Robinski

Yes, welcome back. It was just starting to get dicey there, and looked like I was going to have to count higher than 2.

No, I was complaining about the grammar. When a publisher uses 'less' when it should be 'fewer', I start to get a bad feeling In all seriousness though, I would value your opinion as a published author, which I know will be completely honest (to a fault ). I was thinking about submitting TMM. What do you think? Give it to me straight.

...although, this is very off-putting!!! From AR FAQs "We want you to send us the entire novel, so it will need to be finished. If we contract it for publishing, there will be the usual editing rounds, but as you can imagine the better it is, the less reasons we will have to reject it." Arrrrrrgggghhhhh!!!

If there's a seat at the table come Sunday eve, I will ante up.

Thanks @kais - well spotted. I do believe I might have a punt at this.

Didn't notice it. I see there are 9 x Fs and 1 x Sh. No biggy for me, but then I am now immune to swearing, since TMM has 85 Sh, 110 Fs, 21 Bs, 1 W, 1 P and 5 As. No, it's not really mainstream-targetted I. Agree. With. @Mandamon I'm reassured that it wasn't just me. That I did find clear enough, when Lisa was counting the CAGs. I was okay with that bit. I thought that was clear, for what it's worth. I felt I knew what Lisa was looking for, and her reaction to the high count was clearly to become upset. I didn't really get that. I thought that it what the ending was implying, but I didn't think it was clear, so I was left in doubt. Better late than as late as Robinski!! Yes. I was having a bit of trouble seeing the different positions of each sister. I agree that you've made a good effort at this. Is it first draft? I think you can improve it with some easy wins. The ending definitely was a downer for me, so how about giving us a positive take-away by having the two sisters connect? Like maybe Lyn actually physical reaching out to Lisa at the end of the story. I just wanted to feel better at the end. It was a brave move though, and you've made a good start. Well done.

Glad to be reading another one of your submissions, and please excuse the delay in responding, totally Nanowrimo’s fault… Repetition of ‘door’. “along with the motion” – do you mean along with the sound, as I presume she’s rolling her eyes along with the sigh. “drilling through the doors” – did you mean ‘door’ singular? I think there only was one before. At first, I thought that Lisa had come to her sister’s apartment to visit, then the vase threw me, but it was only when Lisa walked into the room that I twigged they were at home (I presume?). Something at the start made me thing of the sisters being older, i.e. having their own places. The laptop on the rug makes me nervous. I'm concerned that the air intake/outlet is blocked. “the same kind I would see on a computer modeling system” – I presume this is a computer modelling system. I think ‘wireframe’ would be one word in this case. “but he also gave me the DNA of Kim Il-Sung’s” – Grammar. Some of Kim’s DNA. “Please do tell me if you find out what something in his code that made him ruin millions of lives” – grammar / typos. The bit about ancestors is not clear. I don’t know what she’s trying to say/imply. But she’s not trapped alone. She’s trapped with Lyn. “while he’s still a single cell in the lab” – I know very little about genetics, but I'm willing to bet that their brother is not a single cell in a lab, or he wouldn’t be their brother. I mean, how quickly do human cells divide? Pretty quickly, surely. “You should drop your biology major and become a comedian.” – LOL. Funny line. “No occupation really works well for someone like me” – I find this line obscure. I don’t know what Lisa is like, so I can’t evaluate it. Not sure about ‘whittle’ either. “little early to be assigning a gender to a single cell” – I don’t know, but again. Not a single cell, surely. At this point, there’s some good snappy byplay between the sisters, but I find myself not really caring about what their talking about. “I keep forgetting that people are storming stupid” – LOL. Good line. “Lyn, please don’t tell” – Don’t tell what? I don’t follow. “clicking a dozen letters per second” – not possible. “zooms in on Chromosome Four” – I think. It’s a name, after all. I don’t understand the ending. Summary: I think you have some very nice byplay and dialogue between the sisters. I thought you handled the characters well, although I did feel that their positions throughout the story were not entirely consistent. In terms of the science, well, I don’t know anything about it, so it need to take your word for it, which is fair enough. I thought you handled the viewing of the DNA sequence well. My big issue was that the stakes felt remote. I couldn’t get invested in the outcome of the story and so, while the mechanics were good, the ending didn’t really hit me. I could see Lisa had a strong reaction, and that was good, as was seeing some sort of connection between the sisters, but it didn’t follow the outcome and I didn’t really care about the consequences, because I didn’t have enough connection with the characters in such a short space of time, I think. Bottom line, I think a story about a disease, especially a real, live human one, is going to be a very tough sell. I read to be entertained, so I'm left on a downer. Don’t know it that helps or not. I liked spending some time with the sisters, and I'm sure the narrative can be tidied up / clarified but, in the end, I just feel bad. <R>

Yup, totally agree. More practice writing old folks required! Another excellent point. I think this goes to my comment about depth. There is a good opportunity to build some background and world around these people before forging ahead, especially since the scene as written is so short. Not poorly, just needs work. Keep going Not boring. I think you've got some good potential and are really going to improve quickly if you've just started out. Having a good direct style at the beginning, I think, is a great place to start, and an easier place to improve from by adding depth and detail as you gain experience. Have the listed to the Writing Excuses podcasts? Are you signed up to David Farland's newsletter? Or listened to Brandon's online lectures? (YooToob) These are good sources of sound advice on writing, and really will get you thinking. Secondly, most heartily

