Aether

Welcome. And do not despair over the waiting time. Sanderson is insanely more productive than most other authors, so the delays between future books will not be so bad (the long period between book 1 and 2 is somewhat of an exception). Be glad he's not George R. R. Martin and read Mistborn in the mean time (not as good as tWoK, but close).

I've read a lot of YA novels (except Twilight, I refuse to read that)

You should. They are HORRIBLE; do not misunderstand me, but there is a king of... poetic madness to those books. Surprisingly amusing to read if you do t more to study the author's way of writing than actually immersing yourself in the books. For example, she uses the word "scintillating" WAY too often in the first book, and compares Edward's body to that of a Greek god so many times I almost feel bad for her. It is tragically and horribly amusingly bad!

 

Other than that, welcome!

Welcome, skavoovee.  Glad to have you with us.

I second that motion!

For a Veristitalian, shouldn't this hypothesis be beneath your notice, on account of how little (i.e. nonexistent) evidence there is for it? =\

Oh, but it is all about the intent guiding my reasoning. When theorycrafting in earnest, this would indeed be the case, but when it is so much more amusing to blatantly ignore my own precepts, then fun takes over and permits me to say whatever the heck I want.

 

Besides, if I permit myself to be utterly pedantic, then my suggestion can be claimed to have been aimed at showing how little that oath of Moash actually tells us. I do not actually claim that it is so, only indicate how feeble any claim derived from that particular quote would be.

 

EDIT: grammar

It was an idle thought, a topic of further research. 

Sure, but it fits well enough into BS's magic systems that it could be reasonable to assume it is so.

Problem: there are apparently no highstorms in Shinovar. They do not have any apparent way to get Stormlight.

 

That would only pose a logistical problem, since there are Highstorms in the areas around Shinovar. If were already assuming that they use the Plates for "holy purposes", then assuming that they collect Stormlight in Spheres stored outside of Shinovar during Highstorms and send them into Shinovar for farming usage would not be too much of a stretch.

Didn't Ashir suggest imprecise measurements would lock them, but give them a bit of leeway to change parameters within certain limits? Given how most of BS's magic systems works, I think it reasonable to assume it is based on intent rather than the act of measurement itself. So making an estimation would give the Spren leeway to vary around that figure.

 

For example, measuring it to be around 3 inches long would lock it to be approximately 3 inches long, but it would still be able to shift closer to 4 than to 2 and the other way around.

Also Dalinar could be a unique case since he has received a boon and curse from the Nightwatcher. I also think it is wrong to assume that his memory loss is the curse and not the boon..

It seems to be suggested quite directly in the book that his bond to the Nightwatcher / Cultivation is independent of his later visions. Dalinar has claimed to know what both his boon and curse is, and I thus do not think it could be the origin of this particular voice. Other than that, I agree, I too have been thinking that the memory loss could be the boon and not the curse, though frankly, it can only be a mere baseless assumption at this point.

 

A good one though.

Shard of Shame. Which could have some interesting implications for the magic system.

I guess my hesitation in naming it as Dalinar's spren is that, if it is, then he seems to have had no direct contact with it.

 

Both Kaladin and Shallan have direct contact and conversation with their spren (almost against their will). Dalinar has not.

 

Lift and Ym have also had direct conversation with their respective spren.

 

The presence of the Shardblade to explain this (as given above) is slightly suspect as an argument since Shallan is also in possession of a blade (although I agree she has not really used it).

 

This is why I am tending toward a spiritual connection to some remnant of Honor for the visions, glowyness and voices.

 

On the other hand, we all agree that Dalinar is a prime candidate for a spren and really should have got one by now...

 

I remain on the fence with this one.

 

EDIT: We have not had a POV from Jasnah yet so we do not know if she has had an conversation with her spren or not. Either way she is too accomplished at keeping secrets to do so when anyone else is around.

Do note, on the other hand, that we've already got evidence of two radically different ways Nahel Spren communicates with their "hosts". Sylphrena and Wyndle have a quasi-physical manifestation visible to their hosts that they use to convers with them. In Shallan's (and presumably Elokhar's) case, they are invisible even to their host except for in quite specific situations (appearing in Shallan's drawings when her mind wanders and appearing to Elokhar in mirrors) and only speaks directly into their minds (confirmed for Shallan, assumed for Elokhar).

