Bloodfalcon

I'm in that same position, man. I am thoroughly convinced that the Surgebinding chart is Honor and the other is Cultivation, but I'm starting to feel like - in light of the news that they were romantically involved - they allowed pieces of each other into their own systems. Like a pact of their own.... However, I think that that quote is in reference to the KR, not the Heralds. In context it sounds like Honor chose the Heralds, and then the spren were responsible for imitating them and creating KR. The Orders themselves are a function of the KR needing some order (teehee). Geez I just want to get this thing figured out already! Edit: 500th post! I get dem 4 dots!

Except that Honor and Cultivation are both 100% male and female respectively. It's not so odd for them, hahaha. Just like the Allomancy and Feruchemy charts, I think this one is split in multiple directions based on different things.

Yeah, I'm surprised Dalinar can enforce the Codes throughout the camp like they are super important, but then obviously overlook one. Adolin and the Thrill though... he feels it in combat, but I don't think it's any more than others. And that was just one duel when the Thrill took over, and it was right at the moment where he got too serious with it and started thinking about it as a "war." I think Adolin is going to look back on that and decide not to go down that road again. That or Dalinar will convince him. Anyway, it's not like it is a growing thing; it was just one incident. Still dangerous though.

I was going to start a new topic, but I like this one so much that I'm just going to write my thoughts at the bottom of it. Just things that I think support your theory, skaa. Part of it at least. There are only a couple descriptions of Cultivation that we have from Brandon: *Additionally there are quotes that the Shardholder is in fact a woman, and she was romantically involved with Honor. She is all about growth. We have a Surge called "Growth" at the bottom of the chart. I think that supports the Cultivation-bottom/Honor-top thing you have going. All of the Heralds at the top are also males, while those on the bottom are females. It fits really well. I think there is also something to be said for Transportation and Division being two Surges that bridge the divide there, but I'm feeling apathetic and lazy now that the new book is coming out, so I'm not going to write out my theories on that or start a different topic for any of this. hahaha

? Steal Shards? I've seen him duel for one, but that is about it. It does break the Codes to duel in times of war, I believe, but I think that is the only infraction so far.

That's a good quote Edgedancer! Thanks! That "Adonalsium's wife" idea is interesting. Wife, Brother, really any relationship I suppose. I think they would have to be entirely dead if that were the case though. We would probably know if there were Shards of a different being that powerful.

Ok, that makes sense, thank you. I was wondering, what is the intention of those blogs really? I just tried creating a friends-only one, which will come in handy for me regardless, but are they for journaling? PSA's? I wouldn't want to post content that really belongs elsewhere, so I'm just trying to get a sense for what the Admin perspective is on them.

I was just reading some interviews and noticed a couple answers that I personally had not seen before that got me thinking. OOOOOOk. So I have seen that second one before, but now it makes me really question what the first one means. If Adonalsium had enemies that are still around, one would think they would be a fair bit more powerful than 1/8th of Adonalsium's power. Odium is 1/16th and is considered the single most dangerous thing out there. I'm not very creative, I admit, so really only one scenario comes to mind: It seems to me that Adonalsium was opposed by a group or mob of other beings. No single one of them would be more powerful than Harmony, obviously, but as a group, maybe. It is even possible for them to have magic of their own to fight with (though that may not be necessary): So these beings may have magic on their side, they would be extremely old, and I imagine they still oppose Adonalsium. Dragonsteel is set on Yolen I believe, which is also where Hoid is from, and there is another Brandon quote that Hoid was there when Adonalsium shattered. I'm beginning to think that the group that is opposed to Adonalsium is one of two options: Hoid + friends - would explain why a group called the 17th shard is chasing him and why he is collecting information and influencing events across all the planets/times. The Dragons - the ones that Hoid writes the Letter to. They were around back in Dragonsteel, they probably possess their own sort of magic, and that book is where it would be revealed anyway. Hoid is trying to get there help for a single Shard of Adonalsium, so they clearly are OK with taking down Shards even if they have different methods than Hoid. The reason I don't list the 17th Shard is because of the name. I doubt they were around before Adonalsium shattered into 16 shards.... it sounds like they are trying to help the Adonalsium cause. So Yeah, I am a little worried for our heroes throughout every series so far, because it seems like they are having problems with Odium while there is a force running around that is probably responsible for Adonalsium shattering, or is at least strong enough to resist Adonalsium. If the 17th Shard is the good guys, they are awful ineffective at the only thing we've seen them trying to do so far. Again, I am worried. Ok. So I could really use some help from the more experienced Cosmere theorists here. Does anyone have any quotes that might relate to this, or go against it? Any other popular theories or pieces of the puzzle that I missed? Thanks!