Straight on to the next bit. I love catching up! (Page 1, Paragraph 1, Line 1) – I haven’t read your post: I like to go into subs clean, but I will do before I put these comments up. I presume from the title that you propose this as an alternative to the climbing scene? If that’s the case, my opinion would be not to have two scenes with old people together in dusty old rooms. Having the young people in peril, but struggling against the elements is far preferable to this alternative, which I guess then would come after Chapter 1? (1,1,3) – “her Masters’ Master’s side” – singular possessive, not plural possessive (if you see what I mean). (1,3,1) – So, Shy is old, but Fla is her master, so even older? (1,5,1) – “It’s too late for me, child.” – comma required, because there is a (slight) pause before the form of address (or a name, in the same situation). Like in (1,9,1), where you do have the comma at the start of the sentence. (1,5,3) – The names ‘Sand Council’ and ‘Sand Lord’ are rather simplistic. These are opportunities for world-building, for depth of setting, creating a sense of history, geography, language, etc. but these names are rather generic, and don’t take advantage of the opportunity. Your character names do go towards achieving that, which is good, but I would like to see more in the other terms. It does mean change everything, but consider doing more building. (1,9,2) – the word ‘master’ appears ten times on the first page. I was getting a bit fed up of seeing it and reading it. I’d look at thinning them out a bit. Also on the first page, Fla is very talkative for a woman with a spike through her chest. I think you would find there is no way she can vocalise that well. Think of the death scenes you’ve seen in movies. Vocalisation requires breathing. How well do you think you could speak with a spike through your chest? (2,1,1) – You don’t need a dialogue tag after every piece of dialogue. Also, I like how Shy is resisting this. She’s being very selfish in this scene, considering that her master is dying. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, unless you don’t intend her character to be that way, but it could be a good thing if you played it up as a character trait. (2,5,3) – I like learning Shy’s age, but I'm not sure this is the place to reveal it. I’m not sure how relevant it was here. (2,6,3) – Ooh, yes, there’s that selfish strand again. All about Shy. (2,7,2) – Hmm, why does she fall to the floor again? That really is very weak. Also, the line about telling people what to do is simplistic. I would look for more accurate, almost more mature ways to phrase things. This is a 60-year-old woman, after all. She might think something like ‘She had finally gained a measure of authority over the others.’ for example. I think the simpler phrasing is fine for the teenagers, btw. Much more in character. (3,1,1) – I'm puzzled how she’s the only one. Also, I'm not 100% confident of the time line. You said Fang did the dead yesterday, so haven’t they found the bodies? Maybe not, it just seems a long time for the murders not to be discovered. Summary: Interesting enough scene, and quite compelling, but I don’t know if I feel enough for Shy to be particularly invested in her being raised to master, or all that convinced by her emotional reaction. You’ve promised conflict and politicking however, which is good. I think I would have like to see more depth in the scene though, an explanation of the circumstances that led Shy to the room. How does this room relate to the other room? Maybe Shy could find the bodies that Fang left, and then come across her fallen master. I just felt it needed something more. Ah, so I've read your comments now. I wonder if in fact you could have this as a second part of the prologue. There are no rules at all, if you do whatever you want to do well, and certainly nothing that says you can’t have two POVs in a prologue. I think this would elevate the prologue, and give is someone (Shy) to latch onto for going forward into the main story. <R>

Yeah. I was willing to suck that up to some extent, the generic teenager thing, but I do agree with @Mandamon. This is your first and best opportunity to instil character in your characters, not just the main one. With a mere word or two, you can do wonders. Sprinkling adjectives around is a dangers business, but a couple of well-placed ones can work wonders. Sar might have pulled Den up onto the sword 'irritably', or 'with a grim smile' making her confident and/or capable. In relation to Den, he seems to have a clear sense of justice and moral certitude (right-and-wrong), but that's a bit generic. That is one root to go with your MC, a blank slate so that the reader can project onto them, but I think that means your other characters have to be that much more interesting and engaging, entertaining; and that runs that risk of the reader liking one of the others more than the MC. Yeah. Reassuring that the engineers had the same issues with this Yes, thank you, @Master OoklaJack (what's all this Ookla stuff all over here suddenly? Is that from Oathbringer? I'm so far behind on Sanderson it'll be years before I get to that . Anyway, yes, it's great that you have kept us going!! Yes, totally agree, and stumbled to say in too many words. The most important thing is to keep going, learning, refining and improving. There's definitely good work here, imo. ID's point about the dead girl is excellent, and just highlights how important it is to think about all of the characters, and not have any generic canon fodder in your story. Give them all a couple of lines of back-story, even if they won't have a major part, because it will allow you to know how to treat them to make them seem 3D when they are 'on screen'. That sort of approach is also likely to generate ideas that will make your story richer, deeper. It might take you off on tangents, but that can work really well sometimes. Certainly not two at a time, which I think was the most on one sword. I still like the premise of the scene. How to tackle the problem? You could make them putlog holes, which would be an easy and totally logical solution. It would take out the sharpness elements, but that was not so important, I thought, that it could not be refined. Their hands could still be ragged and torn, wrapped in cloth, just from the sheer work and damage of climbing up a hundred feet of wall. Or perhaps from a previous part of the trial before they entered this room. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putlog_hole Hmm, I'm not entirely sure that you might not be able to keep 'afloat', just by doggy-paddling, but I do tend to agree that swimming down into deep water is unlikely. How to fix? Could someone have told him how to swim? Maybe he grabs Sar as she's falling past, instinctively, and he gets dragged down after her, then figures out pushing off the wall, so there is no actual swimming involved? I think there is a solution to this. Also, thinking back to what I said before about using all the sense, remember that, in deep water, there will be considerable pressure on Den's ears. Always be willing, I think, to spend increase time spent thinking compared to time actually typing, I think it makes everyone's writing better. I'm still trying to do that in my own writing, as I tend to charge off when I could consider detail more. Time to reset the counter, @kais... Hey, @Master OoklaJack. I admire your can-do attitude to this, and willingness to embrace the critiques. Well done! It's a pleasure to have someone on board who is so clearly committed to improving as a writer. I look forward to reading more. And kudos on taking the inspiration too. The pariah girl does sound like a good story! As does the old woman warrior, and I'm sure both would be a good challenge to write and expand skills.

