Daishi5

27 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

It is also possible that there were two murders in that place, one by stabbing, one by strangling. Seems the place where murders nearby aren't that rare.

 

 

!!!!  We only have a duplicate murder for Sadeas and the man who strangled his wife.  What is different about the stabbing here that we don't have two stabbings close by that are identical?

Someone else kind of mentioned it, but I worry that Dalinar's curse is to forget his wife, not to forget Evi.  That sounds like just the sort of evil wordsmithing twist that you tend to see in curses.  (Hopefully its just the everstorm that cured him.)

1 minute ago, PunSpren said:

"Set into the leather, it also had a painrial—a gemstone fabrial that would take pain from him if he pressed his hand on it. Navani had been working on various forms of pain-related fabrials for use by surgeons, and had mentioned using him as a test subject."

 

I cant say exactly why...... But this makes me nervous ......

Navani was actually experimenting with the Painrial on herself the first time we saw it.  

3 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Stormfather, Shallan... What are you doing.

Pattern is afraid.

It seems Shallan's path is going to be dark.  Reading her flashbacks was hard in WoR, maybe it's going to be hard to read her current timeline chapters in OB.

Why is shardplate a secret?  What dark secret are the spren hiding about plate? Is there a reason beyond frustrating us?

I don't want to find out that Dalinar has had some form of surgebinding potential his whole life.  I basically don't want to find out that magic on Roshar is based on a group of special children being given the potential and everyone else is just some muggle who can never do magic.  I like the idea of a magic system that any character can earn vs one they are just lucky enough to be eligible for.

We need a Fallout meme, "shipping wars, shipping wars never change."

On 9/25/2017 at 0:59 PM, Salkara said:

I'm referring to this epigraph in particular:

More and more, I think there may be something to this. Dalinar the Politician is horribly ineffective, and I don't think he has the time to build up enough political acumen to actually be good at it. Contrast this with Dalinar the Warlord, who is able to draw the loyalty of a man who had just been trying to kill him (thinking of Teleb here). Dalinar the Politician tried to maneuver Elhokar into making him Highprince of War, enforce the Codes, and make the highprinces work together. Dalinar the Politician failed miserably. Dalinar the Warlord kicked the king in the chest and made all the above happen. Dalinar the Warlord seems to succeed where Dalinar the Politician flounders.

I think there's a potential for Dalinar's journey in this book to be partly about discovering that he can be both the Warlord and a good man. If so, I think this line from Tanalan may prove to be an interesting bit of foreshadowing:

 

1

My theory is that Desolations are not a fight against Odium's army, but everyone is fighting everyone, and Odium uses that chaos to drive the groups to commit greater and greater atrocities against one another, creating more hatred for each other.  If I am right, Mr. T. is serving Odiums aims by destabilizing the world.  

For your question about is he right about Dalinar:

He is wrong about the present Bondsmith Dalinar, this Dalinar has been very dedicated to bringing the people together without making them hate each other.  

He is correct about the Blackthorn Dalinar if he re-emerges.  The old blackthorn might bring people together, but they would resent and hate him and each other for his methods.

I don't expect that Dalinar's arc is going to have him backslide into the Blackthorn, so I think Mr. T. is wrong.

2 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Do Bondsmiths get squires?

Not sure, we know windrunners get more and stronger squires, but I guess some could go without.  

I want to see Kaladin or Bridge 4 training Gaz and company on how to be good bodyguards/squires for Shallan, since bridge 4 will be the only ones with experience being squires and the ability to use stormlight.

I also just realized I want to see Dalinar get some squires, just to see who they will be.

1 minute ago, Hischier said:

This reminds me, why has no one looked for actual information? The reason Jasnah wanted to find Urithiru in the first place was to find info about the return of the Voidbringers.  Sure they're back already, but that still seems like it'd be very useful information. Hopefully they get around to it at some point. 

I have to go look, but i think Shallan has been looking, but hasn't found any library yet.  If you look at the urithiru size thread, the place is huge.

