Bloodfalcon

Solid counterpoint. Maybe he is in league with Taravangian. Maybe he IS Taravangian!!! Duh duh DUHHHHHH!!!!

My first thought was Nalan. Why do we think he has a regular one? If he is Darkness, that dude seems like he'd want his stuff back. Jez would also mean Szeth doesn't have an Honorblade, so I hope it isn't him, personally. Thanks for sharing!!!!

Nice! Man, it is shaping up so that literally everything has a spren attached somehow, haha

There are if you consider it might take certain circumstances for that to occur. Could be the reason that the Parshendii move away their dead and are offended when the process is disturbed. And if the ones swept into the chasms are converted, and then lose their minds, what is to stop them from killing other Parshendii? Like I said, it is a plausible theory that has been discussed if you want to go look it up. I myself don't want this to be the case.

I'm glad you caught my meaning there. I don't consider them turning into Chasmfiends to be an ethical dilemma as far as our conversations are concerned (it absolutely would be with Alethi ripping out their hearts ) because there it is understood that they change form and their minds and bodies undergo transformations. Brandon is clearly trying to evoke sympathy for the Parshendii/Parshmen at different points in the book, and I understand the correlation to real scenarios, which is precisely why it is good to consider things like the Pashendi being chasmfiends. If he is going to challenge those views, that might be a great way to do it! When does one stop being a "people"? When your body is completely different? Your mind? What if you still have the same soul all the while? I'm not writing any of that in as fact, but my point is that that line of thinking is constructive here, where it applies. By one definition of people - sentient beings- Chasmfiends may not apply. By another, they might. If the cause was that the Pashendii warrior died and then the deathspren transformed him, does that still make him a people when he is a giant worm-lobster? Does that mean a zombified version a human would be a "people"?

No it doesn't.. My opinions aside, going into a form that is almost 0 intellectual, almost 100 physical doesn't seem like a stretch for a race that can go 60/40 or 25/75 in the same manner. But they are less "people" for the most part. Their forms are created through spren. The percentage of "people" that they are just went down. They are not the humans that are created on every planet. I consider them just as much "people" as Kandra.

I don't remember the description of Shallan's blade, but that would be very very interesting. It might effect the Szeth has an Honorblade theory and pull in Shallan has an Honorblade. The current theory on Szeth (the one where he has an Honorblade) typically attributes his surgebinding ability to having an Honorblade. If that is how things work, it might make sense then that Shallan has one. Both her and her father could Soulcast w/ a broken fabrial. Not sure if it was broken before her father stopped Soulcasting. Szeth doesn't have a spren, Shallan doesn't have a spren (Cryptics may not work the same way exactly, bond-wise, but I'm sure that statement will get a reaction, haha). Man, all that sounds really fun.... but I don't think we have any description of her blade, sooooo unless you can link it, those fun conversations probably die right there I <3 wild theories

Lots of different people have suggested they might turn into chasmfiends under the right conditions! It's been discussed to exhaustion, so if you are interested, I would suggest searching it.

Yeah, that is possible. People seem to put a lot of stock into that name though. Painspren don't come from the Shard Pain, though. It's typically a system where attraction is what causes the name. I think the same thing when I see people write "Cultivationspren". Maybe there is a spren that is attracted to someone cultivating in a way, but the names have not had anything to do with that before.

Great counterpoint. Can't be sure whether or not an Honorblade bonds to a person in a special way that allows for this, but it certainly makes the scenario much less likely in my eyes.

These forums are too big, so don't be discouraged when people tell you this, but this has been discussed several times and there are several different theories on it. Some people believe exactly what you proposed, while others think that maybe some of the Ideals will grant additional uses of the Surges. We'll see. All I know is that Windrunners have three according to Szeth, and Edgedancers have 3 (it would seem) according to Wyndle. So it sounds like that is the case, but that isn't running on a lot of information and of course if you have ever read any long epic fantasy series, you know that all of those rules are subject to change as your legendary heroes defy all laws.

Kurk, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your ability to link sources. I don't lean the same way on this one, but man, there are a few users on here who are motivated in all the right ways. Thank you.

Seriously doubt? Wyndle kind of goes on and on about "Mother" or whatever he calls her. The most straightforward explanation of the Ring seemed to me to be a group established by Cultivation for that purpose. We also know that Syl's memory is busted with no confirmation of why (IIRC there is a WoB about her being an oddity for that reason?), so she may actually have been sent and then had a mishap. Side note: It would be pretty cool if Syl was sent to be the Honorspren of the Shardbearer that Kaladin encounters (or someone else considering there were signs of her before that moment) but forgot and was drawn to Kaladin based on his actions. Not saying it is likely, but another cool idea that would make their bond seem more special.