So, interested to see where this goes after the Prologue, which did not really give any clues as to where the main story would take place, and who would feature in it. (Page 1, Para.1, Line 2) – I’m sceptical about the ability of a sword to bear that much weight. Swords flex, unless they are special swords, magically imbued, or some such. (1,2,1) – I’m a bit confused. Is ‘the girl’ Sar? It seems like this is another girl. If it’s not another girl, surely she’s on the same sword as Den, in which case she can’t pull it out. Also, if she is on a sword that is head height above the one below it, there’s no way that I can see she can reach down to pull it out. (1,2,2) – The other difficulty with jamming the swords in the wall, is that they are close to the wall, and so it is going to be very difficult to get any kind of leverage to get the sword in very deep. I like the idea here, but it’s stretching my credulity that it’s practical. How long would a sword need to be to drive it into a wall far enough to support two people and leave enough sword exposed for two people to stand on it? I know movies would do this with some hand-wavium, but I feel like I need something more to sell me on it here. (1,4,2) – “Sands, his arms were tired.” – comma needed to make this work as an exclamation, I think. (1,4,3) – “keep this up from for much longer” – typo. (1,4,4) – “the razor-sharp edge exposed” – hyphen required, I believe. (1,5,3) – ‘Smooth sandstone wall” suggests even more difficulty in pushing the swords in. I presume in fact there are mortar joints which, by definition, would be weaker than the stone, and that is where they are pushing the swords in. I guess you can still have smooth sandstone with mortar joints. My point in going on about that swords is that I think you need to take the description a touch further to give the reader something to hang their incredulity on. More on that later, though. (1,6,1) – I thought it was a girl below him, now it’s a boy? I think there’s a continuity issue there, since the girl was stated as being on the lowest rung. Also, why does ‘the girl’ not get a name when Den and Sar do? (1,6,3) – Again, the blocking – the physical position of things in the scene, I can’t reconcile it. The swords must by roughly 6 feet apart. I'm struggling to believe anyone can reach down to someone below and stay on their sword. (1,6,4) – I would suggest it’s not appropriate to use numerals in fantasy. It’s about the feel of the piece. I would expect to see numeral in SF, occasionally, where large number are concerned, but never in a fantasy, especially with something as common as ages. Don’t take my word for it, though. Take down a Sanderson book from your shelf, or consider the book you are reading. I’ll lay a modest wager that the number will be in word form. (1,7,3) – I'm not sure it’s a void if it’s full of water. ‘Void’ is defined as space, nothingness, emptiness. (1,7,4) – The reason it’s up to the girl’s thighs is that Den is dawdling about thinking of his mother when Sar is beyond him! It does very much read like he’s causing the problem here. You suggest not in the next line, but why would she not be getting on with it while’s he’s having his internal thoughts? (2,1,2) – I’d prefer that confirmation of him not knowing her name much earlier. I think it would help with my second comment of not being sure if it’s the same girl (as Sar). (2,2,2) – Continuity issue, I think. Here, they are fifty feet from the top (I see you’ve used words instead of numerals ) At the start, they had hundred feet to go, but Den has not climbed up a single step, only Sar has climbed past him, and she can only climb one step, or he won’t be able to pass the next sword up. (2,2,3) – Why on Earth would he give up? The survival instinct is very strong. I don’t believe this thought, when he is showing a strong sense of duty to the others. This feel inconsistent for the character. (2,3,1) – Another blocking issue. If the swords are only five feet apart, how can they stand upright on them? I suppose they could be staggered laterally, but that isn’t described. I think five feet separation is a much better option for the climbing. What I don’t want is lot more explanation, but it wouldn’t need that to clarify this point earlier. (2,6,1) – Ahhh, there’s something off here. If the water is up to ‘the girl’s chest, she must be reaching way down into the water to pull out the sword, but that sword must be the one she’s standing on, so how can she pull it out, unless actually she is reaching down about nine or ten feet into the water to pull out the sword below that. I just don’t see how it can work. Personally, I think you need to draw this on a bit of paper to check the details, because I'm really not getting the blocking of this bit. (2,11,1) – If Sar falls off, I don’t see any way she will hit a sword on the way down. Surely, she is going to fall away from the wall, even if she falls to the side, I'm just sceptical about the physical of this bit. Ha-ha. Okay, here’s another thing, and I should have thought if this earlier. If they just jump into the water, they will float to the top of the wall. Why would they not do that? I suppose there must be a reason, or they would not be climbing, but the only apparent reason is that they haven’t really thought that bit through. Perhaps it’s because they would be disqualified, perhaps the water is so icy cold that they would die before they got to the top. Anyway, I'm interested to see what happens now. (2,14,5) – “its dark hands” – typo. (3,3,1) – I wasn’t sure he still had a grip of Sar. You might say ‘propelled them towards the distant surface.’ The fact that they can’t swim is the answer to my point about why don’t they just float to the surface, I suppose. I think you need to answer that. I guess you did say something earlier about them never having seen water (or something), I seem to remember (can’t find it now), but I would underline that at some point. (3,13,2) – I would like a short description of where they others are standing: on top of the wall, on the roof, on the edge of the chimney, whatever it is. Just to help the blocking. (3,15,2) – I don’t like the implication here that she would not have made it alone, but he would. I expect what’s going to happen here is that you’re going to get some comments about the female role in this chapter. Now, I don’t get the sense that Den has been the ‘hero’ as such and the female characters have all been weak. They have been climbing too, and it was a boy that fell off* Having said that, I think you should consider increasing the agency of the female characters a bit. Sar does take the initiative at the end here, and you could interject ‘a couple’ or more additional lines for her along the way, to show he being encouraging or commanding. Beware of defaulting to the white male being the centre of everything. It’s not that you need to make your main character other than that, just be sure to give other characters their moments. (4,1,1) – Gah. Right, I’ve got a problem with them starting to disrobe. Why wasn’t flappy clothing a problem earlier, restricting them when they were climbing? I appreciate it’s heavier now, being wet, but if it’s stuck to them, in some ways it would be less cumbersome. This just seems a bit gratuitous and unnecessary. Also, they are so close to the top, only fifteen feet away, which is not much short of two person-heights. Taking off garments just feels like wasting time. (4,1,3) – Extending the point above, I did not mind the ‘personal moment’ that they had on the sword earlier, when they were supporting each other (did you describe Sar holding onto Den, or was it just him holding her? I forget now, but I would beware of that coming over sexist and making her seem submissive). Anyway, that bit has potential for being a Luke-and-Leia (ew!), Indy and Marion kind of moment (note how both of those are strong female characters with significant agency of their own). My point above was, there’s a line beyond which him gawping at her curves is gratuitous when they are busy trying to save each other’s lives. Personally, I think the reference to her curves goes beyond what’s reasonable in this situation, but the part where they are clinging to each other is okay, provided it’s suitably even handed. (4,4,1) – It’s good that Sar helps him, which to me implies that he needs her help. (4,5,3) – “it slowly sank sunk until it no longer covered…” – ‘sunk’ is the past participle of ‘sink’, as in ‘it had sunk’, ‘sank’ is past tense, which is the context you have here. (4,5,4) – I don’t like ‘the ground of the room’. A room has a floor. The ground is bare and outside, imho. (4,5,5) – Okay, the girl is dead. You’re going to get fridging comments here, I'm sure, and I’m afraid they seem to be warranted here. I think there is any easy way to fix that however, and it’s a great opportunity for growth as a writer. Earlier on, a boy slipped and Den pulled him back up. The nameless girl falls off a drowns. Why have it that way around? Why does the boy drown and the girl survive? That’s an important question to ask yourself, I think. BUT, here’s the opportunity for evening things up. Why not have the boy drown too. Then, they would be lying together at the bottom of the room, together in death, closer than they ever were in life. You could make something out of that, a strong even-handed image to close the chapter on, and evocative portrait of wasted youth, and NOT a seen where you fridged the female character. (4,7,1) – But was saw her slipping off the sword. This seems like a continuity issue. (4,8,1) – Yep, classic fridging. Death of a female character, and even worse, a nameless one, to create sympathy for the male protagonist. I'm about to post this up, but I’m sure you're going to get it for this. Keep an open mind and you will grow as a writer. I’m off to read the comments now. Summary: A good level of action which kept me reading, but I think this needs a good overhaul. It is a bit repetitive in places, and I think would benefit from greater clarity of description in places, but almost a bit less in other places. Although I'm sceptical about the physical of it, I can see it happening in an Indiana Jones movie, or perhaps one inspired by. Maybe a Tomb Raider movie. It’s not a bad premise, I don’t think. I’d be happier suspending my disbelief if you tightened up on some of the details, as per my comments. The fridging thing is an issue, but I think you can fix that by being even-handed in how you treat the male and female characters. Dial down the male gaze (i.e. Den regarding Sar’s curves, etc.) and don’t hang all of Den’s anger on the death of a nameless female. The boy is nameless too – being even-handed would be to kill him too. I'm still engaged by the style of your writing. I still think it’s good for such a new writer, and only will improve with practice. I still think the story has potential, and that you're balancing action and background reasonably well. What I would look for now, in the spirit of that balance, is probably a scene sequel, where there is some consideration of what happened, or what life it for the characters; a bit of world-building to place the reader in the setting. Decent job, but with issues which, no doubt, were discussed at length! Of to the comments thread <R>