Shallan is deeply uncomfortable being deep in urithiru, and requests a room with a balcony because of it.  She also seems to recognize patterns that could lead her to Dalinar's room.  She also can't draw it.  ( But that could be due to it's ridiculous size) I don't know if information is encoded there, but something is really weird about the place.

This is one area where I think we are missing too much critical information. 

• The Listeners songs say that the Stormfather (who they call the Rider) is a traitor because he chose to protect humans instead of listeners, why, protect from what, and how?
• The listeners also view the spren as traitors for bonding humans, and one of their songs say they are broth while men are meat.  How did this happen when the listeners and the spren are native to roshar but humans are not?
• What did Gavilar mean when he said they would be Radiant and Vibrant?  Vibrant is a really odd word choice here, considering that the listeners call the closest form to the slave dull form.  Vibrant really does not seem like a word to be related to Odium.  
• Desolations of the past nearly wiped out civilization each time.  Dalinar says that they show the people as primitive, Taln's speech seems to imply that he expected to come back to a human society at a stone age level lacking even bronze tools.  Yet, Gavilar was a son of Honor who hoped to bring about a desolation, and also hoped to leave behind a strong kindom, how can he hope for both?
• Jasnah required years of study to figure out the Parshmen were voidbringers, can we assume that Gavilar made the Parshmen-voidbringer connection without ever being a good scholar?  
• In the WoR, Jasnah points out that just having all the Parshmen walk away would cause a huge crisis for humanity as they lost a huge amount of their slave labor, Kaladin and Shallan reiterate that point.
• If Gavilar does not know they are voidbringers, and he has to know losing so many slaves would cause a crisis for his kingdom, how would this unite his people?
• On the other hand, how could Gavilar figure out the voidbringer connection, and how to reverse the enslavement of the parshmen, and that the parshendi were the key to bringing about the new storm?  In the prologue he seems to know so much.
• The epigraphs seem to indicate that the bondsmith enslaved the voidbringers rather than destroy them.  So it seems that the listeners had already been corrupted by Odium, was their enslavement also protection?
• Desolations are somehow based on the Heralds coming back, what would have happened if the Desolation started while the parshmen were still enslaved?  Would Odium have been prevented from corrupting parshmen? Could he do it anyway?  
• Did the Everstorm actually free the parshmen, they don't seem to speak with the rythms?

I originally thought that the everstorm broke whatever they used to enslave the Parshmen.  But, you bring up an interesting point about their songs.  When Eshonai goes out into the storm, she attunes rhythms and they all become the same thing when it is time for her to change.  Maybe whatever was done to the Parshmen is still in effect, maybe they took away their ability to hear the music and the Parshmen still can't hear it.  If that is true, then how the everstorm changed them, and how it gave them forms may still be a mystery.

Just now, WhiteLeeopard said:

I am not sure if the new parshmen non-voidbringers will necesarily copy the parshendi. The impression I got so far is:

1. Listeners were in Roshar
2. Humans and Shards arrived
3. Odium appropriated the Listeners/the Listeners went to Odium for power
4. Rebel group or more strong willed among the Listeners splintered away to embrace dullform and became Parshendi
5. Humans forced slaveform upon all the remaining Listeners, they became Parshmen

Considering the time that has passed, and that the Parshendi basically abandoned the Parshmen I'm unsure if there will really be two sides of conflict here (humans, parshendi and parshmen) or two (humans and voidbringers) with parshendi going to either side.

Somewhere in there, the Parshmen felt betrayed when Spren bonded with humans.

1 minute ago, Aleksiel said:

Pattern is hilarious, these were some of the funniest chapters Brandon has written. 

And we got some foreshadowing in favor of Adolin reviving his Blade. It was so nice seeing him being open minded about women using Blades and sharing his passion with Shallan, who couldn't help but get offended while thinking all darkeyes are peasants  Oh, Shallan... Do Forge a less classist version of yourself... 

Adolin was kind of being sexist in his own way even as he pushes past it. 