 

So for all we know, Dalnar's Spren might present another way of manifesting before their host, in addition to the arguments already presented.

Where would they get the spheres / gems from to power plate / regrowth?

 

They do not mine or break stone and do not want spheres (from the Rysn interlude) so what medium do they use to store stormlight for use in farming?

 

I think, if surgebinding is used in Shin society it would be the express domain of the leaders of society and tightly controlled.

Technically, they see Stormlight (and by extension, Spheres (or is it the other way around?)) as holy. So it isn't really a stretch to think that the very holy men (the "ones who add") could be allowed to use Spheres and Stormlight for adding farming purposes.

Wouldn't it be possible to use the Coppermind wiki for this? Make a comment-free post and permanent post somewhere really visible on this forum linking to the Coppermind article.

 

The plus side for this is that it would make linking the sources for Coppermind articles much easier.

Also the plural (Fathers) to me indicates general ancestors rather than specific antecedents so doesn't seem mutually exclusive to hatred of his Father.

Could also be indicating that he in fact has two fathers, which would mean that his parents either divorced and then remarried, or that he was raised by a homosexual male couple.

 

EDIT: Lol. I seem to remember having two up-votes on this post. Somehow this one became both my first double up-vote post and my first double down-vote post.

Here's one:

Chapter 26 "Stillness" p467-468 of the paperback. He is caught between the "Thrill" and a strange revulsion. I don't know whether the revulsion is from his spren or not, but then he experiences thoughts that seem alien to him:

"Once these weapons meant protecting, a voice inside of him whispered."

"Life before death. What was that voice?"

Thank you, Hoser. I've read the book several times and completely missed this every time.

 

And the pages correspond to page 381 in the hard-cover version for others who want to check this out. Still Chapter 29, though.

 

 

I think there is a third possibility.. The voices are a hangover from the visions and are the voice of Honor.

I agree this is very flimsy but we know the visions are having a profound effect on Dalinar and are definitely imparting knowledge to him. There could be some residual effects which manifest at times of stress or significant moments to prod him in more honourable directions.

We only have flimsy evidence for anything, at best, but given developments later in the book, I think we can rule out the possibility that this is Dalinar's own internal voice, especially given that it seems so out of place from the rest of his internal monologue and that it is accompanied with the very real physical effect of his sickness.

 

This leaves us with a Spren or "after-effects" of the visions as possible origins. It is noteworthy, though, that it is written in italics and in a slightly more elaborate font in the text, in much the same way as the Cryptics speak to Shallan:

 

She was interrupted midway through by a voice, uncanny, yet distinct.

       What are you?

(...)  "What am I?" she whispered. "I'm terrified."

       This is true.

- Chapter 45: Shadesmar, page 643 of the hard-cover version (couldn't find the correct font)

The examples we have, on the other hand, of Honour (or what is left of him) is written in a blocky type of font:

 

       Child of Tanavast. Child of Honour. Child of one since departed. The sudden voice

hook Kaladin; he floundered in the air.

     The Oathpact was shattered.

- Chapter 46: Child of Tanavast, page 648 of the hard-cover version (again, rather clumsy, but effective)

 

       The Words, a voice said, urgent, as if directly into his mind. In that moment, Kaladin was

amazed to realize that he knew them, though they'd never been told to him.

- Chapter 67: Words, page 926 of the hard-cover version.

Now, this might not be the most reliable evidence, but it seems to me much more likely that it is actually Dalinar's Spren talking to him (which we've all suspected he'd get at some point). But to see evidence of  this so early (yeah, I'm already treating it as a fact set in stone) almost makes me squee like a fanboy!

 

 

(ok, I did squee.)

Not the Shin. What if they accidentally cut a poor innocent rock in half? The horror! No way, the Shin may use Shards to cut people in half, but not their precious stones.

They might still use the Shardplates for farming.

 

I kind of like this theory, even if it is currently rather baseless.

Edit 2: I would be happy to add a new claim, but not with the word "may" in it.  The claim with "may" seems to me like it could never be wrong.  So please let me know whether you want to claim that Nohadon "did" or "did not" and I will add the issue. 