Why thank you!

I totally forgot how old TH was. I think you could remind the reader of that, because he fights like a younger man. Hmm, I'm not sure that the tension would have been as effective if this intro had been longer and in two settings. Yeah, see I would have liked to know this, as it gives context to the stakes of the story. How to do it? Why not just put this information here right into the story? You could summarise it and place it in TH's thoughts, just s the reader understands the mechanism. Is this how the other cities were destroyed, were their stones stolen or removed? I don't need to know specifically what FT is going to use the stone for, or why he needs it, but I just want it emphasised, maybe at the end of this part, that FT is going to take the stone away, and that the city will die. Yeah, I must say I had the same problems with some of the titles, as per my own comments. I think perhaps it is because they are rather simplistic. It starts me thinking what you do instead. You could give the, unique names, but then you'd need to explain them, which could be a bit clunky. Saying, TH is a Soura, and FT is a Koldar (e.g.) - it starts to add world-building, but doesn't help with explaining what those are. You could use transparent names, as you've done, but maybe make them a bit more sophisticated or mysterious, like - I dunno, say Sharp Hand, Hard Hand, Swift Hand, which kind of borrows from the meaning of Karate, which (literally) is 'empty hand'. Yeah, I had the same problem. I agree with @Mandamon but, as usual, take WAY too many words to do it I got into the story because of the solid tension building and action, but to make me stay with it, totally agreeing with @kais, I need strong characters, and by that I mean interesting and complex, probably flawed. It's the danger in having a prologue that doesn't feature any of your main characters/protag. Personally, I think you've pulled it off here, but need to start the next bit immediately with a strong and characterful opening, and looking at @Mandamon and @kais's comments about diversity. It's just more interesting. Maybe you've done that in the next bit. I'm just about to find out! This is an interesting idea. Or, you could make the antagonist a woman, because her beating up an old man would add another dimension to your villain which, at the moment, I think they could do with.

