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Askthepizzagal

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  1. Askthepizzagal
    During 2024, I spent about 12 to 18 hours playing mafia with him in almost every game I played for about 6 straight months. If he is guilty, I might not be able to spot it immediately. But, if he is town, I will find out why because he will eventually slip his alignment in a manner I dont think wolf him thinks to fake. In other words, his town game is on a level where he can resemble it, but there are posts he makes as town which put most of his town games out of contention for him being a suspect. I have correctly left him alone in most of the games I've played and eventually found the evidence that explains why. His wolf game is more like.... okay, maybe this is town him? But literally never certain of it, and suspicious of him. Thats the experience I have with my old friend. What I would request, specifically, is that he gets a pass for today due to the above reasoning, how he is interacting with Penguin, doesnt come from guilty him. That restraint is not a thing for wolf him. And its something deep, deep in his personality. It is a combination of he is not confident on his suspects and the more obviously wrong it is to him, the more it makes him concerned because a, it shouldnt be that easy and b, he doesnt trust himself. But its more than that, a layer on top of that is, when people are coming at him or others in a way that is like, wild and off the charts nuts, he wants to be patient and ask questions, not just kill it. Its so core to his personality that I would rate him as never an elim here. On pain of you can blame me for it in postgame if thats wrong, or nuke me the instant he flips elim. It only just happened, because of how I realized how he was reacting to Penguin, and it took me a while to process it in my head, but I swear to all the gods, I am innocent and I firmly believe he is.
  2. Askthepizzagal
    Any chance I can get you to mark down Aeternum as town, there, Kaladfin? Meaning, how open are you to being persuaded. What are my chances?
  3. Askthepizzagal
    I don't think its Aeternum due to how Aeter is basically in full blown resisting the urge to plop down the fist of death mode. I've seen Aeternum aka Cryowinter resist and resist and resist the urge to just punish people for being wrong or have worlds that dont make tons of sense, and he asks questions and really is patient and tackles that whole situation slowly. Other situations where he is a guilty / wolf / elim, he does not react like this. He either doesnt care to make reads, pushes townies on basically nothing, or throws his partners under the bus. This behavior from him comes from him being innocent and not trying to cause a chain of miseliminations resulting from innocents voting each other. I distinctly can cite Thanksgiving Mafia where he was restraining himself for rounds and rounds and rounds of play due to the innocents going not only ultra paranoid, mutually violent, but also rude and nasty to each other, and his reaction was to try to calmly put a stop to it, and not vote people to punish them for it until it got to be too much. That brainwave, right there, I have seen it. That comes from innocent Aeternum who is trying to stop village from eating itself. Doc12 was not a hit. Of the remaining 3 names in your pile-o-suspects, @IcedOutPenguin would you be willing to vote for Booknewt, or Twinstorm, or Striker? Is there any reason you have to vote any of those names? Can you tell me in particular how you feel about Booknewt, who I can't find anyone but me or the dead even discussing?
  4. Askthepizzagal
    IcedoutPenguin I believe this is how I am supposed to unvote.