You make a good point about Cultivation being very near to Transformation, but I would be careful with the creation bit. I think I remember a Brandon quote about Adonalsium being creation, but Cultivation being more of a "transition" rather than creation. Which is nearly identical to Tranformation. I'll try to find it, but it isn't Cultivation's goal to create, as I understand it. Edit: It looks like Cultivation is about "growing" more than anything. Taking things that exist and enhancing them. Just like Ruin took things that exist and deteriorated them.

The phrasing of that quote in the book is really curious as well. If only he can see it, does that mean Rock is not as special as we all believe?! Surely not...

Yeah that was my point. He has been saying this for a while - almost a year now - but still doesn't have a relationship with a spren like the others do. I would be surprised if Dalinar started jumping through the Ideals having no idea he was a Surgebinder or had a spren. That's why I think he will need to meet his spren first, but then he is going to rapid fire through them. Saying he doesn't have a spren meant he can't see one, talk to one, surgebind or any of the other characteristics of the characters we've seen who've spoken an Ideal and been affected by it.

I would say the option where you try to convince him not to. Negotiate, maybe even explain the problem. I don't think you would sign a peace treaty and then higher an assassin the same day though. That doesn't sound like the course of action I would take with one of my friends.

I know that he doesn't have his spren yet, but Dalinar has been both saying and living the first Ideal for a while now....

I think that it could be argued any chemical reaction is Transformation of a sort. Turning a goblet to blood is a little outside what I know of chemical reactions, but so is shooting sticky goo from fingertips. I think they are all things based on natural forces, but not so literal as this is fantasy.

Oh! Well if it is a content release I bet it will be more visual WoR content like sketchbook entries. "Opportunity" does make it sound like a one time event or something though, like a contest.

yeah, that sounds a lot like a giveaway. Exciting opportunities are always giveaways or discounted rates on vacations and credit cards.

Yeah, I think they are too, but when you consider the standards we have been holding them to... We expect the Alethi to exhaust all options to avoid war and vengeance, but Gavilar told the Parshendii of a plan and they had him assassinated. It doesn't sound like that was very well negotiated either. That event is still muddled to us, but it is very similar logic. So far, even our main Alethi POV characters think the Alethi are a bit slimy though, hahaha that is putting it nicely.

There has been a bit of thought from Kaladin on being distinguished and treated differently from others. He mentions that he has come to accept that difference, so it might be something about taking responsibility or bearing the burden of leadership for those that follow. It could also be one about integrity. A thought like "I have to lead people in a way that does not compromise my code of ethics or theirs." Something about the guiding aspect of leading.

And good speculation. But it is a much farther leap to assume that than it is to consider the possibility that we have seen another type of Shardblade that isn't operating on that difference. If they weren't literally the same blades, I would call it 50/50.

But again you shift the focus from the actual event. It was dishonorable. Pardons are something you give only for wrongful acts. I wasn't claiming the Parshendii have never acted honorably, but to say that they might be bound by honor or something like that (or that Szeth was acting honorably).... you'd be wrong.

So if you and I shook hands, then I had Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson - dressed in a neon green leotard - come punch you in the face, that would be honorable on my part as long as I admitted it was my idea? I think you would question my honor at the end of the day.

You know what just reeks of honor? Signing a peace treaty and then assassinating the head of the other side. Woah, they might be Honor's champion.

Hey guys, no worries, worst case scenario is Shen sucking up Syl and gaining some new form while tearing Kaladin away from his powers. No big deal. I don't think that is how listener-spren interactions work, but the thought crossed my mind and my eyes widened in horror. hahaha

You're probably right. Although, it has been thousands of years of Kholinar changing hands between leaders who may have painted over it. I can't keep the same desktop background for more than a couple weeks

I decided to take from it that Truth was a code of ethics that Szeth violated or is said to be apart from. Some people still don't accept that for some reason, but I think he would have changed the title if it was not the same. Other than that, it appears that really nothing can be taken without something else discrediting its accuracy, not that my Truth decision isn't also an assumption....