Ahoy, Master Jack!! Welcome to RE. I always get excited to read a new author on here, so I’m pleased to delve into your first submission. Sorry these comments are so late: I blame Nanowrimo. Hopefully they are still useful. Onwards and upwards… (Page 1, Paragraph 1, Line 1) – I saw there was comment on the character’s name. I don’t read posts before I read the submission, but I think I noticed this one when I was looking at your profile page. I like names, and I don’t mind complex ones. I believe that the key is for the reader to take a second or two to sound it out and get it right first time, then it should work going through the story. I learned this the hard way, by reading the entirety of Lord of the Rings believing that Strider’s true name was “Aragon”; it was many years before I noticed the other ‘r’ in ‘Aragorn’. Silly me. Sorry, that was rambling, but I think the name is good, and I think it’s a strong first line. (Page 1, Para. 1) – I like the set up. I think it’s a strong opening. The last city on an entire planet, I think, evokes a strong sense of loneliness and isolation. I want to know more about what happened to the other cities. That’s a promise you have made to the reader, to answer that question at some point. (P1,P1,L3) – I will say that ‘the Council’ is rather weak. 4 out of 5 SFF novels have a ‘Council’ in them. If you're familiar with the Reading Excuses podcasts, you may know the phrase ‘low hanging fruit’, as used fairly often by Howard Tayler. The Council feels a bit like the first name that came to mind, but there are many other names that that are less used that could create more atmosphere, catch the reader’s attention by being different. Just by way of example: conclave; gathering; congress; caucus. Just using a thesaurus might spark an idea that you find helps to enliven your story, give it depth, by not picking the low hanging fruit, but dispending with the 1st and 2nd choices and keeping looking for alternatives. (1,2,2) – If TH says something to himself, it would not be in “quotes”, I think, but perhaps italics. If you're ever in doubt about something like that, the absolute best solution is to take a novel down off your shelf and see how published works deal with these things. (1,2,4) – Why would the masked me answer, when he ‘said’ the words to himself? Unless, did he whisper them, sotto voce, for only him to hear? I did not get that from the way you phrased it. (1,3,4) – I'm a little confused by some of the phrasing when he’s thinking about the stone. It sounded a bit to me like he was thinking about how he could be powerful, but actually, I think he was noting that an individual who stole the stone would be very powerful. (1,4,1) – The ‘Slasher’ monastery struck me as an odd name, it sounds like violence is a religion. That makes me start to think about Warhammer, and things of that ilk. (1,5,-) – By the end of Page 1, I am engaged enough to keep reading. I don’t know an awful lot about the world or the situation, but you’ve created enough tension and atmosphere to keep me reading. Good job, so far. (2,1,8) – I like what he’s doing to ‘seal’ the Life Stone in the pedestal, but I was a bit disoriented, and did not quite see how things fitted together. It seems a complex thing to describe, and think it’s a decent effort but, for me, a dais is a bigger thing than what it seems to be here, which is a small, plate-sized(?), piece that the stone is resting on, which them drops into the pedestal? Also, tense. I think it’s ‘sank’ not ‘sunk’, personally. As an engineer, I enjoyed the twisting and clicking though. I think with some refining, that will be a neat passage. (2,2,3) – I don’t know what a Swifter is, but it doesn’t sound all that threatening. (3,1,2) – I think the doors blowing in is good, and it’s a moment of action early in the story, which also is good, but I think some of the description around the doors could be tidied up. There’s mention of ‘door’ and ‘doors’, then there’s the reference to the doors putting out the torches in the room, and I'm not sure how that happens. Was it a shock wave, a blast of air? I’m struggling a bit to believe it was pieces of the actual doors themselves. (3,2,-) – Something I try to work on in my own writing is using specific words, not general ones. In this sentence “To any normal person, it would have seemed as hard as sandstone, to a Slasher like himself, it was like a knife through…” I'm not sure what ‘it’ is. I can sort of work it out, but I think it would be smoother reading if I didn’t have to think about and work out certain details, but can just absorb them. It’s very much an editing thing, I think, and the sort of thing one would pick up when going back through a piece. (3,4,2) – Sandstone chest plate; that’s an interesting detail. As an engineer, I'm interested in how that would work. Seems to me that sandstone thin enough for a man to wear would be weak against an impact and likely to break quite easily. Thick enough sandstone would be super heavy to wear. So, I'm thinking that the stone armour must be magically treated/imbued in some way as to make it thin and strong. (3,5,4) – I’m a little puzzled that the guards seem to be just standing there waiting to be attacked and killed. I think it’s a problem with a lot of fiction, that ‘spear carriers’ as Reading Excuses tend to refer to them, are only there to be cannon fodder, and don’t act as a real person might. I think dealing with that sort of detail can bring a story up a level Here, for example, would the guards not maybe try to attack FT, to rush him, since there are (were) four of them originally? Our at least try to attack him once he begins picking them off? What would the guard do if he was the main character? I think that’s a useful way to think about it to make their behaviour more realistic. It doesn’t mean that the outcome will be any different, but it will (I think) make some encounters more convincing. (4,3,2) – I find the spear part a bit confusing. It sounds clearly like TH has thrown the spear, but then FT whips him to the side as if TH is still holding it. I think the description of what happens to the spear could be clearer. (4,5,3) – It seems