  5. Askthepizzagal
    As anticipated, The Unknown Order was removed from play too soon to really give helpful reads. But I checked anyway @The Unknown Order, because it's 2 minutes out of my life. It should also be noted, essentially, only innocent people ever interacted with him. Others, who would be the ones responsible for killing him, basically ignored him entirely. He may have been strong player killed and people who were guilty just decided to metagame him out of existence, possibly. So they didn't bother trying to solve him at all, you see. His only surviving read of his two reads is me, as a mild "like". Which as Aeternum would tell you, means jack and squat about my alignment. If I'm guilty, I kill those. (My actual argument is that I would whack an innocent with my vote instead of letting my fate be decided by a guy who voted me all day who was innocent.) So essentially, Seth made a correct call and a wrong one and was otherwise very kind and pleasant to be around. Next, we had @ThatOneWorldhopper, checking carefully. ThatOneWorldhopper Not really any town reads, and also, suspicions for early game behaviors from CD, Penguin, Starseeker, me for the lack of voting. This person was eliminated by vote and the decision to do so was made last minute, so the guilty team didn't really feel the need to silence this person with their murderous powers. I don't think this person was finding lots of guilty persons, he was sort of ignored. Still, he might have mentioned one just by random chance. This is also why I'm not super big on the random voting stage (RVS) because there never was any real basis to it, so it's neither persuasive nor helpful even in worlds when it is right. It also generates a lot of town on town voting which guilties can exploit by hopping on later on, if those random votes stay. So it basically gives the wolf team a fourth vote on a townie a lot, just from the start. That's an in general. I don't think OneWorldHopper really caused any actual problems with their vote on Starseeker, regardless of Seeker's alignment. So don't read any of this as a direct criticism of Hopper, just, these are the downsides to it and why I try to find townies first, then explain why I think my random votes in the remainder are maybe likely hits. That gets us out of random voting stage, it does take time and effort and risk of doing things like town reading a guilty, so its not for everyone. There are always downsides to what you do no matter what you do, in a blind guessing game. ---- Doc12 Ok next person is the beloved @Doc12. Oh my word, friend. So many positive feelings about you not that I am playing favorites. You said things like this: (HUGE wall) I spent the past hour combing through this carefully to make sure I am representing you correctly. In summary: Positive on twinstorm and penguin at first. Suspicious of CD Noting that Striker and Booknewt arent contributing. Some mild suspicion on penguin Did not like the votes for Penguin. Noted Ksauce jump on there. Little suspicious of penguin still. Voted CD Voted Aeternum for creating more wagons. Backed off Aeternum the next day. "I think the thing with ties is that while it is very possible that the elims saw 3 innocents up for death and decided to do nothing" Sussed Hoid for the save on Iced. Wants to know why CD isnt getting votes. Can't decipher IcedPenguin's vote reasoning d2. Works out why the wagons could have formed the way they did d1 with possibilities of penguin innocent and aeternum innocent, and when theyre guilty. i think with hoid flipping villager, that would be reassessed. Pointed out Penguin and coder's reasoning for voting isnt good. Notes how no one is defending Hoid, as a bad sign. "That confuses me. And it confuses me that Ksauce, CD, and Twinstorm apparently do understand the reasoning. I honestly don't feel good voting for Hoid Slayer in this situation." Puts me as town, followed by, in order, Aeternum, Twinstorm, Mehlarin, Coder (listed both as possibly town, and being voted), and Hoid. Puts iced, Ksauce, booknewt, Striker, and Coder as persons he is willing to vote. Notes lack of defense on CD and Hoid both. Ends up thinking Iced might be just very very confused and innocent, as a lean, dislikes the hoid suspicion. --------------- Also of interest to me is how people were reacting to Doc12 on the day he was murdered. Booknewt had no lean on Doc12 start of day 2, which I don't understand. This was followed with suspicion on Doc12 at least. Twin had Doc as town. Iced sheeped this reasoning from Doc and then voted Doc: Twin reacted thusly Aeternum reacted This is not authoritative or exhaustive, I just think wolves planning out their murders will either have doc12 as a town read, or theyre going to have doc12 as someone they don't discuss at all, same as The Unknown Order the previous day. This is a large analysis, so I don't want to include Hoid in it, but I will look over Hoid as well when I get a minute.
  6. Askthepizzagal
    Greebas nudged someone who wasn't even there. See that? Maybe there is a good version of what you were trying to do. One that involves less suffering and enslavement of souls and binding of corpses to forbidden blood magic and other such rubbish. I'm genuinely remorseful. Sometimes trial and error leads to error. All part of the scientific method. Yet perhaps the dead could still be of some use to us. Don't you start with that nonsense again. In a different manner than before. Instead of telling them what to do, we could listen to what they say. -more- A voice within Greebas began chanting ancient arcane words of power and the sky began to blacken around Greebas, a dark shroud which began to burn away all living things in a small circle around his body. Four of the fallen appeared before Greebas in the form of shadow. "SPEAK, YE DEPARTED. TELL YOUR OVERLORD, NYBBETH MASTER OF DEATH, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE GUILT OR INNOCENCE OF THOSE GATHERED TODAY." Oh not this. Greebas doesn't want it, leave them alone, Obdilaurd, you wicked old fool. They don't know any better than we do. What do you want them to do, throw darts? Greebas asked the living what their thoughts were, you leave those innocent people to rest and let them rest.
