Scriptorian

Good discussion here.
I’m currently writing a book where the magic system is directly linked to the characters’ disabilities. So, needless to say, I am very interested in discussions of disabilities in fiction, especially when they mingle with magic systems.
The basic premise of my magic system is that every character with a power has some kind of associated psychological/neurological disability. In-universe, they aren’t sure if the powers cause the disability, or if a preexisting disability is what let’s you develope powers (read and find out  ). Regardless, all powers have the built-in drawback of supernaturally aggravating one’s disability when overused. Also, the powers and disabilities tend to be thematically linked. This leads to interesting interactions.
The general rule I’m operating under is that while some characters can sidestep their disability through use of their power, it’s usually short-term and there’s always a cost. For example, one character can manipulate sound but has aural hypersensitivity. He can theoretically avoid his usual problems with sensory overload by lowering the volume of all sound around him, but doing so leaves him even more sensitive afterwards.
Things get even more sticky when different people’s powers start interacting with each other (like, for example, someone who can manipulate emotions meets someone with depression). So I’m having a fun time trying to allow characters to develop organically, and the magic system to interact realistically with their disabilities, all while maintaining sensitivity to real peoples’ experiences.
I’m also planning a deconstruction of what happens when a character's life-long disability does get essentially resolved by the magic system. (Spoiler alert: there will be angst)

TLDR: if my book ever gets close to publishing, I’m going to need all the sensitivity readers. (I'm almost halfway through the first draft. Woot.)

To me, this read very strongly as Syl having some form of attention-deficit disorder, or least a spren equivalent, as radiantAlThor suggests. However, in addition there were several beats that struck me as also sounding indicative of autism-spectrum disorders. Namley:

1. Seeing a distinction between her "responsible brain" and her "child brain". I just happened to have read Temple Gradin's "The Autistic Brain" recently, where she recounts some individuals with ASD describing a difference between their "acting selves" and "thinking selves". The resemblance is so uncanny, I would not be surprised if Brandon is deliberately evoking the same idea.
2. Her aversion to "diversity of loudness"  is indicative of sensory difficulties associated with Autism. (I have the exact same problem, loud rooms full of conversation make me very neurotic, but I find thunderstorms soothing. So maybe I'm projecting?)

Granted, that second bit also reads strongly of attention-deficit symptoms, but if you know much about either disorder, you know that there's plenty of overlap and comorbidity.

My initial thought was also that Syl's symptoms (for lack of a better term) was the result of her past trauma. But it's also possible that a spren's neurology-analog is just as capable of getting mis-wired as a human's. Since mental-health has metaphysical ramifications in the Cosmere, there's probably some of both going on.

I also like how Kaladin's depression is being addressed more explicitly. Sufficeth to say, I found this interlude absolutely delightful.

1 hour ago, The Invested Beard said:

Because it can produce a few notes, though they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!

Don't be silly. It's because Poe wrote on both .

3 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

17th Shard: We'll ship anything.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that's just an internet thing. I'm not claiming responsibility for the phenomenon, in any case. 

11 minutes ago, Salkara said:

Another possibility... Naln arrives in Urithuru, takes one look at Adolin, and says, "murderer."

Except he has to say it like this:

*sigh* I'm going to miss the lost potential of the Jasnah-Hoid travel log. I suppose there is always the chance it will come up in Jasnah's flashbacks...

Hoid: Would you like to know how I judge the experience of your company, measured in terms of blows to the head?

Jasnah: Shut up, Wit.

Pattern: No mating...

10 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Shallan being subordinated into Jasnah's POV chapters is a clever meta-narrative representation of her struggle to escape Jasnah's shadow.

I felt so bad for Shallan.  Struggled so hard, fought an unmade, was feeling a measure of respect for herself for being an independent adult AND SUDDENLY JASNAH.

Book: Shallan is feeling successful and mature. 

Me: This is obviously an ironic setup, but what could possibly happen to bring Shallan down a notch?

Also me: Jasnah storming Kholin. 

Book: Jasnah walks it. 

Me: Storm it. 

Also me: *smiles smugly*

Just now, Starla said:

I got Shallan too. I guess it makes sense, though I never make bad puns.

Are you implying that you only make good puns? I find that unlikely. 

I got Hoid, so this quiz must be perfectly accurate. 