to me that sandstone would not crack, which implies to me that it is still in one (cracked) piece. Once there is a discontinuity in sandstone, I'm thinking that it would break. I have no problem believing that it would shatter, or maybe crumble. (4,5,6) – Swearing. I think you have to be cautious about that. Does it fit the context of the story and the situation? Maybe. I can understand that TH is desperate, and that he might use the ‘b’ word. Is it necessary, does it add to the story? It certainly stands out, and hit me. What I'm a bit more doubtful of is whether FT has earned it. I mean that in the sense of how convincing he is as a villain. He’s cold and murderous, so far, certainly, but I don’t know what he’s trying to do and why, so I'm not totally sold on how bad he is yet. I think writing good, convincing villains is harder than writing main characters. I do like how offhand FT is in the next paragraph when he dismisses TH. That worked pretty well for me. (5,2,1) – I'm not sure why FT would need to turn. Is he not facing TH? That’s a bit unclear, I think. (5,3,1) – The repetition of ‘forward’ is awkward. (5,3,3) – Internal dialogue should be in italics, to distinguish it from narrative, I believe. (5,4,2) – Repetition of ‘face’ is awkward. I think any time you can use a different word instead of repeating the same one is going to be more interesting for the reader, and sound less clunky. But don’t take my word for it In this case, for example, consider the comparison of the original with “They carried the pedestal up to FangTar’s face, the light of the Life Stone illuminating his face features.” (5,7,1) – I'm not entirely convinced about TH being ‘crippled’. He doesn’t seem to have taken all that much damage, and the thing that put him down was a slap to the face. I’d be more convinced if some limb had been broken in the fight to actually cripple him. (5.7.2) – Ah, here’s a description issue. I thought the stone was much bigger than that, like maybe tennis ball size, but I guess not if it fits in a pendant. Maybe the first description of the stone could be clearer, or maybe I missed something. (5,8,1) – “You Sands-cursed bastard” – I think this should be hyphenated. I think of it as a compound adjective. I know there is bound to be an actual grammatical term for it that I don’t know, but that’s how I think of it. (6,2,1) – This kind of underlines my point about TH being crippled, or rather not being so. (6,2,3) – Again, in relation to the sandstone, I'm not entirely convinced about it being sharp to the point that it would pierce someone’s skin. That sounds more like the behaviour and characteristics of glass. (6,3,1) – I'm a bit underwhelmed here, because I thought that the stone was much more powerful than just giving multiple powers. It was described earlier as powering the whole world, and that the planet would die if it was taken away. The description here sounds a lot less powerful than that, I think. Also, again, the names of the classes. For me, they don’t sound all that cool. For example, my head tells me that ‘Thumper’ is a character from Bambi, (6,4,2) – When describing swordplay, I suggest reading other (published) examples of it to get good terminology, or even just use simple terms that are more threatening/violent-sounding. ‘overhand blow’, for me, is rather awkward and not all that threatening, compared to something like ‘vicious slash’ or ‘crushing attack’, for example. (6,4,4) – typo, ‘posses’ > ‘possess’ (6,5,3) – I like how dismissively FT walks away, although it could be seen to be a bit careless; not checking to see if his opponent is actually dead. (6,5,4) – I'm not keen on the term ‘bleed out’, personally, in a fantasy work, because I think it’s a modern term and so it doesn’t really fit the classical/pseudo-historical tone of a fantasy story. In my opinion, avoiding using modern words will make your story sound more convincing and authentic. Just a personal view. Summary: I enjoyed this. There was lots of action, which is good for the opening of a story, and it also introduced lots of concepts of how magic works in this world, which is good to get early in a story. I think there is some refinement to be done to make it flow better, but that is the same for pretty much anything, so not a problem, but an opportunity for later edits. The one thing I would like to have been sold on more was the power of the stone and why FT was stealing it. What is his plan? What are the consequences? You sort of explained some of the stakes in terms of the word dying if the stone is removed, but FT simply wanting power doesn’t seem all that compelling a reason to support a whole novel. What I'm getting at is that an awful lot of stories are about saving the world, and it becomes a bit boring, done so many times before. I think stories can be improved a good deal if they are about more than that but, so far, I don’t get a lot of sense of what the novel’s going to be about. That of course is what drafts are for, but overall I think you're writing style is solid and readable. Even though there wasn’t a lot of description, I felt like I was in a dusty underground chamber. You could look to use some of the other senses more in description. That’s something I'm trying to get better at, giving a small detail of colour or smell to bring up the setting more. I’m looking forward to moving on now from the introduction to see where this story goes. I don’t think there were all that many promises really. Let’s see: (1) the story will be about retrieving the stone, I think; (2) also about saving the world, which I think is the consequence of the stone being taken; (3) FT is the baddy, it seems; (4) there will be magic, possibly some space stuff, as you mentioned ‘planet’. That’s really all I'm getting. Personally, I'd have liked a few more and maybe an indication of the main character, which I'm guessing will not be either FT or TH. Good job for a first submission. For a new writer, I think you're off to a great start, you’ve got a pretty strong and direct style which I like, and that should only get better as you learn more skills, and learn to find a voice/style that is recognisably your own. <R>