  7. Askthepizzagal
    Thank you again, Starseeker. Greebas appreciates your counsel and advice. I think you might find that eternal life you seek. Mayhaps one more true and just than my own. -more- Those guilty who might seek to terminate Greebas today, need not interact or think too deeply, and may simply mark Greebas down as innocent and ignore him The path of least resistance. Those who are innocent, don't know with absolute certainty that Greebas is, and have no plans of killing him by either means, actually have to work with Greebas in a manner that is more than perfunctory. The fact that starseeker isn't just sidestepping Greebas and is still talking to him means something. Maybe not a lot, but more than several have done.
  8. Askthepizzagal
    (I checked the timestamps) At everyone in general: On my part, I am going to be resting as 2am to 6am is not real sleep. I need to have all my mental faculties available to me for tonight. I have left questions for you and also, it's not very hard to find how or why I am leaning people innocent or guilty, so basically, I am not looking for rich people advisors. I don't need yes-men and women and they/thems. When I'm wrong here your best way to be a good teammate to me is to tell me on whom I am guessing wrong and why that guess is wrong, with some evidence why it is wrong. If you don't think deeply about the game, don't try, skate to tomorrow, and also the result of your votes all game is bad, that is the final point in time where I can afford to be patient, so we either fight hard now together as a team, or likely fade and fall apart at the final stand due to that mistrust. All optional, of course. Random guess point and click and voting based on gut and not being here all day is entirely valid and I am not criticizing it, I am just explaining why it's hard to trust if it also gives poor results. That's how elims hide their guilt, in my view.
  9. Askthepizzagal
    IcedOutPenguin I am placing this vote with intent to unvote it, just so you're aware. Why- because I need people to be active and talk to me, and each other, and solve cooperatively and collaboratively and answer questions. @IcedOutPenguin This has been your solve, so far: Askthepizzaguy, which... I know is wrong. If I were elim, I probably don't let myself dangle on day one from your own perspective. Elaboration on this topic since I'm the only one not flipped and proven innocent to everyone else. Hoid, yesterday. Then, doc12. Then back to hoid. All of those guesses were wrong, and I didn't really ever follow why you believed those were correct guesses. I squinted and best I could even fathom was you believed the game was being run by elim folks. And were just convinced they were all out to get you. You continually vote only people I think or know are innocent. It's not always the case that someone who does this is guilty. But, for me to find you innocent here, I have to understand how you ever get there on those names and conclude they have to be guilty. So far, your basis for it seems to be, if someone appears innocent in any way, it's fake. How do you find innocent people or determine who is guilty if that is your method? Do you normally play this way, as an innocent person, or is it different for this game? Are you okay with answering one-liner questions like that and looking at worlds where you're wrong about twin and aeternum? Are you okay with discussing names like Coder, Booknewt, Ksauce, Strider, and so forth? Correct me if I am wrong but those are big blank spaces on your solve sheet right now, any thoughts? Also, if you could hard claim being an innocent as opposed to the town role that blocks stuff, it would be helpful. I'm being calm, patient, and transparent about these topics, I am asking you not to overreact to them if youre innocent, and just work the problem with me. I am still here willing to look at worlds where you're innocent, but, 1. me 2. hoid 3. doc 4. twin and/or aeternum Doesn't feel like hits to me. So if you're innocent AND I am correct about that, or, you're innocent and YOU'RE correct about that, we need to talk. I can cut down the number of words to make it go more smoothly but that's 2 days of results I don't think are particularly innocent from you, and I'm willing to still look at worlds where you are, just in case-ies. -------------------- edit for doubleposting rules @CoderDrag0n8 So what you're saying is... CD's nuts?