Hahaha, there is almost more evidence for this scenario than any other Honorblade scenario I have seen.

I always do Andolin...

But it is the combination of the intent and the speech that does it. Without one, the other doesn't complete the process. Syl begs Kaladin to vocally express the ideal even though it is clear he is feeling it and determined to uphold it. The words are as critical.

Would it be the Cognitive or Spiritual? Either way, I am inclined to say there is a limit to Regrowth. I don't really want to see someone brought back from having their eyes shrivel up. Maybe you could bring back limbs or something like that though, I don't know. That sounds a lot like what you would expect normally with healing, but on one level above. Good question though. I am not as well versed in WoB quotes as others.

Aren't Honor and Cultivation themselves pieces of Adonalsium? I don't find it surprising that when the whole is in tact it produces spren, and an individual piece produces spren too. Again, not a popular theory, but I support only because it is what seems the most fun to me (in the ways that it fits for other theories) and I can't find anything to fully disprove it other than a lot of "not likely's".

I suppose what I mean is that..... it is hard to put into words. It feels to me like the union of Honor and Cultivations magic is what the spren are, but the different aspects of them will be part of Honor or part of Cultivation. I think that my wording for things and perspective of this stuff are confusing. It got Aether and I confused before, too. I think of it more like Cultivation and Honor each put in ingredients, and the process that is Cultivation's involves spren, and the process that would be Honor's involves more surgey stuff. The result is Surgebinding via Nahel bond, with some resulting spren being balanced more toward one than the other. Sorry if that is really confusing again.

Mine is not a popular opinion, but I think that all spren are of Cultivation. I think that Honorspren is of the same nature as truthspren. The Nahel bond would be a combinination of Honor and Cultivation to create/control surgebinding. Again, not popular, but yeah, I think there will be lots of types but all under Cultivation.

Thanks for the references. Yeah, I was trying to type that out fast and may have jumped the gun on a few sentences. Wyndle says something about honorspren and cryptics getting together for something, which made me so frustrated because if it was worded about any other way we would know if those were the only groups or just the polar opposite groups/types (funny enough, those two are across from each other entirely).

The more and more I think about it, the Unmade/Fools sounds so much like what we already have. 10 Heralds, basically corrupted to become twisted versions of what they once stood for. It would be... disheartening to add 10 more troublesome Herald-type figures unless we get some of the standard Heralds back on their feet STAT.

I think you are misunderstanding me, maybe due to hasty explanation. It could be like this: Honorspren: -Wind Type (Order 1) - Vine Type (Order 4) - Light Type (Order ?) Cryptics: - Truth Type (Order 6) - Fear Type (Elokhar's Order) (lol) - Snooty Type (Jasnah's) There are subdivisions of spren which have qualities that match specific orders but are underneath the umbrella category of either Honorspren or Cryptics. Honor might be more physical spren where Cryptics are more Cognitive (hence they cannot be seen by most (where windspren types are seen by all though not always at the same time)). There are plenty of ways to categorize them that make sense but don't have an edge over other categorizations. There are also plenty of types of spren that haven't been seen before by certain people. Heck, deathspren are considered a myth by some. So that claim really holds no weight. Nobody thinks that Ym is an Edgedancer, I was saying they could fall under the same category but be different types. It's all possible, so while I believe Ym is Order 5, there is really no saying whether or not that indicates what classification of spren he would have OR whether he is an exception to some rule. It sounds to me like you are suggesting that if Jasnah, Elhokar, and others are seeing Cryptics, that means they are Lightweavers.

Just.... leave me to my peace, won't you, Shardbearer? Now I just want to sedate myself until March.

I think the evidence suggests that either result is possible. Syl appears to be an anomaly while Wyndle's path was very clearly designed by a source that he cites. We have no clue what caused Syl's memory loss and to what degree that plays a role in her methods here. She may be running off of a very basic, instinctual system for promoting the bond, while Wyndle seems to have his methods down to a science. There is no evidence suggesting that two Honorspren of different "types" could not be dished out between two different Orders because Syl's form is conducive to Windrunner abilities and Wyndle's is to Edgedancers. Their characterstics fit the bill in a more "physical" sense which is what distinguishes the Order. Not necessarily Honor or Cultivation. Also, there are several different Cryptics that Shallan can see, all with different symbols. These could all be Cryptics (and I think that they are), and each of them could correspond to a different Order depending on what symbol hovers above their heads. We already have a good idea that symbols play a role in what Order you are........ Point being, whether or not that is true, I think the evidence allows for each scenario pretty equally. So we are not sure that Ym is an exception. Or that the female KR is an exception. Both statements rely on quite a bit of reaching.