Yes, that was my reaction too. My smile did slip each time I found a missing comma though. ..... I must say my view is the opposite. Get rid of Paul. I feel like the narrator is speaking directly to me, that I'm in the pub with him. I bought into the mood of the piece and the atmosphere of the pub, just through the framing. Yeah, I underline my comments about the beginning and putting the footnote in the text. The start is sooooo important; don't distract the reader, make it as easy as possible for them to read right into it. Make it impossible for them to look away until they get at least to the bottom of the first page. On the excerpt thing. I am completely bamboozled as to how this can go anywhere else. For me, it read as a snappy and entertaining short, but there is nothing here that implies depth of setting, character, etc. I was entertained, but now I'm off to the next thing. That's not a criticism, by the way. I would say that is a positive result As above, I must say (and I'm in danger of disagreeing with @Mandamon for the first time since 7th July 1923...) that I don't want to see more of this. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just don't see how more information could improve this, because it's a story told in the pub. Everyone's had one, or two, or seven... and is just talking pish* for the sake of entertainment and getting a reaction. For that reason, I think the ending (last line) could work, but I don't think it does yet. * http://www.firstfoot.com/dictionary/full.html [To put that into context; I'm frae Glasgow.] I just agreed with @industrialistDragon five times. Go kiss your loved ones: I suspect the world is about to end.

