lizbusby

Yes, I've been trying to tie the three realms to Mormonness for a while. Well spotted.

So I'm hoping this topic can remain as civil as the last LDS connections in Brandon's work thread. I'm not even sure there's much for people to say, but when I was reading this book, I had two Mormon connections scream at me, so I had to get them out: 1. Kaladin's internal debate over whether to kill Elhokar: In the beginning of the Book of Mormon (1st Nephi 4), a righteous man (Nephi) is commanded to slay a man in order to bring back the scriptures for his family. A couple of quotes from this chapter seem to have direct parallels in Kaladin's struggle. First, Nephi comes upon Laban drunk and passed out in the streets, and is commanded by the Holy Spirit to kill him. It's interesting that Kaladin makes exactly the opposite choice. I listened to the audiobook, so I don't have the direct quote, but he says, "If I was going to kill him, I'd do it out in the open in front of everyone, not when he's lying there helpless and drunk." As Nephi is debating the morality of slaying this man with the Spirit, the Spirit says, "Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief." In addition to the obvious way that Kaladin goes directly counter to this statement, this idea is a major tie in to the Taravangian plot-line as well: who has the right to say a man's death is for the greater good? Anyway, as a Mormon reading this Kaladin scene, it seemed like it was constructed to directly contrast with this scriptural story, and it really enhanced my reading of it. 2. Dalinar's visions being exposed at the party: When Dalinar found the altered vision texts going around at the party, my mind instantly went to a story from early in the life of Joseph Smith. After translating the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon, these pages were lent to an associate from whom they were then stolen. Smith received a revelation that stated he should not retranslate these pages because his enemies would alter the previous translation, so that the comparison would discredit him. I dunno, maybe this is a tenuous stretch, but it instantly jumped to my (Mormon) mind in reading this scene with Dalinar being discredited with a slightly altered version of the truth. What do you think? Not sure where I'm going with this, but wanted to share in case anyone else is interested.

This is definitely true of many religious believers as well. There are those who have thought and made the choice for themselves, and those who stick around because they like the community and don't want to make waves. Fortunately, it's not our job to judge between the two but to judge our own reasons for believing and continually question and strengthen them. In fact, this is true in all areas of life, not just religion. Are we just doing what everyone else is doing or have we thought it through? An important point in life. Here, here!

I will be putting in chapter summaries for Elantris as I move along as well.

It's interesting because in many ways, this fits with the Mormon conception of God. Our God is not the typical "Unmoved Mover" of most of Christianity, not uncreated. We also don't believe in creation-ex-nihlo (sp?)--that God made everything out of nothing. There's a famous theological couplet: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, so man may be." We believe that all people existed as intelligences from the beginning, and God's role was more as an organizer than a creator. We also believe God went through the same process. So for many Mormons, the distinction between "a person with extreme amounts of power" and "a God" is less than for other branches of Christianity. Of course, I would add "extreme amounts of moral and temporal knowledge" to that definition, which seems to be lacking from Sanderson's God figures, which makes their conflicts a lot more interesting. My point is, the Mormon God is a lot closer to a Shardholder than other conceptions of God. I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but I personally see a heavy influence there. I feel that a Mormon conception of God is what allows Sanderson to explore divinity and religion so logically. (I admit that my interpretation of these doctrines is a little more liberal than some LDS. My father-in-law was shocked to find out that I do not believe in an omnipotent God, but one bound by the self-existent laws of the universe, but that's where my reading of the texts leads me.)

Alright, I will stay away from the Elantris (city) article but otherwise go to town as much as possible.

As a stay-at-home mom with 3 kids under 5, audiobooks while doing dishes, cooking, folding laundry, driving kids to preschool, etc. are the only way I get anything done. My oldest two are finally old enough to pay attention so I have started introducing them to audiobooks in the car as well. We will probably do some Harry Potter when we drive out to Grandma's for Thanksgiving. On the other hand, audiobooks are freakin' expensive. I usually buy Brandon's hardcover so I can read it NOW, then use audiobooks from the library for a re-read.(Exception: Way of Kings was too long for me to hope to read the physical book in a timely manner, so I bought the audio. Got the physical book for Christmas.) Even more handy if they are available from Overdrive so I can put them directly on my phone to have with me always. My husband can't stand audiobooks and always buys the ebooks to read on the bus to work. So yes, we keep Sanderson in business.

Do you mean the Kirtland Temple? Because that's actually owned by the RLDS church, or Community of Christ, and their beliefs differ significantly from LDS ones. Just an FYI. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned how Ruin is unable to read people's thoughts in HoA. That is such a blatantly LDS belief about Satan: that he has no access to our thoughts, but can only see our actions. See the following references: Yea, I tell thee, that thou mayest know that there is none else save God that knowest thy thoughts and the intents of thy heart.(Doctrine & Covenants 6:16) “While Satan can convey thoughts, he does not know whether these thoughts have taken root unless they are reflected either in words or in actions.” (Elder Francis M. Gibbons, The Dual Aspects of Prayer, Ensign, Nov.1991, p.78) Also, on the discussion of agency in Brandon's books, I think it goes beyond just the 11th Article of Faith. A strong belief in the moral agency of man is at the core of LDS beliefs. We believe that the whole purpose of God sending us into mortality was to give us the opportunity to exercise agency. We believe that before we came to Earth, Satan opposed this plan with one of his own in which all would be forced to live correctly, and all would return to God. We believe it was for this plan that Satan was thrust out of Heaven, as it says in Revelation. Denying the agency of others is literally the worst thing you could do in LDS theology. In each book/series, I've noticed that the bad guys tend to be those who want to take away or deny others the opportunity to choose (Lord Ruler, Hrathen, can't think of anyone from WoK now that I think of it . . . ). Also, the whole men-becoming-Gods thing happens in each book: Elantrians in Elantris, Vin and Sazed in Mistborn, all the people who have held shards in the various worlds. LDS theology says that we are God's children, and therefore destined to become someday like our Father, that is, Gods and Goddesses. The preoccupation with what mortals do with god-like power seems to be a central theme of the cosmere, and a very Mormon theme.

My book club picked Elantris for January! Yay! Any particular articles I can improve during this reread? I'd be happy to gather information.

Hey, I've been wondering if there's a way to improve on the Book NavBox. It seems a bit disorganized. Is there a way we could divide the books into cosmere and non-cosmere sections? Also, it seems we should put Elantris and TES on the same line, but not Warbreaker/Nightblood; it's misleading since it implies they share the same planet. Other series also ought to have their own lines, like the Infinity Blade series, and the Rithmatist and Steelheart series. I would do these things, but I have been staring at the code totally baffled. I could probably create new lines, but the cosmere/non-cosmere sections are beyond me.

And still stuck on hint 2.... rules, rule, law, laws, stopsigns, trafficlights, parents . . . . gah!