Just now, Belzedar said:

I really want this knob to be a cleverly-disguised switch or latch. Urithiru must have secret passages.

Urithiru is really weird, why is Shallan unnerved being inside it to the point she needed a balcony?

Wacky theory, the spren is described as a ribbon of light.  Syl is often described as a ribbon of light.  I think the tent at the center has another proto radiant in it leading the Parshmen.  

There have to be several orders that would be on the Parshmen's side if they found out they were thinking people who had been enslaved.  I don't think it is a Parshendi-Proto-Radiant because WoR epigraphs say the Spren can't get from Parshendi what they get from humans, and I really expect Eshonai to be the first Parshendi radiant.  It could create really interesting conflict for Kaladin if another proto-radiant is leading them and insistent that the Parshmen deserve justice and restitution for what they have suffered.

Kaladin torn between the justice of demanding to be recognized as free thinking people, vs the people's fear, the need for stability in the face of the crisis, and the fear that Odium could seize control of Parshendi at any time.  How can Kaladin protect people who might become monsters against their own will?

Just now, PunSpren said:

I may have jumped the gun a bit, But a statement like that, hidden around other tension from another event would fit well with the misdirection Brandon uses to foreshadow without us noticing lol. If we see any more like that we will know we need to pay more attention. For now probably best to wait for more evidence.

The problem is, Brandon's really good foreshadowing is obvious in retrospect but hard to catch beforehand, like that comment I quoted in WoR about the Parshmen only needing to walk away to cause devastation.  At the time, it just seemed like a comment to reinforce how bad things would be when the Parshmen became violent.

1 minute ago, king of nowhere said:

So... does it mean dividing by zero becomes acceptable in human society after performing proper rituals?

Math uh... finds a way.

Just now, Pagerunner said:

Also, is Brandon throwing some shade at us?

 

No, our theories are arrived at through careful deliberation of all the facts and evidence without any bias or logical fallacies.  We would never cling to a theory just because we liked it. 

I think my earlier theory is right, the Parshmen are not voidbringers (at least not yet), the everstorm gave them back their souls, their ability to bond spren, or just broke whatever had been done to enslave them in the first place.  I have another theory that desolations are wars between groups of people with Odium driving everyone to be worse in these wars, and maybe he follows up at the end with an evil army.  

One thing I caught rereading WoR:  "The Parshmen wouldn't need to turn violent to throw us into chaos - though I'm certain that is what's coming- they could simply walk away.  It would cause an economic crisis."

I think this will pose huge economic problems for Kholinar, and it will cause Kaladin huge problems because he can't just kill innocent Parshendi.  He didn't want to fight Parshendi in WoR because they were so honorable.  At the same time, the worlds economy is going to be collapsing, which will cause wars.

I predict this book will be about Kaladin protecting two mostly innocent sides from each other, when both sides have reasons to hate the other.  One side thinks the other is ancient monsters, the other side knows they were enslaved.

Edit: the quote from WoR is from page 111 kindle edition.

26 minutes ago, She Who Cannot Be Named said:

I'm laughing so hard at the moment  Pattern, you are wonderful (maybe not in terms of being a chaperone, but you could still apply as a Math teacher).

Divide by zero is my new favorite euphemism for mating. 

9 hours ago, sprocket said:

Well the surge of transportation is a thing. 

Currently we know less about plate then we do blades, I'm sure there's a reason ancient plate behaves differently that we're going to learn soon. The thing is, if plate wasn't a fabrial, why does it behave so similarly to one? If it was a bunch of spren in solid form why does it need gems and stormlight to work? You end up with questions either way, but with what we have I think the fabrial angle is more likely partly due to occams razor. 

In the way of Kings Navani asks Dalinar twice about ancient fabrials.  He is sure that they are primitive and don't have fabrials.  He says the plate and blade seem like they don't belong, as if the heralds really did hand them down to man.  That makes it unlikely that they had the ability to produce only one very advanced fabrial type.