And now onto something completely different!

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“What is it?” Renarin whispered. “Glys is frightened, and won’t speak.”

“Pattern doesn’t know,” Shallan said. “He calls it ancient. Says it’s of the enemy.”

Renarin nodded.

“Your father doesn’t seem to be able to feel it,” Shallan said. “Why can we?”

“I… I don’t know. Maybe—”

I just can't help but hear @FeatherWriter's delightful reactions in my head whenever Renarin is mentioned. 

"No Shallan, no! You don't get to exchange information about ancient evils with my baby after you tried to gag him and called him creepy. Just... no. #NoDeadKholins2017."

Anyone else disappointed that we're not going to get Splintercast Reads Renarin & Steris Forever Oathbringer?  

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Scriptorian the plate does interfere with Renarin's surgebinding though. He had to remove his gauntlet to heal the members of bridge four.

Presumably for Szeth, he wouldn't have been able to use adhesion without doing the same, and he wouldn't have been able to use lashings for the same reason he couldn't lash an enemy Shardbearer directly. 

Hmm...I guess it's a reasonable reading that he had been taking the gauntlet off and on the whole fight when he needed to heal someone, rather than just taking it off at the end for no explicable reason, which is how I read it. Feels like it could have been written clearer either way   

Another question that's occurred to me: is contact actually required for Renarin to use regrowth? Hand contact specifically? Lift seems to be able to use it just by breathing on people, in which case Renarin should just be able to raise his visor. Is this a difference between orders? Renarin just doesn't understand his powers yet? Lift is just awesome? I'm reading too much into it? 

20 minutes ago, Marethyu316 said:

Kaladin could fly into battle. Are we sure those weren't windrunners that we saw?

In the WoK prologue, Szeth mentions that wearing Plate would somehow interfere with his surgebinding. Most theories presumed that this was a limitation of modern Plate (which explained why the Radiants in the visions could Windrun in Plate) but Renarin surgebinding in Dalinar's old Plate would seem to contradict this. So either we're misreading what Renarin was doing, or Szeth wasn't entirely correct. 

There is definately some kind of interaction between Plate and a Radiant's use of stormlight (see Kaladin in the area) but the exact nature remains unclear, I think. 

Edit: wow, double ninja'd. 

All right, I'm in a post-y mood. Let's see...

Kylo Ren is the best character in Episode VII.

The grind-fest at the end of Shadow of War isn't that bad.

The storytelling in the Five Nights at Freddy's games is excellent.

Candy corn is the best and should be sold year-round.

1 hour ago, Marethyu316 said:

I don't think that I disagree with you. From a sociological perspective, that is a good description of how morality shifts and is culturally situated.

When I said "someone", I guess I was thinking of the person or people who have to take up the active enforcement of that morality, but you're right that each person plays a role in that enforcement as a part of the culture, even if they do so by not acting or just by tacit agreement. 

That doesn't mean that I don't believe that there is a standard beyond the ones that are culturally prescripted, but it is impossible for me to interact with those outside of the culture that I live in and that frames my way of thinking.

You've basically just said what I've spent the last 20 minutes trying to compose. So...thanks?

In a weird way, I agree with @Calderis in that morality is byproduct of the natural consequences of actions. I just also believe there are meta-physical consequences to our actions that aren't readily visible to our limited human perception. I guess when I say "absolute morality", that's really all I mean. I'm also arrogant (errorgant?) enough to think my religion teaches those consequences properly when most others get it wrong .

I also second the love for the engaging and civil discussion. Calderis, you're extra-awesome for having to defend your position against the rest of us. Those who come by their beliefs (or lack thereof) honestly are always better than blind zealots, by my reckoning.

Also, sweet Harmony, it takes me forever to write posts, which is part of why I rarely jump into active discussions. 

Edit: it just occurred to me that comparing people to "blind zealots" isn't a very high bar, but hopefully ya'll get what I mean. Self-examination is good. Moving on now...

*Deep breath* Okay, jumping in on the discussion of morality!