Wow, it feels somewhat weird being back on the critiquing trail after so long, but good too. Guards, bring in the first victim… sorry, let’s get on with the constructive criticism I am always excited to read a first submission on here, and so I dip my toe in the what appears to be some Goat excerpts. Sorry these comments are so tardy. I hope they are still useful. I like the title, and I like the idea. I like the opening too, but (you could see that ‘but’ coming, couldn’t you?), I don’t think you need to have it as a footnote; in fact, I think the footnote hurts its effectiveness. I think some readers will skip reading the footnote, or wait until they get to the bottom of the page, and so will lose the flow of the opening. I think the language in the footnote is a little rough, could read better and therefore be clearer, which it does refer to. Also, I tripped over the word ‘safety’. Does Narrator mean safety? My brain thinks ‘to preserve M’s anonymity’, but is it actually the narrator doing it to preserve his own safety? I don’t think it’s clear. (Page 1, Para. 1, Line 1) – I think ‘in to’ should be one word, imho. (P1, P1, L4) – ‘above’ rivers broke my flow, as I didn’t follow the context the first time. (P1, P1, L5) – I think ‘now’ is redundant, because you already have ‘anymore’. (1,2,2) – Why does no one want the goats? I like the tone, which is very conversational. It really suits the piece, and I'm sure that’s what you were going for, given the setting and the context. I think the language could be tidied up a bit; it could flow better. Some of the issue I'm having, I think, is to do with the punctuation. It’s not a big issue: don’t get me wrong. Polishing, if you like. Have you read the piece out loud? That is an excellent tool to understand where you want pauses, and how you want language and narrative to scan. (1,4,2) – When you said ‘roof’ I thought of a building. I didn’t think of the bridge until you mention the goat continuing on its way, further down. (1,7,1) – I think ‘fine-hearted’ should be hyphenated. I think of that as a compound adjective. I know there is bound to be an actual grammatical term for it that I don’t know, but that’s how I think of it. ‘fine hearted fella’, I think, reads like it wants a comma after fine, as in a list, but that’s not the correct context of course. (2,2,2) – I like how you repeat narrative in the dialogue, ‘young goat’ in this case. It’s a comic device that always makes me smile. (2,2,3) – The word ‘hell’ caught me off guard. I'm not at all offended. It just seemed a bit out of character for the troll, based on his dialogue so far. (2,3,1) – Sorry. You’ll have gathered by now that I'm pretty much incapable of not commenting on grammar and line-by-line detail. Tell me to stop if you don’t want to be weight down with this level of comment. Anyway, I believe there should be a comma after ‘Now, as the troll was saying…’ (2,4,1) – Sometimes, I have this vague feeling that when there is a ‘he’, it would be better (clearer) as a ‘Bert’ or sometimes a ‘troll’. Sometimes, vice versa. I think the reading out loud might help with this. When you mention ‘Bert’ here, I had quite forgotten who that was, although you do make it clear. It fits I really nicely with the tone for the narrator to be saying… ‘Then Best said… Then the goat says…’ it’s very much on-tone for the story, I think. It’s maybe just a matter of clarity sometimes, which I think would benefit from a few more ‘Berts’. (2,4,8) – I like the footnote itself, and I think it works better here than the first one did, being so close to the start of the story. This one also though, might work just as well in brackets within the text(?). Also, I think you need a new paragraph when the largest goat comes onto the bridge. (2,4,11) – Hmm. I really don’t understand the purpose of the word ‘bastards’ here. Personally, it feels like it does not fit the tone of the story. You could very easily read this story to a young child, I think, and then there are these swears that, for me, feel quite random. (2,4,12) – ‘bad names’. Seems to me that what the biggest goat is talking about is the reputation of goats in general, but this phrasing sounds like each goat gets its own individual bad name. For example, compare with ‘giving goats a bad name’. (2,4,13) – And there’s the ‘b’ word again. Given that this goat is standing up for his family, it’s odd he would spear in front of his youngster. (3,2,3) – What’s a ‘worktroll’? I don’t quite follow. (3,2,6) – Maybe just a typo, but no period after ‘…bam!’ (3,3,1) – Bert was a troll, not a man, technically. I think you could use any other word, like ‘good chap’, but ‘man’ implies human, imho. (3,3,3) – ‘…send them away, the murderous…’ I’ll mention the benefits of reading aloud again. I think there’s a pretty clear pause (comma) there. Also, for me, the use of the ‘b’ word here is the most appropriate in the story, and serves to underline the punch of the ending. But, this instance loses its impact because of the earlier instances, I think. (3,4,1) – Introducing a new name here doesn’t work for me. I think it’s way too late in the story for that. I know it’s only three pages, but it still has its own arc. Also, I have felt up to now that narrator is talking to me, whereas now I find he’s bending the ear of some Paul fellow. Also, need a comma before ‘Paul’. (3,4,1) – Also, typo – ‘Shut your gob, Paul.’ (3,4,3) – ‘You're always stirring trouble, Paul, you know that?’ – comma and question mark at the end. Same with the next question ‘…didn’t it?’ (3,5,1) – Ahhhhhh, now then. You had me all the way to the end, and I was processing the questioning of the narrator as to whether the story was true or not, or whether it was a tall tale – I thought that was working well. And I was trying to figure out the consequences of a goat having told the narrator, which was a decent twist, but then you lost me with the last line, like it was a twist too many, because I'm still processing the bit about the goat telling him. I’m not saying it can’t work, I'm saying don’t leave me confused at the end, which is what I am. Summary: Well, that was enjoyable, and I thought it was well written. With a couple of passes you could really tidy up the language to make it flow better and you would have a very readable short there. I can’t recommend highly enough reading your piece out loud if you haven’t already. You will be amazed what easy changes you will discover to make it flow more smoothly. Does the framing work? Yes. The conceit of a story told in a pub works very well, for me. There was just enough ‘accent’ and colloquial language (like ‘fella’) to carry that off, without it being over done, I thought. The problem that I had was the ending, but you can tweak that of course. That’s what editing is for!! Nice job for your first submission. I'm looking forward to reading more of your work, and in longer form perhaps. <R>

Heh, well, that's that. Another NaNoWriMo come on gone. Personally, I found it a bit of a slog. Still 'won' and now have 50,237 words of my second Q&M novel to show for it, but much work still to be done, and probably my least inspired experience in what was my 6th consecutive NaNo outing. Will I go again next year? Last couple of yours I've said that I won't, but my competitive steak may not let me back down so easily. I hope that everyone else who was participating made progress and achieved their goals, or at least some progress towards them. Time to get back to work now. Where did I put that grammar stick...?

Pleased that you're enjoying the group in this slightly becalmed state. It's looking clear for Monday so far, although we may have one new member, making a whole 2 submissions!! It is only Wednesday though. If it fills up all of a sudden we can review closer to the time.

Yeah, @ICanDream - what @Mandamon said. Also, I can add you to the list. Copy me in on the PM if you like. And welcome!!

Sorry I didn't comment on the 'last' version. I felt I was just saturated by that point, but I'm looking forward to reading the finished article at my leisure once the dust has settled some more, and I've caught up with my critiques!! Great commitment to getting the story over the line though

Hey all the Nanos! What's occurring out there in Nano-land? @kaellok is within touching distance of the win at 46K - remember not to ease off there though - bring it home. There are still 9 days to go, more than a week to boost that word count and progress our stories. @Shadowmancer, what's up? Don't tell me you're trying to live your life and do Nano at the same time? @Majestic Fox, how are you? You okay? @Wisps of Aether - don't you dare slack off now. On target and a couple (or three) good days from the finishing line!! Keep going, folks. Look forward to breathing again on 1st December

Wow, 'nerdy' certainly does sound like the word

Mushrooms?

Go for it, Masterjack. The Nano-malaise continues. I'd like to apologise personally for not critiquing your submission last week, and also to @WritingAubergine. I'll get to those subs, I promise, but it will be December...