv, Hael, Drake{2}Kidpen (0): Fura{1}Ray (0): SnipStriker (2): Fifth, Araris, Fura{2}, Striker{2}, LumGaea (0): Rae{1}, Striker{1}Bard (0): Drake{1}, Drake{3}Lum (4): Striker{3}, Drake{4}, Devotary, Ray{2}, Rae{2}Wilson (0): Ray{1} So cleaning that all up: Lynch TallyLum (4): Drake, Devotary, Ray, RaeStriker (2): Fifth, LumSnip (1): Hael

Just to double check the tally independently, I think it's the following: Lynch Tally Snip (1): Alv, Hael, Drake{2} Kidpen (0): Fura{1} Ray (1): Snip Striker (2): Fifth, Araris, Fura{2}, Striker{2}, Lum Gaea (0): Rae, Striker{1} Bard (0): Drake{1}, Drake{3} Lum (4): Striker{3}, Drake{4}, Devotary, Ray{2}, Rae Wilson (0): Ray{1} And that looks like it all checks out. @Devotary of Spontaneity When did Striker PM you about the Lumgol scan? EDIT: I got ninja'd by Fura, putting my post on the start of the new page. Make sure you don't miss his RP post.

I've been a bit suspicious of Doc for this post: So, vote tallies from that cycle. Vote Tally Until Doc's Vote Bard (2): Stink{1}, Araris{1}, Rath, Araris{3} Shane (1): Rand Devotary (0): Araris{2} Araris (1): Sart Hael (1): Bard Rand (2): Fifth, Doc This vote is made here. It was made 3 hours 45 minutes before end of cycle. This would be around 12:15 a.m his time. Vote Tally when Rand claims Mistborn Bard (1): Stink{1}, Araris{1}, Rath{1}, Araris{3} Shane (0): Rand{1} Devotary (0): Araris{2} Araris (2): Sart, Striker Hael (1): Bard Rand (3): Fifth, Doc, Rath{2} Fifth (1): Snipexe Striker (1): Rand{2} This happened 40 minutes before end of cycle. Vote Tally at end of cycle Bard (1): Stink{1}, Araris{1}, Rath{1}, Araris{3}, Devotary{1}, Doc{2} Shane (0): Rand{1} Devotary (0): Araris{2} Araris (2): Sart, Striker Hael (1): Bard Rand (1): Fifth{1}, Doc{1}, Rath{2} Fifth (1): Snipexe Striker (4): Rand{2}, Fifth{2}, Doc{3}, Devotary{2} It's worth noting that Rath's vote on Rand was most likely soothed, as it did not appear in the official vote tally. Now, back to that post of Doc's. It's where he retracts his vote on Rand. He retracts simultaneously with Fifth (both posted 12 minutes prior to end of cycle). But what I'm suspicious of is why Rand claimed to Doc, and why Doc was even online. In the post, Doc claims that Rand claimed to him in a PM at 3 a.m. his local time, an hour before the end of cycle. Why I make a point of the timing is posting after 12am local time, that's reasonable. Closer to 3am though is much more likely to be out of the norm. Particularly given that Doc said he was going on a date that day and being well rested would probably be a good idea. Him being on to keep an eye on thread in case people decided to actually double down on Rand and be able to balance the votes again would help explain being up relatively late after he'd already signed off with his initial vote. He explains being awake to post on Rand claiming, but that still requires him to be awake 3 hours after his last post to even receive that email, so doesn't seem like a great excuse to still be online. That's not what you said at the time. Based on the times you said in your post, he claimed in thread 20 minutes after allegedly claiming to you in a PM. Anyways, for the moment, I'm suspicious enough of Doc to add a vote on him.

Alright, good to know it hasn't changed as much then. On MU, they basically killed you if you didn't put your vote where it would matter, i.e. on the bandwagon, or one one of them, if there were two, say.

First up - I was asked as the end of a PM chain to say that some used a Ledger on @Lumgol and had it turn up Corrupt. I have some thoughts on that, but if possible I'd like to hear from Lumgol first. 2. What exactly did my vote achieve? And I basically said that half the reason I put it there was in the off chance that Rath was daggered, I'd get items. 3. That might be true, but that's quite a significant change in process from how games were played when I started. Bandwagoning was severely frowned upon and scrutinised. The prevailing wisdom of the time was vote for who you've got a reason to vote for, don't just pile on a bandwagon. I still subscribe to that point of view. If you look up the game I played for the first Mafia Universe Championship we participated in, I played in exactly that way (and got killed for it for they played more like you and found it similarly suspicious). I didn't want to make it harder to prevent a Constable lynch, so I didn't have a good reason to put a vote on any of the lynches.

Doc revealing the seeker result is not relevant. If he didn't reveal it, who ever sent it to doc would know that he hadn't done so. Same if he changed the result. Makes it a bad idea to not reveal even if he were the inquisitor. We don't know that Rand wasn't the Mistborn - you lose your role when spiked, with only a chance of getting a new one.

Two points of order: - we have no idea if Burnt was village. Now from my PMs with her I reckon she was probably village her but she knows how to manipulate and read me so that doesn't mean a whole lot. - Snipexe can't have been the one to use the dagger. You can't keep items you use successfully. If he had used it, the dagger would have gone to the constables instead, and we'd be able to see it in the blackmarket, where we see there are none (someone got the dagger from the shop then it seems).

It's Alv and I playing up our annoyance at Burnt being taken out of the game day 1 for seemingly no reason. Alv and Burnt get on, and were likely to murderise people together if they got daggers. Burnt's also my sister, so I was hoping to work together with her this game. It's annoying then that we can't. Plus, this just a poke vote. A threat of lynch to encourage someone to answer a specific question. Given this game needs two votes for a lynch, poke votes should come in pairs anyway. I didn't get to before rollover. I'll quote that post so I can explain what I was thinking at the time. I didn't want to vote on any of the constables, at least not yet. I was hoping that if we gave it a cycle or two we might get a few more hints from writeups, or there's a chance that we could glean info from any corrupted senators, if we find them. But with only a few hours to go, there wasn't much I could do about the lynch. I mean, if someone else decided to join me on voting on someone, maybe, but that was unlikely with 2.5ish hours to go. Figured there was a chance maybe to at least try and get the inactives involved, make sure they knew the game had started - looks like Rae at least hadn't, so it did actually achieve something productive. Why Rath specifically - I've played with Bugsy and Rae before, but I've not played a full game with Rath before (I don't think?) so to me they're an unknown. Bugsy and Rae had been ofline for the better part of a day so seemed less likely to get on, whereas Rath had been online in the last 6 hours, and had been posting elsewhere I believe. There was little reason for them not to have seen that the game was active, or to have looked at the thread to see what's happening. Felt like they'd be more likely to respond. If they'd turned up, I'd have removed the vote, which really, didn't achieve much in the first place, given we need 2 votes to lynch anyway. The final aspect to it was I think it's important to have a vote down as much as possible. It can help provide information if everyone is consistently voting, and in this game, if we have votes spread out, it's much easier to keep items in play if we have dagger deaths, which turns out we ended up with...