My beliefs on the subject ultimately boil down to: absolute truth and morality exist, but we humans are often so bad at discerning them, that we just have to muddy through and, as Nohadon says, take things on a case-by-case basis. I leave it to God to clean up when our judgement falls short (which is often). (As an aside @Calderis, I find your statement that "Moral absolutes ... eventually find everyone guilty" very interesting, because that's exactly what my theology says. Hence the need for a perfect Savior to redeem everyone. )

Concerning Taravangian: I think what we need to acknowledge is that, in my opinion, his long-term decision making ability is significantly impaired. Think about it: he oscillates between sociopathy and genius to over-sensitivity and near-vegitativness. While not often to these extremes, his perceptions of the world still shifts daily.  As someone with a bipolar disorder, I can bear witness to how shifting mental states can seriously mess-up how you see things long-term (forgetting even the short-term problems). Think about how someone with depression can lose the ability to see positive things in the world. Now replace that with a megalomaniacal delusion that you can make all the best decisions for everyone in the world (and that you could convince people of this). This is not conducive to making sound rational decisions, no matter how "smart" you are. 

Consider Taravangian's own observation that, at extreme levels of intelligence, he can be nearly as "stupid" as at the same level of dimwitted-ness. Now consider that the Diagram was made when he was transcendentally brilliant. The fact that Average!Taravangian puts so much faith in the Diagram is what causes me the most concern. He doesn't even really know what the end-goal of the Diagram is; he doesn't remember writing it, and has himself acknowledged how much his world-view can shift with his intelligence. (Note that this changes somewhat if the Diagram was the direct result of outside influence, but what's important here is Taravangian's viewpoint).

This is where I struggle. He obviously feels guilt over his actions and feels he is beyond redemption, but, as others have pointed out, this does nothing to change his behavior. As far as we know, even at his most empathetic, he doesn't do anything to alter course. This consistent, blind faith in an entity he knows to be a sociopathic megalomaniac is...if not evil in and of itself is either bafflingly arrogant or foolhardy. Then again, some of the decisions I've made while hypomanic probably appeared a little arrogant and foolhardy...The Point (TM) is that, no matter how good an idea it seemed at the time, I should not have spent $100+ dollars on GURPS supplements, and Taravangian should not be following the mad rantings of his super-powered evil side.

Looping back to my original point, I don't think we quite have the necessary perspective to judge Good or Evil in this case. He's effectively suffering from a mental disorder impairing his judgment as well as what is effectively religious zealotry, both of which make it harder to adequately weigh his intentions. So, for now I'll go with "greatly misguided, and in need of a good butt-kicking". Cudos to Sanderson for writing such interesting characters that make us confront and examine our own morality.

As far as him becoming a radiant, I'd like to think that the entry requirements result in radiants tending to be better people overall...but I would not be at all surprised to see him end up as a Bondsmith.

2 minutes ago, podman36 said:

I would upvote that, except I'm scared it'll change the honorific.

Too late, someone thoughtlessly upvoted me in another thread. Now I am Svrakiss! *rawr*

When "Torturer of Heralds" is considered an honorific.

Hmm...how could Mraize sense the Midnight Mother...

*ponders*

The midnight essence bleed when you cut them, but their "blood" is smokey, insubstantial...ghost-like.

You might say they have...Ghostblood . 

While there obviously seems to be a connection between Lightweavers and the Midnight Mother...smoke is the essence associated with Skybreakers, and they're not even directly opposite Lightweavers on the chart. Darn you Unmade for not lining up perfectly with Vorin mysticism! *shakes fist*

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Pattern whimpered, huddled against Shallan in his shape of a man with a stiff robe and a moving pattern for a head. She tried to shield him from the onslaught.

Did this give anyone else all the feels?

This battle was awesome on multiple levels. I really want to know the story of the Midnight Mother's previous confrontation with a Lightweaver. 

Speaking of which:

Quote

The imprisonment had been unexpected, presumed impossible.

Anyone think this is related to Gavilar's black spheres and other trapped, ancient spren?

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A solitary figure hovering above the ground before a large blue disc, arms stretched to the side as if to embrace it.

So...anyone else strongly reminded of a suspiciously similar mural in Elantris? I don't have the book on me so I can't quote it...

Forget Halloween, it's Upvote Tuesday! 

Has anyone put forth the theory that the book is written by Oathbringer itself? Meaning, the (newly revived?) spren who died and whose corpse we now refer to as the shardblade Oathbringer?

Highly implausible, yes. But this is Sanderson. 

Anyone else suspicious of the fact that Jezrien's honorblade is so accurately depicted?