  10. Askthepizzagal
    Final 9, we guaranteed can misfire today and still be okay, technically. Something to take into account is the reads of the deceased, particularly those who were murdered. Seth didnt have a lot of reads but one incorrect one on WorldHopper. I will check again. WorldHopper himself did also have reads, albeit sorta random guesses. Doc12 was obvious villager and had reads. Hoid also had reads. Something else to take into account is we likely have another town PR out there, if I remember the setup notes correctly. @KelsierApologist your reminder to come and play, read up, and consider everything that has happened. @Booknewt Can you describe why you chose Hoid over Penguin?
  11. Askthepizzagal
    I am a stinker like that.
  12. Askthepizzagal
    Cycle ends in just over 1 hour. Cycle ends in just over 1 hour. *party in the club* Also, it has been a genuine pleasure meeting all of you. Greebas loves you all! Now go away so Greebas can rest, and keep your voices down. Perhaps we will meet again on the other side. If things go poorly, don't give up, use the information you've gained to complete the task. Each time someone is innocent, that's more information to solve with. Do not fear death, fear a life not well-lived.
  13. Askthepizzagal
    You guys are gonna hate this. I am going to leave it tied. @Booknewt (or Kelsier, if they show) needs to break the tie herself, or one of you on one of the wagons can unvote to let the other wagon succeed. Why? Because you don't need my vote here to resolve my alignment but you probably need Book's vote to resolve hers. @Booknewt or @KelsierApologist your call.
  14. Askthepizzagal
    @IcedOutPenguin I don't think doc is a hit right now. Will you be voting Hoid here, or someone else?
  15. Askthepizzagal
    Final 11 players, Day 2 Colored reads list inside, to avoid confusing the host with the bold and coloring. Note- the town read on Aeternum isn't really critically examined by me as of yet. Also, I like Kelsier a whole, whole lot based on day 1, its just that "gravity" has an effect, if you don't show up, you go down each day. So if things go bad, reassess. Pretty much every time you miss with your guesses, re-assess everyone in your town pile and make sure they still belong there. Striker is probably way too high on this list; what I suggest is that if the bottom 3 names aren't wolves, or if the aren't all wolves, you check striker later. I just seriously wonder if Striker deserves death, or a free pass for slanking. It's 50 50 and I lean being pass-giving but really, Striker needs to be dunking an elim today or tomorrow or its really rough times defending him on the near nothing he's given, seemingly deliberately. I am bad at finding guilty persons who don't post. Following my principles, this slot needs more time to grow a read, and make an impact on the game. Please do not abuse my generosity in that regard and don't forget about this person if the game gets very hard. Purple is like a barely not-today pass. I can't strongly defend them, meaning. If theyre town, the guilty kinda have to be in my green pile or the bottom pile, they have to be somewhere, so. In the bottom 3, I am not fully "getting" the worldview. I've tried to put myself in those shoes and see it. I also don't think all three flip elim. That seems beyond optimistic and I also wouldn't be surprised if any name flipped innocent. Just.... probably need to look here, in this group of 3, even a little bit, before I go elsewhere. I think Hoid or Iced should flip today to check into that world, and if that's wrong, think about who is not villagery enough and also looks actually guilty enough to flip the next day. Note, if I die, my reads can be garbage, I'm just universally townread and that can be the real reason I died. Or, just my top townreads can be good. or, its oppressive to have to deal with me every day when youre guilty, any of the above. About 45 mins prior to end of day 1 end of day 1 Current as of this writing, D2 Here are important questions that you can have answers to based on today's flip: Look at the booknewt+Kaladins wagon on Penguin. If Penguin is guilty, what does that say about book and Kaladins? If Penguin is innocent, what does that say about Book, Kaladins, and also, Hoid Slayer voting in a panic to save Penguin, who obviously isn't his elim buddy in that world? What if the save was on someone else? (meaning, if Hoid were guilty) What if Hoid flips today and is innocent? What does that imply about where the wolves have to be? Probably doesn't constrain it too much except that I'm not one of them. @Aeternum Factoring in a possible self preservation vote by Penguin, I probably counter-vote that here. You and the folks not voting need to decide between I think. I don't favor a CFD onto other names. I need to sleep, badly, it is 1:30 am here and I need to be up all day tomorrow. Please acknowledge the above analysis. I know you don't do walls, but regardless what happens today, you understand my process of, this absolutely answers questions about day 1. How, the info that is revealed no matter which name flips, and what alignment, is probably vital to get here, and I am not sure it can be gotten simply by talking it out anymore, especially not in the time remaining today. As to the explanation why I need a flip there instead of just asking more questions. Make sense? It's not actually that hard or a lot to read, its just 3 wagon analyses with color coding, where blue is clear, green is town reads, purple is where I would look when the bottom names are a bust, and no color is folks I need to know their alignment to solve the game.