23. I take this as a vote, but not a new claim.  Please let me know if I misunderstood. 

29. Yes! Love the idea of Renarin creating huge explosions. 

33. I think the "real" means reasonably graphic, so I take this as "Agree".

34. Since it specifically says "this thread", it does exclude theories from other threads.  In any case, I am not going to go through every theory in every thread to verify a claim. 

• I'll shortly be removing the "may" part of my claim.
• 23. Just spit-balling. Not a new claim, just a my personal preferences in terms of shipping.
• 33. Yes, agree. I do believe that Sanderson will challenge himself on this at least at some point in what is likely his Magnum Opus.
• I somehow completely missed that part of the claim. I'll be changing my position to disagree - at least as long as it only applies to the numbered ones - as I think I'm supporting way over 85% of them. I might change this to agree in the future if the list grows longer and my Agree/Disagree ratio shifts.

Also, kudos to you for keeping track of this.

Dalinavani is pretty amazing, though I've heard people trying to expand it into an OT3... Dalianr/Navani/Eshonai. I believe the current name for that little ship is "The Three-Way of Kings." Which amuses me to no end, though I don't ship it.

This... might quite possibly, potentially and certainly be the most amazingest shipping-name evah!

 

EDIT: Upvoted !

“I swear, my dear. Sometimes our conversations remind me of a broken sword."

She raised an eyebrow.

"Sharp as hell," Lightsong said, "but lacking a point.”

This is pretty darn close to being my all-time favourite BS quote (pun intended).

 

This one too:

Black is so monotonous that you can forget about it, but red--you'd always be thinking, 'Why look at that. That hill is red. That evil force of doom trying to destroy me certainly has style".

- Breeze, Mistborn: The Hero of Ages

I just want to say that I hope Taln gets to do an infodump and saves us from several books of main characters being afraid to talk about whats going on.  However, somehow I doubt Taln will be able to force everyone to sit down and have a KR committee meeting.  

Upvote for presenting such a deliciously ridiculous scenario!

Hello. I gonna add a new one.

 

- Moash is a bastard son of a lighteye or he is a darkeye born of two lighteyes. - Agree

Disagree. Though he obviously has a beef with a Lighteyes.

Really, I LOVE how so many of 17th-shard threads devolve into scientific discussion. My personal favourite so far is the Parshendi & Gemhearts thread, which ridiculously fast gets ludicrously detailed.

I can't seem to find the right quote, but I am certain I've read a WoB where he said that all Shards are similarly blinded by their focus in the same way that Ruin and Preservation (and Harmony) was/is blinded by metal.

If writing is what locks a Spren down, or at least what permits the manipulation of them, then wouldn't this give the Shards of Roshar a rather unfair way to hijack the process? Granted that Odium/Cultivation can change writing much in the same way as [someone] did in Mistborn: WoA.

 

Or would this end up freeing the Spren, as the values of the measurements would have to be specific to the Spren in question, as shown in the Geranid/Ashin Interlude?

However, since we don't know where Elhokar's plate and blade came from, nor do we know where Sadea's plate came from, on the surface it certainly seems to be a viable theory. Considering Sadeas' acts during the night of the kings death, I don't think it would be a stretch for Elhokar to give him the plate if he already had his own. While not my favorite theory, I wouldn't be too surprised if turned out that way.

I think it most likely that his Shards are the ones currently possessed by Elokhar, and as already indicated by you guys, I can remember nothing from the books to indicate otherwise. If this is not the case however, the above theory appeals to me rather well.

I think the falling from the bridge was more the stormlight making him stronger, similar to Allomantic pewter. I'd bet every order of the Knights had at least that - some of the powers could get pretty self-destructive without immediate healing from minor injuries. Flinging yourself around with gravitational manipulations could be nasty if you're unable to heal bone stress and windburn.

It should be noted that this resistance to falls and the ability to enhance natural instincts and abilities mimic Shardplate's attributes (or rather, the other way around?). Since Shardplates are objects of high Investiture (powerd by Spheres, at least in modern times), it seems likely that this would just be a direct consequence of holding Stormlight/Investiture..