  16. Askthepizzagal
    @KelsierApologist @Booknewt I would prefer if you weigh in now.
  17. Askthepizzagal
    Ok, thanks kaladins. Also would love more starseeker RP if you have some.
  18. Askthepizzagal
    Doc12, if you're a guilty, I want you to know that I find it very difficult to represent the particular thought you just had, regarding how you're actively appreciative of me reaching out to folks who are suspecting you and asking them to walk through that world and also, look at worlds where youre guilty. The town read, is too easy. That other thought is kinda difficult to pull out of a completely false worldview and also motivation. That's more impressive than faking a townie generally high wim and activity role all game so far, and also, more impressive than reading me town or pocketing me. I dont know that a guilty pulls out that particular card just then. Thats a thought that comes from someone trying to solve a mystery and wolves have no such mystery to solve. TLDR for folks who hate my wordiness, I think Doc is town for this reason. Ok, its a narrow needle to thread to come up with that brainwave when he's actually guilty, so I think he's a miss and shouldnt be elimmed today. That said, I think Doc can be right on Penguin, their pushes here read extremely weird in a good way, like, I dont know if a wolf does all that. If Doc is town, and Penguin were a wolf, going directly from me, to Hoid!town, to doc!town as suspects is a really bold and creative choice. There is also something intrinsically consistent about the approach, like, he's going after the big loud talkers that might actually be legitimately confusing him and from his perspective, maybe the wolves control the game, so he's looking for the exact right name in those names? I can buy that happened.
  19. Askthepizzagal
    I'm unfortunately using my gut right now, so please forgive me. But Twin doesn't feel particularly guilty to me right now, despite me having them light town, then I dunno, my gut is putting them back in okay tier here. I feel like I've unduly lumped them into a group of people Im struggling on where they really arent doing anything wrong, and are being here interacting and solving enough. It's just not fully registering in my brain so I am having difficulty trusting it because even if theyre active, their activity feels quiet in terms of tone, so it doesnt stick out or ruffle feathers, but that doesnt make it guilty behavior. To explain the turbulent gut read as clearly as I can.
  20. Askthepizzagal
    I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on anything yet. I appreciate that you're reaching out and trying to work with me and laying out what you think. Can you get me there on Ksauce in particular? I am having trouble finding why theyre town. Why do you have them town? Sell me on it, if you think strongly about it. Or even if you don't, why you have them as town at all, can help me read both you and them at the same time. My guess would be somewhere in the middle of this, (even if I were to mark you town as town and also doc as elim, to explore that world) I don't know that the entire elim team is in that latter pile for sure. 2 in one, one in the other, i would imagine. Even could be the case if Doc is town, you might have put the elims in the right pile, mostly. I don't have a reason why your guess cannot be correct as the suspect pile being 3/3 contained within that pile. I have town reads on Aeternum with an admitted bias that I feel I could read him over time, he's my friend, but that doesn't mean I actually catch him right away when he's guilty. I feel as though Doc, if he is town, losing him here, would be quite devastating. If he's elim, devastating the other way, so it's one of those calls that has to be right. Twin, Striker, Booknewt, and Ksauce for me, are hovering around null and some of them read like theyre just trying to get to the next round without kicking up a fuss or interacting with me too much. I don't thiiiink Booknewt is wolf anymore but I also can't shield them specifically? Give them a day pass maybe, if you think you can agree on the day pass anyway. I generally find myself trusting, and perhaps too much, the following- I generally dislike sneaking to the next round over and over without causing a fuss. For all I disagreed with Hoid's solve, and yours, I can't deny that you put those opinions out there to be judged for them. This is my feedback. @IcedOutPenguin
  21. Askthepizzagal
    I take two assumptions, that you are town, and that he is an Elim, as this culture calls it. Can you go back to day one and look for the things he said, and explain which bits you think come from an Elim? For example, the innocent people he is pushing, who are their names? Do you have suggestions for who his partners would be? This is an open ended question, and it really doesn't matter to me whether youre right about his alignment or not- what I'd be looking for is for you to explore that world, and fill in what you think is most likely to be true, with those assumptions. Also, evidence that shows this can be the case. Mainly, who are the innocents he is trying to kill, would be helpful. And then, what I would do is look and see if that's likely to be true, that the persons he is pushing are all innocent. If that helps you express your viewpoint and make it more persuasive when it's correct, and also, helps people read your alignment even if it weren't. Sometimes a guess with deeper thoughts comes from town whether its right or wrong, so the depth is what I'd be looking for, personally. It's a hard ask to vote for someone else I think could be a town leader today, but if you were to try to aim for that outcome, this would be the path of doing so, in order for me personally to get there in the hours remaining. Also really huge for me is who you think is most likely to be town and why, because that sort of narrows the pool and makes the guess otherwise more likely in general, if you care to name innocents as well
  22. Askthepizzagal
    @Doc12 This is the thought dump Ive been working on. So here are my current snapshot thoughts. I think Striker EZ slot is town, just based on a read of the game state, even in worlds where wolves were, and weren't, under pressure yesterday. If they show up and start being super wolfy, ok, rescind. That's a fancy guess, the same kind of fancy guess I made to differentiate the alignments of two inactive players in a game once, and it was right, due to how others were acting. I don't require anyone to sheep my legacy on that, it's just my real thought. Booknewt, I would press into more, but not today. I think she may need more flips, I think she is having real trouble sorting her very wide neutral list, I cannot towncore her, but I also don't have a reason to think she is a wolf after how she reacted so far. So call that neutral leaning positive, if you have cause to go there, fine. I believe Aeternum is town. Why? Isn't that too easy? Yes. But I also think Aeternum wolf would be happy to silence me either way, via the vote yesterday or the murder. And I think his solving posts outside of that are good. Is that clearing? No, but you need a wolf case that makes sense, imo. I still think Kelsier reads town, despite their absence. Starseeker and Kaladfin are on the borderline, but, I think if they can press a wolf to death, that's a decent sign. I just worry I miscleared here, because of the RP and coasting from starseeker. They aren't interacting very deeply. @KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren It's possible my memory is just faulty, I'm extremely tired, please don't take that as a shot at you if its a mischaracterization, I just cant remember anything youve done besides your very well done entry roleplay. I also think the super easy world where like, hoid and cd and penguin are all wolves is... even more too simple a world to be likely very true. That's possible but their reactions to that and everything afterward felt all wrong for that world. Don't they just continue resisting and dunking on me if so? I don't know where to go, I'm more like, suggesting where not to go, and hoping I am correct about it. That's the full thought dump. And you, you can be town for destroying all the wolves and reconsidered when you havent done so, later, imo. If that's fair. Yeah, shouldn't be. It should also be easy to just explain one's POV and process when you're innocent, but, it's not always the case. Moving these quote boxes around is very difficult.
  23. Askthepizzagal
    The gimmick with having a wide tie between lots of folks at 1 vote and a few people at 2 votes, while not an intended strategy by me, I kept not breaking the tie yesterday because it would be good for game state info. However, that ceases to be particularly useful; the information was already gained yesterday, whatever use it may be, as to what happens when those candidates are tied or under pressure. So I would recommend not tying the round today and making a decisive vote on the person you think is most likely to be a wolf, not someone you think is a townie struggling or a wolfy townie. Is my feedback on that, doc.
  24. Askthepizzagal
    Mass confusion is already here, if the wolves aren't dead on obvious. So it's not needed in many of the possible worlds.
  25. Askthepizzagal
    It's one of 3 likely choices. Wolves can be looking for a PR or they can just silence widely townread man, or they can hit other town leader man. If they don't know who PR is, I'm probably the single best shot.
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